If you’re interested in, you should take this survey.


P.S. If you’re a regular reader of this blog (for which I thank you) you would remember that some of these ideas were discussed in this post about a month after There closed. This is not to say that There2 would be what was discussed in this post (particularly the bits about exposing real names to the public), but to illustrate that we’ve been thinking about this a long time.

P.S.S. As of 11:18 MDT on Friday, April 8th, we’ve had 533 people complete the survey.

P.S.S.S. As of 19:33 MDT on Friday, April 8th, we’ve had 790 people complete the survey.

P.S.S.S.S. Some silly persons are saying Virtual Congress is closed because they can’t get to it. Nothing could be further from the truth. Truth be told, Virtual Congress and Makena got tired of tracking down and booting imposters, so we’ve just made it harder for them and easier for the real users to get to it.

P.S.S.S.S.S. Here are the results as of 13:02 MDT on Sunday, April 10, 2011:

P.S.S.S.S.S.S. I wanted to add one thing here. When we decide what to do, I intend to post the actual financial #s we used to make the decision, including things like aggregate salaries, benefits, cloud costs, fees, etc, etc, so you can see what it takes to run this service in California. You won’t get to argue about salaries and benefits: I’m not getting paid, and people we do pay are being paid correctly for their positions. But you’ll see what we use to make this decision.

IF we re-open, I promise I’ll do this every month, too. I don’t want people to think for a second that we’re rakin’ in the dough here.

P.S.S.S.S.S.S.S. Numbers as of 04/12/2011 at 11:00 MDT

P.S.S.S.S.S.S.S. Numbers as of 04/15/2011 at 07:30 MDT

We’ve decided to do a mass mailing and have extracted the millions of addresses we’re going to have to email to (some with some truly exciting explorations of profanity in domain names). We can’t (or won’t) be using a commercial service to do the mailing due to cost, but will write a quick script this weekend and use Amazon SES or something.

P.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S. There’s a very foolish person out there claiming I’m not the CEO of Makena / There. Of course, they’re ignoring the fact this blog has existed before There ever closed, and includes screen shots and images which couldn’t have come from anywhere else.

I assure you all I’m the real thing here, and I feel kind of silly even responding to these rantings, but there you are.

P.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S.S. There were 42 hits to this page and the survey referred from yesterday. That’s actually less than the hits we got from Thumdar and YowNow (yes, we still get hits from there, both directly and from their “clandestine” methods), and Onverse. I hope we get more today, but unfortunately the home page doesn’t get much traffic these days. Maybe if I somehow put links to Trump’s presidential bid on there…hmmm…

  1. #1 by JS on 2011.05.19 - 11:30 pm

    I guess you saw that video above and then likely contacted them and threatened a lawsuit because I went to and it wasn’t there anymore. I am sure you wouldn’t want another environment with that name. That is for sure.

  2. #2 by JS on 2011.05.19 - 3:24 pm

    Hey maybe in this inside info area we can also get some interesting little tid-bits and morsels whatever that means on the engineering stuff. Today our guys worked on the login page. It is looking good. Things are going well. But then again that might be more than you want to tell. Hey what about doing a reality show with your company? Called Virtual World Crazy where we see the trials and tribulations of keeping a virtual world alive. Then scenes will cut to some inworld drama. Maybe a few good arguments. A buggy race or two. Get the cameras rolling and start editing now. Send in your demo to a couple cable network people.

  3. #3 by JS on 2011.05.19 - 12:08 pm

    All these clowns talking about free. They still want it free. Of course they want it free because they are children without a dime, nicotine addicted so they can only afford their dirty cigarettes. Drug addicted. Who knows. Get real about free. Have you been under a rock? Don’t you know that business model failed and they have brainstormed a way to hopefully get this going at a profit? What else do you want free in life? Everyone wants everything free. I am sure if Michael Wilson was a billionaire he would make it free because that is the kind of guy he is. I would do it too. I would pay engineers to keep developing it. Spend thousands to publicize it all at a loss. Why not I have nothing better to do with my billions of dollars. It would just be a fun virtual environment project. An experiment. I would lose millions. So what I enjoy it. But guess what cry babies this place isn’t free so get used to it. They tried it free but you tight wads didn’t buy enough tbucks and only put your portazones out for 30 minutes at a time because you were trying to save your dirty money for your local indian casino to throw down the tubes.

    So put your money where your mouth is and pay the lousy 10 bucks a month. Sure I was a beggar and hoping for 6.95 but when I thought about it 10 dollars is what? 33 cents a day? Think about it. Make yourself a fake coin slot next to your pc when There comes back. Put 33 cents in and BOOM you are into for 24 hours. That is a good deal if you go have some fun. Drive around some buggies. Talk to people. Enjoy your virtual life. So quit crying and get your priorities straight.

    • #4 by Infamous on 2011.07.13 - 1:26 am

      “What else do you want free in life?”
      A Alienware M17x Would be nice.

  4. #5 by Warren on 2011.05.15 - 3:41 am


    If I can have There back, I would pay 20 bucks a month on the 6 month plan. 10.00 is better. Thanks.

  5. #6 by Helper_Suzanne on 2011.05.13 - 6:43 pm

    Mr Wilson

    Would love to see THERE back, would love to be back. Contact me if there is anything I can do to help.

  6. #7 by Jason Leng on 2011.05.12 - 2:20 pm

    Never got to do the survey but – I’m sure I would pay $10 every now and then to catch up with friends on there and enjoy the boarding, monster trucks n harleys etc used to love hangin our at the bar in zephyr with mates n listenin to tunes whlie having a drink at home. Also enjoyed the card games and events. Well lots of things let all admit it There was the best 3d chat program out THERE 😉

    (2003 member of There)

  7. #8 by rift private server on 2011.05.12 - 10:36 am

    OMG i can’t wait for Rift to get out of beta tomorrow :0

  8. #9 by Kerry Omar on 2011.05.12 - 8:41 am

    MW I think you ought to go over the survey again and find who the 18 year olds are who are saying no to paying just to be mean. Take into consideration that there are a group of under 18 people that if they can’t be in the game they will ruin it for the rest of us. They can’t think in the future self that may want to play the game they are basically in the now zone of thinking and being revengeful. The If-I-can’t-play-then-no-one-can frame of mind. They can’t afford to play so they vote no. We who have jobs and can pay and maybe some who are too busy to read their emails are still willing to pay but have not yet taken the survey. The kids that don’t have jobs and now school is out have too much time on their hands so of course they know about the survey. Once there opens the word will spread like wild fire. Everyone who wants there to open tell your there friends who have money to take the survey and say yes to paying so there will open again. And please those who are 17 or close to 18 vote yes because some day you will have a job.

  9. #10 by bebe bodycon on 2011.05.10 - 6:21 am

    Solved it, I was missing a ‘/’ in my http://. Thanks!

  10. #11 by VVVVVV on 2011.05.09 - 1:45 am

    Is this idea dead??? No post in days.

  11. #13 by VVVVVV on 2011.05.07 - 3:01 pm

    Can we play already geez,lol.

  12. #14 by bebe bodycon on 2011.05.07 - 11:16 am

    Hey, tried adding your site to google reader and it shows an error message, any idea?

  13. #15 by Okalnix on 2011.05.07 - 3:57 am

    I Be Back.
    Alway’s wanted to say that just befor the upplug of
    Its great to hear that There is comming back.
    If needed to pay a mouth pay its fine with that.
    Most online games have that, so go re opening there.
    For me I have learn english and a littlke typing to .
    So voice talke is for me a good thing if there is also have that still.
    If there indeed comming back online I be there to.
    And hopping to do a lott events on Dune vally,I like to race buggy and events.

    Just wanted to let you know also people of my country Netherlands wanted to have back.

    Thanks for reading this
    Greeting form Netherlands.

  14. #16 by Free There on 2011.05.06 - 3:26 am

    Make it free for all and you’ll certainly get rich.

  15. #17 by on 2011.05.06 - 3:25 am

    I’d go for $10 / month.
    but prefer it to be free. I think will be a potential replacement of facebook if only you are willing to invest time and effort to expose it to the public.

    • #18 by rachel on 2011.05.07 - 5:40 am

      I agree on both counts; There should be free and it can (and should) be the next facebook. I don’t understand how all these other inferior and limited virtual worlds are up and running and either making money or have investment funds but There couldn’t/doesn’t. Michael, count me in as helping to make this happen. I have many ideas that I would be happy to send to you by email should you be interested.

  16. #19 by Wolfdemon on 2011.05.05 - 7:27 pm

    Ah, um I mean to reopen the new There2. I sure do miss hoverboarding at Top of the World! ^^

  17. #20 by Wolfdemon on 2011.05.05 - 7:20 pm

    Wow, I must say I was extremely surprised to recieve and email about the possibility of reopening. I am very excited to hear that’s even being considered and I would without a doubt be happy to pay a monthly fee to keep open again. I’ve missed it very much and there really is no other Virtual World that remotely compares to what was. So, anyone and everyone that has been a fan of and wants it to reopen I urge you all to vote to pay to play so that we can re-enter what we considered our virtual home once again.

  18. #21 by dragonpimp on 2011.05.03 - 3:02 pm

    Hey MW, Just wanted to wish you luck on reopening There! I miss it alot, See you all soon!

  19. #22 by Kumar Sidoo on 2011.05.01 - 9:57 am

    Hey Michael, I would like to get a Beta Account I was Demmetri on There (Yes I had a name without characters or numbers) I do have the time to do the testing etc. If you were looking for them just email me ( Thanks I hope you take up that offer. 🙂

  20. #23 by Truck on 2011.05.01 - 7:27 am

    Thank you M.W. i recived the notice of the survey on 4 of my emails 2 day. i will not redo the survey to me it would be stuffing the balet box sence i did it last month. but it was great to recive it. i just hope people do the same and not give a nasty responce over and over! I tryed the rest now i want to play the best!!

  21. #24 by Playstation3 on 2011.05.01 - 4:56 am

    Good luck MW, i hope you can get open and not just make it profitable but make it alot of money from it. You really deserve it, its a wonderful system.

  22. #25 by Baby_Me on 2011.04.30 - 3:45 pm

    When there closed it was so boring around. Now today it gets boring once in a while and is still a missing part of my daily living. lol. Cant wait to be able to log in and ride my buggies.

  23. #26 by ALBIS on 2011.04.30 - 8:08 am

    how many the life time accounts have to pay

  24. #27 by Grimm on 2011.04.29 - 10:10 am

    Wow…. a dark part of my life just got a little bit brighter!

    I’d like to take this opportunity to offer my services to you, Mr Wilson, for free, in any way I am able. There was a real income generator for myself, as well as many of the other superbly talented designers I had the honor of knowing during my time in world. That opportunity in itself is enough to offset the personal costs to me of whatever you might need done. You have my portfolio in your backup, and hopefully my artistic skill level is on par with what you might need to get things going again. Please consider my offer 🙂 I’m willing to sign whatever paperwork or contracts you need signed to make sure I keep my word 🙂

    On another note –

    For the people who are having issues understanding the costs of running a business like this, consider the following:

    You are going to need an art team, and a programming team, and a web team in the talent pool. The smallest acceptable amount of people for each of those teams, is let’s say, two.
    You’re also going to need to have an accountant – at least one – to handle payroll, bills, accounts receivable etc. One person would be overworked, but could JUST do it.

    Here’s how much JUST those people would cost you, as an owner:

    Accountant II – 42,450
    Graphic Artist – 35,693 x2 = 71,386
    Web Designer II – 37,080 x2 = 74,160
    Applications Programmer – 55,635 x2 = 111,270

    Bringing the total yearly cost for this TINY and UNDERPAID team (the salaries quoted are from, and represent the lowest 10% of the curve) to $299,266, or $21,938.83 per month.

    And that’s just the cost of paying your employees. There are also costs for providing office space, electric bills and other utilities, hardware costs for the workstations these employees will use, software licensing fees from companies like Adobe and Discrete, the list goes on. My best guess for something like this to succeed – and just barely at that, would be in the 50K to 75K per month range, if EVERY possible corner was cut. And if you didn’t pay yourself.

    I’m thinking that to be profitable with a skeleton crew like that, There would need in the neighborhood of 10,000 paying monthly users at $10 each. I know MW can’t say one way or the other that I’m right, but I’m pretty sure I’m at least in the ballpark.

    If it makes any difference, I’d be willing to pay at least $30 a month. Maybe more. It would definitely be worth it to me as a developer to get this place re-opened 🙂

    • #28 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.29 - 10:36 am

      There is good news and bad news about your numbers.

      The good news is that you overestimated the size of the skeleton .

      The bad news is that you’ve underestimated the salaries. I might be able to get those number offshore, but here? In California? No way :-(. And that’s not counting the fact the I hear some new Virtual Worlds are paying for Scholarships, Medical care for all families (both immediate and extended), clone bodies for organ donation, physiatrics care, personal trainers, personal cleanse counselors, dog whisperers, martial arts training, and tickets to the royal wedding.

      Also, we still have all our old licenses, so we don’t pay for those (even if we did, that’s cap-ex and not ongoing expense, and hardly worth quoting).

      But we’re both right. It doesn’t cost $2000/month to run There ;-).

      • #29 by Islander on 2011.04.29 - 11:03 am

        So what costs more? Grimms overestimated skeleton and underestimated salary prediction or the real thing????

      • #30 by Grimm on 2011.04.29 - 11:09 am

        I know I underestimated the salaries 😉 As I said, I took what the bottom 10% of the payscale was, on the average, in the US, and used those numbers for as conservative an estimate as I could get. Hopefully more people will be able to see now how very expensive a virtual world is to run.

        And my offer still stands 😉

      • #31 by DavyRocket on 2011.04.30 - 12:56 pm

        I am with Grimm on this one. I am willing to donate my service’s aswell. Though 35k a year would work for me aswell 😉 And this site is really becoming slow
        loading for me. I also recieved the email ”’yay.

      • #32 by Orielle on 2011.04.30 - 7:00 pm

        The Style of There by Don Carson – Sr. Art Director

        Those interested in making things in the style of There should really check out Don Carson’s work. 😛

      • #33 by Mercuria on 2011.05.01 - 5:01 am

        Oh gosh, I’d be willing to work for peanuts just to see There open again.

        I don’t need a dog whisperer either!

  25. #34 by Aveena There on 2011.04.25 - 12:32 pm

    Happy Easter MW. Hope you had a great one. I hoping There will rise again like, well not Jesus, that would be sacrilegious, but like the phoenix. I do appreciate all the patience you have shown in answering these questions. Keeping fingers crossed. Av 🙂

  26. #35 by ericman1967 on 2011.04.24 - 4:27 pm

    I have a family with 3 accounts to pay for,,have you thought of family packs,multiple account packs,or packs that come with there bux,I realy want there back ,i was on for 2 years before shutdown ,and was a guide(oh will there be guides?) but i cant see myself buying monthly fees for three accounts and buying there bux also.(i would if i had the money)But if you havent thought of pack deals ,spin it around you budget and see if it makes sense to you!

  27. #36 by Secrets of Vonira on 2011.04.24 - 11:11 am

    1337 comments as of now. Let us keep it that way.

  28. #37 by lionsheart on 2011.04.24 - 7:48 am

    Dear Mr W ( Mr White mouse) , as you said you made a back up for there as in there 2, does this mean you are going to
    procede with the experiment?………
    You also said the answer is 42 which is the answer to everything (as like the plant pot already knew), this means we have
    been here before probably 42 times…lol…
    So my question to the mice is, will the experiment be the same or will you want to leave something out this time round?

    How many brains does it take to feed the machine?….


  29. #38 by Mademoiselle Fifi on 2011.04.22 - 4:16 pm

    Very cool video Jordan….i wish there was one on the site, along with a members testimonials, to show new potential members, how great There is.

  30. #39 by Jael on 2011.04.22 - 1:25 pm

    This is pretty exciting and I took the survey. I want to point out that I did not see any ThereMail in my email. There just happened to pop in my head this afternoon and I decided to visit the site. With as much spam as people get nowadays as well as a lot of email addresses likely having gone inactive, I’m sure there are still a lot of people who don’t know about this survey, making the data somewhat unreliable. Hopefully those who are still in touch with old There friends have passed the word along and encouraged them to take the survey.

    Despite being a beta lifetime member I would also most definitely sign up for a 6-month/1-yr paid subscription to support the project.

    Thank you for making this much of an effort!

  31. #40 by drfire on 2011.04.22 - 12:48 pm

    holy crap.this is awesome! we will have our stuff back?

  32. #41 by Mercuria on 2011.04.22 - 6:24 am

    I just want to say that I hope and pray that enough people will be willing to pay a monthly fee for There to re-open. I hope that we have thousands of people who love There enough to commit to this.
    I would love to develop for There again. The program was great, I enjoyed making things for There way better than any other place.
    When There closed it was like losing a home. I want to go home again. 🙂
    Thank you MW for even considering this!!!

  33. #42 by kevinf on 2011.04.22 - 4:42 am

    I honestly cannot believe the amount out outcry over a stipulation that will note: DD/MM/YY… Allowing you to anonymously input whatever you want…. The game is 18+ only for legal reasons, in case something does happen. I can assure you with certainty, will not ask for identification as part of the registration process. . . . . (DISCLAIMER: Evenstupider corp does not endorse falsifying information)

  34. #43 by Chris on 2011.04.22 - 2:53 am


    Oh sorry, I have another question? When you decide you can financially afford it, will it come out straight away and open, then updates will be included as time goes on? Or will we have to wait a lengthly period of time before There.com2 comes out? I’m not asking for a release date or if it will be coming out. I just wonder how long you believe it will take for it to release AFTER or IF you have decided it will be financially equal or profitable?

  35. #44 by Chris on 2011.04.22 - 2:44 am

    If you bring out again, I’ll love you forever! ^-^ If you need any help just give a yell!

  36. #45 by Jordan on 2011.04.22 - 2:35 am I kinda got bored and made this, I doubt it will help much, but anything is helpful. :3

  37. #46 by SugarL on 2011.04.20 - 3:31 pm

    I just want to say tyvm Mr. Wilson for even considering opening back up I can not tell you enough how much just the shear freedom and the many toys we had to enjoy has been greatly missed. I have tried maybe all of the virtual worlds that have been around and have popped up but I must say that There along with vmtv ARE BY FAR the best worlds at people being able to be free and actually have fun. I do hope maybe you’ll consider bringing back the sparkles but just knowing There may be open soon and the mountains will be there is great.

    • #47 by OdileS AKA MmeOdile on 2011.04.20 - 4:36 pm

      What do you mean when you talk about the sparkles? TY 🙂

  38. #48 by Mike on 2011.04.20 - 10:35 am

    I got really excited when I went on There’s website to check and see if by some miracle it had re-opened. I went here directly afterwards. As soon as I read that you would be making 18+ I died a little bit on the inside. Could you make the age limit lower, like 15+? I honestly don’t think griefing would be a problem. Could you maybe make the minors go through a maturity test or try to develop an anti-griefing system. I’m not sure how someone would be able to grief you if you put them on ignore and put up your forcefield. If you were constantly being grieifing because you left your forcefield off when you went AFK or you just didnt want to put it on, wouldnt that be that person’s fault and they could fix it? I read in the comments about protecting the minors from pedophiles too. Could you put a panic button in the client for minors and they could submit a report. Secondlife had their own Teen Grid and they were perfectly fine. SecondLife moved the Teen Grid over to the Main Grid! SecondLife has come up with ways to protect minors and There was very well developed, so I think this wouldnt be a problem to implement security features. I have my own debit card for my Google Merchant account because I develop Android Applications, so I do show a level of maturity.
    Come on at least try to let us on There?


    • #49 by Mike on 2011.04.20 - 10:37 am

      I would be willing to pay a monthly subscription and and pay in advance. I’m sure other minors would too.

      • #50 by José on 2011.04.20 - 12:19 pm

        he already said that would be too expensive sorry but no itl be 18+ check the FAQ list

  39. #51 by Kev on 2011.04.20 - 8:21 am

    Hey MW, I’m just wondering IF There does reopen, will there finally be a Mac OSX version?

  40. #53 by NurseJay on 2011.04.19 - 5:38 pm

    The possibility of there opening is quite thrilling! I have found absolutely nothing that I like nearly as much! The unique ability to use voice/chat/play cards/drive/quest etc… are not found in any one world. If is using cloud technology, would it be possible to have a low level app to enter certain aspects of the world from iphone? I play pocket legends and it is pretty amazing the level of play possible on ipod/ipad/iphone. I can just imagine a spades app. Or the word game “Cracked” app. Also, in regards to a prior post about inventory… pocket legends has a storage unit where you can transfer to storage many of your items (expansion storage purchasable) and pick up the items you want with your various other avatars. This works great for transferring weapons and even gold among various avatars. Perhaps something similar could be used in for those with multiple avatars.

  41. #54 by Joeydantonio on 2011.04.19 - 5:21 pm

    Hey when can we get a new numbers update? How are things looking so far? 🙂

    • #55 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.19 - 5:49 pm

      No comment.

      • #56 by Kev on 2011.04.20 - 8:18 am

        Does that mean its not looking good? :/

      • #57 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.20 - 8:20 am

        No it doesn’t mean that at all. I’m just being realistic here, as all of you should too.

  42. #58 by Rick on 2011.04.19 - 4:16 pm

    Mr wilson, Banned users did spend as much and some even more money than some thereians that never got commitd any infractions so are you thinking of unbanning some? i mean its a new start they should be given a chance besides the SCAMMERS , HACKERS ETC. the people that were banned cause of griefing or bad language should be given a chance, and itl be 18+ so what do you think? its more $ for and an opporunity for people that loved the world to go back in and act correctly this time (im not a banned user but some of my best friends got banned and i do wish they could come)

  43. #60 by martin71 on 2011.04.19 - 1:20 pm

    what i think you should do MW is for the newbies to have the pay by the hour to see if they like it or not and the other option is to have a monthly fee for the ppls who will stay on

  44. #61 by Mademoiselle Fifi on 2011.04.19 - 1:04 pm

    It might be a good idea for you to put a video of on your web site, so that new people that we want to interest in taking the survey would have an idea of what it’s about.
    Might pull them in if they see the interesting activities.

    • #62 by Rick on 2011.04.19 - 2:08 pm

      no about noobs i say give them 1 hour of free trial then offer them a membership for “xx” $ when the time runs out

  45. #63 by RockmanD on 2011.04.19 - 12:46 pm

    Hi Michael,
    Great news with the survey – I hope the numbers keep rolling in and make it possible for There to reopen at some time in the future. I’ve seen an awful lot of posts here and on Facebook where people think There IS opening, I’m sure even if the survey results are favourable there will be many ‘what ifs’ that need to be answered before a decision is made.
    If There did reopen have you considered charging for fuel for the vehicles? We used to have to pay for paintball, clothing, PAZ’s etc. so why not a small charge for fuel?
    I know people will argue against this but I would rather have to pay to use my buggies, boats etc. and still have There open.

  46. #64 by SaltySilver on 2011.04.19 - 11:44 am

    Jimony, that is a good point about extra avie 4.49 and pay only when you log in. Surly it would be nice for designers or people that like to hold things on a seperate avie.Then again it could be a nice griefing tool too….. hmmmm. pay 5 bucks to talk some smack. …. but then if it was linked to your home avie …. hey it might just work out !

    • #65 by There lover on 2011.04.19 - 1:07 pm

      I like that idea to Jimony! I think if there was a possible way they could link the avatars things together in one account but it was still somewhat separate. But you would have to pay $5 per avie.. but you were not able to “log in” to the avie and be in the avatars account unless you paid either the monthly fee or paid an extra whatever it would be to equal the full amount of the monthly fee.

  47. #66 by Rick on 2011.04.19 - 11:31 am

    well you can allways implement it but the monthly fee will be the most used because people dont really plan on being online this “x” hours they just login until they feel like logging off, like not having a certain hour to log off

  48. #67 by NoBioN on 2011.04.19 - 10:07 am

    Pay by hour most likely is not as “stable” a income as subscription is. It sure has good and bad sides to it. Personaly i’ll prefer subscription.

    But isent subscription only really a minor income. Its about charging the right places. A attractive ingame activity might make people spend maybe much more than 10$ a month.

  49. #68 by jimony on 2011.04.19 - 9:34 am

    Pay by the hour may work in combination with a very minimum monthly fee.
    If we pay 4.49 a month to keep our accounts open and then pay for the time we actually are logged on, with maybe a monthly maximum like 34.99 for instance, letting all entertainment in-game be covered for that fee (excepting purchasing property and items), then maybe not only would the game pay for itself, but maybe it would thrive.

  50. #69 by Chrisrc2006 on 2011.04.19 - 7:47 am

    Hey Michael! I thank you for getting this poll out there for all who are interested. I do believe that a lot of people will pay for There if it were to be reopened. As you know, many people have gotten “sucked in” to the There world and that seems to be all they knew. I am very close friends with Zakimus, if you remember, he made the compass for there. I was recently talking to him about the survey and he brought up a good point. There sucked a lot of us in and took up a lot of our time. I kind of think that There needed to close for many of us to move on with our lives. Since there closed, I’ve almost finished my degree in Networking and I am engaged to be married in November. I believe this is the result of There closing because the bonds that I had to the game interfered with my real life. Don’t get me wrong, I am excited to hear about the interest of the people that want it open again. I would love to have it open again. I would pay for it to be open again. I just feel as if you have done me and a lot of other members a great favor by closing it for a little while. Thank you for all you have done and all that you plan to do! Keep up the good work!


    • #70 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.19 - 7:52 am

      You are absolutely right, and it’s something we think about every day. That’s one of the reasons we’re thinking about the Pay-By-The-Hour option: If you had to pay (no matter how little) for each hour you spent Not-In-The-Real-World, you might handle it differently.

      • #71 by Chrisrc2006 on 2011.04.19 - 8:00 am

        That makes since now that you said that. But aren’t you afraid that if you did do the pay-by-the-hour that there wouldn’t be enough people to make up for the costs to have the world running?

      • #72 by SaltySilver on 2011.04.19 - 11:34 am

        Pay-by-the-hour reminds me of the 80’s when long distance calls cost money by the minute. I for one don’t want to watch my time or think about racking up hours. flat rate, one, six or twelve month fee. All the the fun you want. Extras cost enclude; items bought in auctions, paz, funzones, neighborhoods. all that good stuff. 😀

  51. #73 by Rick on 2011.04.19 - 7:44 am

    So Mr wilson if there did good the first year after the relaunch , and lets say in 2013 itd lose like 30% of its players & not make enough $ would u still keep it open and try something different or close again?

    • #74 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.19 - 7:50 am

      The rules are simple: If There can break even or make a profit, then it can stay open.

  52. #75 by 20000Dollers on 2011.04.19 - 7:31 am

    and MW do u know how much longer it will be till u can say that u can re open – re lunch

  53. #76 by 20000Dollers on 2011.04.19 - 7:25 am

    hi MW i was just woundering if there will be support when u do open the world up cuz i need to change my e-mail adress and will there be staff and i got 1 more question would u ever offer eny of us to be in world staff ???

  54. #77 by EvenStupider on 2011.04.19 - 7:18 am

    Mr Wilson, yesterday you said: “The problem is that there are a certain class of banned users we don’t want back under any circumstances (those banned for inappropriate behavior with members under 18, those guilty of hate speech, those who failed to respect Makena’s IP, those guilty of hacking or launching cracking attacks, etc, etc).

    Before we can start re-admitting banned users, we need to be sure we can prevent those former users from returning.”

    Is that to say you ARE considering letting a selective portion of banned members back to the re-launched version of (contingent that it does happen)?

    • #78 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.19 - 7:20 am

      The question here is “Will enough people pay a subscription fee, on a monthly basis, to re-open and keep There open.”

      I’m sorry, but we’re really not thinking too hard at this time about re-admitting banned users, recombinant Avatar technology (we want to be able to reanimate them first), paint ball prices, or changing avatars into paint balls. We’re just focusing on getting going again, then we’ll think about the rest. Ok?

      • #79 by jimony on 2011.04.19 - 8:16 am

        There are discussions going at for anyone who has ideas or suggestions they just have to get off their chests regarding bans, paintballs or avies that look like paintballs. These discussions will most likely be revisited by There staff if There comes back.

      • #80 by Skyefire on 2011.04.19 - 9:17 am

        “or changing avatars into paint balls”

        Oh, I like that idea. Make them reusable. I can think of a few avatars I would like to pelt a few trees or tall buildings with…

  55. #81 by EvenStupider on 2011.04.19 - 6:10 am

    Mr Wilson, can you clarify exactly what “Maybe if I somehow put links to Trump’s presidential bid on there…hmmm…” means?.

    • #82 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.19 - 6:40 am

      Yes. It was a joke. Sorry 🙂

      • #83 by Winston on 2011.04.19 - 7:30 am

        “Maybe if I somehow put links to Trump’s presidential bid on there…hmmm…”

        I think you should see if Charlie Sheen would be willing to post a link or say something to Entertainment Tonight about it. “I got Tiger’s Blood! Take the There survey ’cause your life will be so much more @#%& then yours.” 🙂

      • #84 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.19 - 7:56 am

        Trump is a joke!

  56. #85 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.19 - 5:25 am

    Would you consider leasing the rights to THERE to another entity who would operate it?

    • #86 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.19 - 7:12 am

      I can’t imagine why that would make any sense financially to anyone, especially at this point in time.

    • #87 by Kenny Ken25 on 2011.04.29 - 7:12 am

      I think that’s happend, from the same people that made Seems fishy to me, Yownow IS with just better gfx. So why would 2 V-worlds be up and running that are the same in looks and feel. Could this survey we are taking realy be a fluff job to see how many would play yownow? Since Yownow is already backed up with money and is getting closer to open, buy late summer….which would be how long it takes to open, once everything goes right.
      I just think the survey is secretly more for yownow then realy opening back up.

      • #88 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.29 - 7:21 am

        There are so many things wrong with this comment I can’t even begin to..well, here goes:

        1. YowNow is not
        2. I find it hard to believe that given the millions of dollars of investment in, and person-years, no, person-centuries of work involved in given the technology and art, that YowNow could, in less than a year, replicate it.
        3. I haven’t heard a thing about YowNow raising any money. On the other hand, Glitch, brought to you by the fine folks who made Flickr, has raised many millions of dolllars, has taken longer to develop, and is now just entering beta (and, BTW, it’s a great little place, I’ve been a tester for some time now).

        I’m sure other folks here who are more regular visitors to YowNow (who, by the way, is a great source of links to this site – Thanks!) can shed some light on your, uh, claims.

      • #89 by there_forever on 2011.04.29 - 10:29 am

        Unfortunately Kenny is a classic case of disinformation (not misinformation) which is has affected not only him but also hundreds of ex-Thereians and not only.
        It isn’t Kenny’s fault. He is just a another victim of Voniras black propaganda.
        It saddens me that so many people have been taken advantage of and have been given false hopes by someone who literally lives in his own world.
        I was there in the beginning and I know very well what is going on.
        One thing I can be certain about is that IF ‘There’ opens again, a lot of people will come back ‘home’ and will be saved from another major Vonira/YowNow disappointment when perhaps in August they will read another announcement which will be saying that their opening date will be delayed once again – I wonder what excuse they will find then. Last August they didn’t even have a platform to work on.
        IF they manage to open – which I would consider a miracle – I am SURE that it will be NOTHING compared to what they promise it to be. Like MW has repeated so many times, it takes years of research, programming and a lot of money to create and open a virtual world.
        It’s very important for all of us to do as best as we can to support ‘There’, to help it open and to do what we can so it can stay open. That way we will be ‘home’ and nobody will be able to take advantage of what we virtually love most and promise us something he can’t provide.
        A message to Kenny and everybody else in his position… If there is one thing to hope for, that is for ‘There’ to open again. Anything else you hear anywhere about any world claiming to be like ‘There’ in any manner is a lie. There is no other VW open or under construction that will ever have the ‘look’ and ‘feel’ of ‘There’.

  57. #90 by There lover on 2011.04.19 - 4:52 am

    With the teens under 18. Will you be holding there account until the account becomes of age?

  58. #91 by bikerbich on 2011.04.19 - 4:33 am

    This is awsome news. I have been pining for since it all cosed down. Miss my friends so very much, spades, my vehicles, my dogs and questing. I will have to start making new quests for my group, Quest Solvers for TBucks again. Woohooo!

  59. #92 by Liam Moir on 2011.04.19 - 2:30 am

    I noticed that now has an announcement on it now for the survey, Nice one!

  60. #93 by NoBioN on 2011.04.19 - 12:40 am

    Maybe much to ask. And maybe even a stupid question as well. But MW, whats your own inner feelings about the chances of there re-opening. You have a good feeling or bad feeling about it so far?

    Next question is. How come. According to your own reasearch. That its possible for much less and much worse virrual worlds to keep surviving year after year? Whats the main cost differences and causes that makes that possible?

    I know that you dont wanna put too much hope into people’s hearts yet. But for now can you indicate if or if not we should :-).

    Personaly i think you can answer that more precisly after the mass mailing. But if you can give one now. We all wouldent mind 🙂

  61. #94 by PurpleMia on 2011.04.18 - 11:22 pm

    Just a thought – I have no idea if this is workable –
    For designers and anyone with multiple avatars –
    Is it possible that – we have just one world avatar – but – the other accounts could be used as storage and items be movable between those accounts?
    If not … maybe just to start with … so people can re arrange their inventories to one avatar.

  62. #95 by reniar68 on 2011.04.18 - 9:01 pm

    Michael, I suppose the only reason for not receiving an answer to my questions is that there just are too many up here and one tends to miss one or the other post.
    You wouldn’t just ignore it.

    So let me return to this once more:

    Majandi here.
    I wonder, would it make sense to kind of feel our way back in with reopening ThereIM for a reasonable fee?”

    It’s just an idea. I’d really love to get ThereIM back, while waiting for a possible revival of There.

    I do have an other question: I’ve been using multiple avies and some of them had developer items out. Do you think there is a chance of merging these on one avatar?

    I could imagine that this might apply to quite a few of the major developers that had some suffering from stuck inventories or simply invented new avatar names as kind of new brand names to serve a different set of clients with a different line and feel of products.

    I’d be ready to pay 20$ per month for an account with one avatar. But probably not for each of maybe 5 avatars, As 4 of them more or less are inactive and only hold their developer items in auctions anyway.

    Or maybe the developer program could include some kind of special “ancient developer” deal for developer accounts from the previous age of There?


    • #96 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.19 - 4:31 am

      1. No, it’s not possible to get ThereIM back first. We’d have to do the same amount of work with regards to avatar migration, etc.
      2. We’ve addressed the issue of not addressing the issue of multiple avatars multiple times here.
      3. We’re not at the point where we can offer “deals” any more. “Deals” are best oriented towards “This will attract a material number of people or revenue more than if we didn’t have the deal”, or “We are making so much money we’d like to show appreciation through doing a deal”, or “This will be a loss leader but will materially attract more people who will stay” situations. Our situation here is…different, as we all know. Sorry.

      • #97 by reniar68 on 2011.04.19 - 8:20 pm

        1. I understand.
        2. Ah, OK. Sorry, Kind of hard to read all the posts. But who am I telling that?
        3. I was just thinking that getting former developers back on board asap would probably boost the economy quite a bit.

  63. #98 by Ant1977 on 2011.04.18 - 7:27 pm

    The survey is up for 30 days, meaning that on May 7th the survey will close. An announcement on May 8th saying that will be resurrected would be the best birthday gift I could get this year or Mother’s Day gift to any moms out there!!

    • #99 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.18 - 8:58 pm

      Well actually, we first have to review the data to root out the duplicates by people who have hacked around the Survey’s methods for detecting people who take the survey more than once. That will give us a true count.

      So, it won’t be on May 7th.

      • #100 by Pilot_51 on 2011.04.21 - 3:46 pm

        That sounds to me like you’ll eliminate duplicate responses from the same IP, at least it’s the most obvious/effective solution. My brother also took the survey and he’s on the same network as me. Does that mean one of our responses will be excluded? I’m sure many other people have the same situation.

      • #101 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.21 - 3:51 pm

        No, we have other ways. Don’t worry, we know who the (cough) sneaks are.

  64. #102 by MT on 2011.04.18 - 1:29 pm

    Has the mass e-mail been sent yet, or is that still under construction?

    I have a vibe when you send that out, the results will really flow in. I’m hoping for a reopening, but who knows.. the urge to buggy lap and race is gettin’ to me!

    • #103 by Innie on 2011.04.18 - 2:57 pm

      MT, me too. I have been sitting here staring at my computer screen for 30 minutes…….wishing I could log into There.

  65. #104 by Rick on 2011.04.18 - 12:43 pm

    i think at least 50+% of thereians doesent know about this survey yet

  66. #105 by Joeydantonio on 2011.04.18 - 12:21 pm

    Now that the link to the survey is up on the official website, I will laugh even more/louder at those under 18 years old trying to say this isn’t the real Michael Wilson’s blog. LOL fail!

    • #106 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.18 - 12:22 pm

      To the credit of those under 18, the individual making those claims was several times 18 years old. I’d say 3 or 4 times from the looks of it.

      • #107 by OdileS AKA MmeOdile on 2011.04.18 - 1:14 pm

        Well, now that the survey is on, we can all hush…. and stop saying or thinking, that you were not the real Wilson..I did kind of say in my brain..”wow..this survey is too good to be true…” Now, I can eat my thoughts LOL
        Great job on the survey Michael Wilson!!!!!

  67. #108 by RRTT on 2011.04.18 - 10:57 am

    Over the last couple minutes, every time I reload, the link changes font size or location. LOL. They must be putting it up literally right now.

    • #109 by Joeydantonio on 2011.04.18 - 12:19 pm

      It has to be perfect Garrett! Hope all is well with you buddy!

      • #110 by RRTT on 2011.04.18 - 6:10 pm

        Joey its been way too long. Maybe we’ll be back in There soon 😀 Good to know you’re still hangin around

  68. #111 by RRTT on 2011.04.18 - 10:53 am

    The link is up on the homepage. Hoping for the best!

  69. #112 by reniar68 on 2011.04.18 - 10:29 am

    May I circle back to:

    “Majandi here.
    I wonder, would it make sense to kind of feel our way back in with reopening ThereIM for a reasonable fee?”

    It’s just an idea. I’d really love to get ThereIM back, while waiting for a possible revival of There.

    I do have an other question: I’ve been using multiple avies and some of them had developer items out. Do you think there is a chance of merging these on one avatar?

    I could imagine that this might apply to quite a few of the major developers that had some suffering from stuck inventories or simply invented new avatar names as kind of new brand names to serve a different set of clients with a different line and feel of products.

    I’d be ready to pay 20$ per month for an account with one avatar. But probably not for each of a set of maybe 5 avatars, As 4 of them more or less are inactive and only hold their developer items in auctions.

    • #113 by JamesR on 2011.04.18 - 11:04 am

      This seems like an idea that if you could login to a “root” account which would then list all of your accounts or “aliases”

      Not allowing multiple logins might be an issue, but it stops lets say banned members accessing the game on a peers spare account.

  70. #114 by there_forever on 2011.04.18 - 8:25 am

    How’s the survey going? Have we gone over the 2000 vote level?

  71. #115 by Chris Alderman on 2011.04.18 - 8:17 am

    if was to re-open what will the charge Be

    • #116 by pHluid13 on 2011.04.18 - 11:25 am

      If you have taken the survey, you will know that Mr. Wilson is currently surveying people to find out how much people would pay. It looks like the range is $10-$20 per month. The more people who say $10 per month, the more people we will need for to open again. So sit tight, and spread the word.

  72. #117 by Chris Alderman on 2011.04.18 - 7:59 am

    Micheal I have a another Question? will there be a Payment plan for those who,s on a Tight Budget.

    thank you

    • #118 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.18 - 8:02 am

      I’m sorry but the plan will be “Pay once a month”.

      It’s pretty clear we’re going to have to set up a solid gifting program here.

      • #119 by Soede on 2011.04.18 - 10:45 am

        Well hopefully the plan will technically be Pay once a month, plus top up anytime to buy More stuff and own More land =P
        I filled out the how-much-would-you-pay based on how much Extra I’d pay over and above my previous spending.

  73. #120 by EvenStupider on 2011.04.18 - 7:30 am

    Mr Wilson, you have commented about designers, funzones, and real estate – I was wondering what your current thoughts are on Paint ball. (arguably’s most active sport). IF reopens – Will it be free? charged on a monthly basis? or as it was?.Personally, I think for some time now the company has over-looked the large, active, and loyal group of paint ball players. My recommendation (keeping’s financial stability in mind) would be to charge for it on a monthly basis. One better, I think there should be a 3, 6, and 12 month discount. This promises a significant source of revenue given the loyalty amongst paint ball players. You can then take that idle cash and invest it elsewhere, as opposed to having members play here and there, waiting for them to run out of tbux before collecting your future income.

    Just a suggestion.

    Fixing the glitch issues would be nice too!

    • #121 by Rick on 2011.04.18 - 8:10 am

      i started with paintball in 08 and spent all money i made during summer 09 on it i think that would be a good idea, also heard bout you but never seen you i remember your name from the top50 tho

      • #122 by DJ Hall on 2011.04.18 - 11:44 am

        haha is this rick like xnocomment? btw EvenStupider was the leader of HF as I remember… never really met him though.

      • #123 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.18 - 4:30 pm

        yep thats me , and same and whats your name? besides dj hall

    • #124 by Cat on 2011.04.19 - 6:40 am


      ( I’ve elided the content of this comment since it doesn’t pertain to the matters at hand. My apologies to the submitter).

  74. #125 by Kaden on 2011.04.18 - 7:13 am

    when reopen next week since the survey would be up already for 30 day?

    • #126 by Kaden on 2011.04.18 - 7:17 am


    • #127 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.18 - 7:22 am

      No, it will not have been up for 30 days next week.

      No, it won’t be re-opening next week.

    • #128 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.18 - 7:27 am

      i think itl be 30 days on may 7th or 8th but still if mr wilson decides to re-open it will not take just a week im sure just be patient and happy were gettin this chance 🙂

  75. #129 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.18 - 6:58 am

    Mr wilson could we know if youre thinking of making some changes to paintball? reloads price or something thank you

  76. #131 by Chris Alderman on 2011.04.18 - 6:42 am

    I am real excited about re-opening? but why is it not going to be a one-time fee of 10 dollars.

    • #132 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.18 - 7:19 am

      read above god, there wouldnt survive like that

    • #133 by pHluid13 on 2011.04.18 - 11:36 am

      Let’s say I bought an iPad to loan out as a service to another individual. Let’s say YOU were that individual. And let’s say I said to you, in order to use this iPad, you would have to pay me $20 one time fee for the life of the iPad. I wouldn’t make out very good at all, would I? I actually wouldn’t even make enough to pay off the iPad. Let’s say on the other hand, for the convenience of you NOT paying the full price of the iPad up front, I charge you $20 per month to use the device and I will furnish you with a brand new upgraded model every 3 years. So that would amount to $20 times 36 months = $720. This iPad cost me $499 for the base model. I just made a profit of $221 in 3 years (not taking tax into account). This ends up being a profit of about $73 per year. Now, if you were doing the same thing as me. Which option would YOU choose? Charge lifetime fee of $20? Or a monthly fee of $20?

  77. #134 by Brido on 2011.04.18 - 5:08 am

    Hello Mr Wilson, I have a question i’d like to ask.. IF there was to re-open and from what we know now that it’s going to be an 18 rated game that we will be paying towards, will their be adult content added to the game? Maybe.. gambling? I had quite an addiction to the gambling system on Secondlife but I would be curious to know if this would be a possibility in there? Maybe.. (Poker, blackjack etc).

    • #135 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.18 - 6:23 am


      The FBI just closed down a number of online Poker sites in the U.S. This isn’t a business we want to be in.

      • #136 by Brido on 2011.04.18 - 6:29 am

        I wasn’t aware of this, thank you for getting back to me.

  78. #137 by erick758 on 2011.04.18 - 4:35 am

    Hello 😀

  79. #138 by xxBethanyxx on 2011.04.18 - 4:19 am

    michael, thanks for not forgetting about everyone. i wish you so much luck in what you are working on. best wishes! 🙂

  80. #139 by EvenStupider on 2011.04.18 - 4:10 am

    President Wilson is about to pass a new legislation! Keep pressuring him! 🙂

  81. #140 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.18 - 3:27 am

    Mr wilson will every item given after the knowing of closing be in world still? cause alot of people gave me those “there games super bunnies” and i believe i had over 30 pars of them will we still have those items?

  82. #141 by 20000Dollers on 2011.04.18 - 3:17 am

    oh and i was never banned i join i think for the first time when i was 16 years old and now im 21 and yh to let people on there account’s to let people see if thay got there info right or wrong ?? so yh michael

  83. #142 by 20000Dollers on 2011.04.18 - 3:14 am

    Hi Mr michael wilson i was just woundering how would new members join there if thay not been on it b4 and 2nd cont u let people use there old accounts for like 3 days or something so thay know there account info is right like me i need my e-mail changeing cuz my e-mail adress got hacked and i cont get it back all i can do is contact ur company when u open to get my e-mail on my account / avie changed and i have no problem on paying as im 21 years old

  84. #143 by Lady Gaga on 2011.04.18 - 2:03 am

    If 1,000$ adds don’t get seen you obviously have to spend more “THATS THE WAY IT WORKS”

  85. #144 by reniar68 on 2011.04.17 - 10:10 pm

    Majandi here.
    I wonder, would it make sense to kind of feel our way back in with reopening ThereIM for a reasonable fee?

  86. #145 by There lover on 2011.04.17 - 6:29 pm

    Will every single member be able to get there account back? Of course not banned members.Also what does this mean for Develpors will we finally be able to make bloody things ect.?

    • #146 by sn3aky on 2011.04.17 - 8:32 pm

      What is everyones point and shoot mentality on banned members not getting back on if it was to reopen? Is an upscale country club?
      I hate to “what if things” but, what if a account was banned that was not deserving, innocent accounts did get banned on There, I had one of them.

      If you want to exclude the number of banned members from as part of the revenue potential fine, but I would still allow them back on the sake that if there were 2000 banned accounts (probably way more) and half of those got their account back and actually played and then only a 1/3 of them stuck around thats still an extra 333.33 accounts active and playing the new There if it was to reopen.

      Why take the potential away? On the other side, your worried some banned member who caused trouble is going to doing it all over again? Let him/her they will get banned again and atleast could get some profit from them. I guess it goes both ways, but I am willing to do whatever it takes to get up and going
      and if allowing previously banned members into the new There is going to help the companies $$ then lets do it, but if they are going to cost more then the risk of allowing banned members to play then no..

      Maybe a probation period for previously banned members?

      MW, I am not sure where your stance is on this, I would be intrigued to know but if this is to inviting of a war of comments please don’t answer, not that we don’t have that already.

      • #147 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.17 - 8:53 pm

        The problem is that there are a certain class of banned users we don’t want back under any circumstances (those banned for inappropriate behavior with members under 18, those guilty of hate speech, those who failed to respect Makena’s IP, those guilty of hacking or launching cracking attacks, etc, etc).

        Before we can start re-admitting banned users, we need to be sure we can prevent those former users from returning.

      • #148 by JamesR on 2011.04.18 - 5:30 am

        @ #1211


        This is in relation to your comment (#1211

        There is no doubt you will find banned users attempting to get back in game – it is something you cannot stop.

        If someone wants to play, they will get around ANY checkpoint you put in place. There is no way you can control this 100%. Just like people who buy drugs, no one will be able to stop everyone.

        You want to prevent banned members coming back. Spend more to prevent, you’ll stop a few but they’ll keep coming back.

        I believe that every user that wishes for a place back in There should earn it.

        And this is how it should go:

        They should apply for a review on their ban. The review can only be submitted if they have been permanently banned for over 3 years (for example)

        A fine would have to be paid depending on the offence + a review fee

        An increased membership fee

        Restrictions would be set for a set time. (1 month, 3 months, 6 months, life, etc) depending on the offence.

        Restrictions could include chat/voice/game play

        A deposit would have to be paid, which would be returned after the restricted set time.

        The users accounts should not be re-activated. Instead a new account should be made.

        The users new account would be flagged just like if you had voice, or you are staff. For the set restricted time.

        The community can submit comments about the users behaviour with a rating.

        The user would be closely monitored for the set restricted time and any inappropriate behaviour or volition of the TOS should be permanently banned.

        At the end of the restricted time, the user will undergo a review. Deciding whether or not they should stay in game and whether or not they should get their original account(s) back.

        I believe this method is far better and would benefit both and the banned members who have screwed up but wish to come back to play.

        And at the end of it, if they wish to still mess around they lose everything once again.


        I hope you can give a good response to this Michael

      • #149 by sn3aky on 2011.04.18 - 5:40 am

        Absolutely, I couldn’t agree more, my main argument was for the abandoning of profit for that few % of valuable members that were banned. Thank you for your response Mr. Wilson. Appreciate all your doing to keep us informed along the way here.

      • #150 by DJ Hall on 2011.04.18 - 11:41 am

        I love everyone who was on my side about this, you guys are right! Some people need to stay banned. I had a 12 year old kid scam my credit card by hacking my old account before you had to verify it was your credit card, he got over 100 + dollars. He needs to stay ban, but someone in my case.. willing to pay and help Loves spent tons of money and willing to spend more should come on.. so should alot of my non hacker friends who got banned. But there are limits to when someone should be able on and never be allowed on again and I really think you should allow them man.. just check out the people who have been banned that would love to play and pay again.. it’s a win win situation.

      • #151 by DJ Hall on 2011.04.18 - 11:47 am

        I mean were talking about “There2” it will be different, it’s no longer just “There” I think everyone who was banned for something that wasn’t 100% illegal like (Stealing real money, Hacking) ETC. They should be allowed back on and reset of their record.. because the past is the past man.

  87. #152 by OdileS AKA MmeOdile on 2011.04.17 - 6:20 pm

    At one point the virtual world ‘Second Life’, had an area just for Teens….They did do away with this option recently. For what reason I do not know…
    In ‘There’, I had two granddaughters that had permission to be play the game and interact with my husband and me. My grandkids were not 13, so I contacted ‘There’ ….I had to scan my ID and type out a written permission saying that I would keep the kids with me at all times, ‘and’ only when I was online…Having said this, I totally do understand that if there re-opens their doors, it will be for 18+. (I saw things that young people should not have seen…I did report a few incidences too…)…
    Maybe a small seperate area for teens? I read a message by someone here, suggesting teens could have a type of place for themselves, a bit of an area where they ‘could not enter’ the adult regions…In my own opinion, I think that would be a nice idea, although I have absolutely zero knowledge about the ins and outs of running a virtual world….I just play the game…I do believe anytime you add under age children to the equation, you run the risk of kids being exposed to adults and their situations, and legally I think it could get sticky…In my opinion it can actually be dangerous giving teens ‘their space’. how do you really know that adults would not be lurking where the teens go, and who would supervise them? That opens doors to negative situations…It’s probably a lot easy sticking to only letting adults into a virtual world that is made for adults… I know that parents should watch their children, but so many do not….

    • #153 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.17 - 7:33 pm

      Exactly. Now you begin to see the problem(s).

      • #154 by Shauna Meyers on 2011.04.18 - 10:50 am

        I understand what shes saying, but what I don’t understand is why you don’t simply put it in terms and conditions?? If you state in terms and conditions that you are NOT held liable for any child getting in trouble, then if anybody tries to sue you, you can point out that they’re the ones who accepted the terms and conditions…. Of course I’m no expert in this situation, but if an adult (parent) gave a minor permission and proof that an adult is allowing them to use and checks the box, the weight of the minor would be taken off your shoulders. Obviously I understand that its a lot more complicated then I’m putting it, but there HAS to be a way… was my life, Michael. Seriously my entire life. For years this was my routine: Get home from school, get on There, play until 1 in the morning, go to sleep, wake up, go to school, then it would start all over again. I NEED… Please your letting so many thousands of teenagers down by not allowing them. :'(…

  88. #155 by Shauna Meyers on 2011.04.17 - 2:33 pm

    Dear Michael Wilson,

    I have been a user since I was 9 years old… I am now 13. I have spent literally hundreds of dollars on Well technically my mother has spent hundreds of dollars on There…. anyways, re-opening and not allowing children under 18 would not only be taking the money of 50% (give or take) of users, but it would be money lost for you as well… I do understand that you don’t want teenagers and children exposed to some adult behavior, but much of the population of There was kids…. Keep in mind that there’s the possibility of having a different server for users under 18??…. Not allowing people under 18 would be a GIGANTIC disappointment to hundreds of thousands of teens. 13+ only is understandable, but 18+ is just insanity…. I had friends that had an abusive, horrible home life, and was their only get away…

    Also, (I dont know if im 100% correct or not), but I believe much of’s profit loss was because of all the big businesses such as Coco-cola, Scion, Acuvue, etc…. If re-opens, please dont get them involved again.. they just made really laggy and decreased some designer profits…

    Thanks for hopefully listening… PLEASE allow under 18 users, Michael Wilson :(…

    • #156 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.17 - 4:01 pm

      read his posts above unfortunately im sure this wont happen well hopefully there will do good enough that in 5 years when ure 18 youl be able to play it again

  89. #157 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.17 - 2:18 pm

    It was what it was .. Those were the rules in There.
    Those who choose to break the rules have to live with the consequences.
    I never saw a Helper just show up and ban someone immediately. They always issued at least one warning prior to banning an individual.
    I walked that line a few times. I learned to shut my mouth when the Helper asked me to.

  90. #158 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.17 - 1:54 pm

    just get over the 18+ and ban thing you guys know you wont get unbanned nor will mr wilson allow minors in so i think were already done with that kind of Qs and requests

    • #159 by DJ Hall on 2011.04.17 - 5:50 pm

      Nooo, It would be a great idea to start over like that. People have matured, it’s been like a year right? Why live in the past.. if we want this game to be more and more sucessful as it can be, I think giving everyone second chances might be a great idea and what that kid under said about under 18.. may be great too. Idk man. but the second chance thing is a great idea.. the population would be so much more. Otherwise it will just be the same small crowd of people paying monthly and no one wants that man. Everyone wants to see a fresh new start with there2.

  91. #160 by Lady Tigrane on 2011.04.17 - 1:12 pm

    The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy reference as the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything

    • #161 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.17 - 2:11 pm

      Snoopy sitting here scratching his head and repeating:
      HUH ?
      HUH ?
      HUH ?
      The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy ? HUH?
      I’m SO CONFUSED 🙂

      • #162 by Cat Ballou on 2011.04.17 - 4:03 pm

        She is referring to the number 42… which is The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy reference as the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything

        Everyone knows that, where you been, in a cave?

      • #163 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.18 - 5:38 am

        Who wouda thunk it!
        Here, all this time, I thought that kind of answer might have come from scientists like Einstein, Hawking, Carroll, Close, Foster etc etc. Or with a minor stretch of the imagination, Michael Wilson. 🙂
        So, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy is a science fiction comedy series created by Douglas Adams. Originally a radio comedy broadcast on BBC Radio 4 in 1978 … contains all the answers and apparently numbers I have been wondering about all my life?
        It must be the number guiding Michael in his quest to re-open There.
        Hmmm, stranger things have happened.
        Pardon my ignorance guys, I MUST get that movie and watch it. Suddenly I feel like wondrous things have been happening all around me and I cant see the forest for the trees. 🙂

      • #164 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.18 - 6:24 am

        Wait, what? You haven’t seen the movie????

      • #165 by Skyefire on 2011.04.18 - 6:53 am

        Sacrilege! You have to read the book first. Or at least watch the old mini-series. The movie is cute but it’s not really the same.

      • #166 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.18 - 7:48 am

        OMG, now I’m in deep doo-doo,
        Nope, didn’t watch it. Guess that now becomes some kind of black mark huh?
        I’m doomed to never see There2.
        How about this Michael, I just finished downloading the movie and will watch it TODAY?
        Will that and some form of penance get me off the hook?
        Holy crap Batman, why oh why did I start this in the first place????
        Once again Tig gets me in trouble but this time could have life altering consequences 🙂

      • #167 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.18 - 7:52 am

        I certainly hope you paid for that download.

        As for penalties, we’re not in charge of that. I hear you can be banned from the internet if you haven’t see it, but that may just be a rumor.

      • #168 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.18 - 8:44 am

        Paid for it? What ever made you think I wouldn’t?
        Banned from the Internet .. This will make a few peoples day 🙂
        Well, at least my house is still standing and the Earth was not blown up or am I being overly optimistic? Probably, there are still 10 hours and 20 mins left for me to hitch a ride on the Vorgons ship.
        There, you happy now? Please speak to the Internet powers that be and tell them I will do ALMOST anything to be saved from a life without the Internet.
        I have had my dog for 1 year and 2 days and he barks at me every time I leave this room, much like he would to a stranger.
        Something tells me I need a life 🙂

  92. #169 by Corey__Lee on 2011.04.17 - 12:00 pm

    Well i knew tht THERE would re-open 🙂 congratz you made great job michael! i have an excuse i want you to revome my ban :))


    • #170 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.17 - 1:02 pm

      We don’t know it’s going to re-open yet.

    • #171 by Roxannie on 2011.04.17 - 1:19 pm

      if you read all the posts you will see that no one will be unbanned, not even people who only violated pg13 rules, which i don’t agree with but whatever it takes to get it open, idc, i just think pg13 violations that had nothing to do with stalking and only bad language should get a second chance, but like i said, i’ve not been banned so whatever is decided it’s up to MW

  93. #172 by Jordan(OMGJordan) on 2011.04.17 - 11:49 am

    If there2 does open would there be any way of having maybe like “Pg 13 zones” Or something like that, and to go into the “Adult zones” You would have to show a id and pay like 5-10$ more. Imvu does that. because like 40% of my ex friends are under 18. :c

    • #173 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.17 - 1:01 pm

      We could have PG-13 Zones, but, by definition, they would be empty.

      • #174 by DJ Hall on 2011.04.17 - 1:12 pm

        Michael what are you talking about? I knew tons of kids that use to pay so much money for there and were under 18. haha Bro, I’ve actually seen kids own 1.2 million dollar zones.. because they loved the game so much more because when you’re a kid you love games alot more most of the time. I mean.. like sure this game could be 18 + I’m old enough to play and all but like before when was pg-13 I saw kids constantly not allowed in places because they wanted adults only? Even when the kids didn’t do anything. It just didn’t make alotta sense to me, if it was 18 + I’d understand that but alot of adults were already being bias on the game way before it was shut down and thought to be 18 +. Just saying man.

      • #175 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.17 - 1:32 pm

        Your anecdotal data differ from ours. Yes, there were a lot of people under 18 in There. No, they didn’t spend near the money > 18s did.

      • #176 by EvenStupider on 2011.04.17 - 5:43 pm

        Dj – First, keep in mind that is a product – and like any other product must figure out the segment (or demographic) it can earn a viable income from. MOST people under the age of 18 tend NOT to have jobs with significant income, are unwilling to contribute significant cash flow (because they don’t spend virtually any money), and even more problematic, is the fact that is responsible for them – thus requiring a costly moderation team. (worsening the already problematic financial situation). The best demographic for’s CURRENT state, is the mature, money spending, responsible adult – who routinely dumps money into the game. Structuring the game for this demographic significantly increases the chances of reaching the break even point (which has failed to do for quite some time now) – and eventually become a profitable business. On the other hand, structuring the game for the ‘cosmogirls’, and all the other teens pretty much promises deficit. Bearing this in mind however, perhaps some day down the line (when becomes financially stable) – it might be possible to open up a “teen” zone, much like SecondLife did after sometime. As for right now though, the target segment is adults. I hope you can understand why now. . .

  94. #177 by EvenStupider on 2011.04.17 - 11:28 am

    What happened to the mass e-mail, and the survey on the site?

    • #178 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.17 - 1:01 pm

      We’re working on the mass email. We need to do it correctly, otherwise a site suddenly sending out thousands of emails will be marked as a Spammer , and ISPs will start blocking it.

  95. #179 by I AM SO READY on 2011.04.17 - 11:25 am

    1. has the best new user interface fare beyond that of Second life or v-side
    2. has the best voice interface with distance control, volume control
    3. has the best open world platform and to be able to travel from one place to another without teleporting is unheard of in almost all the popular gaming sites
    4. has the best inventory supply list.
    5. There had the best Avatar to product interface (buggies, paintball, furniture and hover boats).

    In the Movie (Field of Dreams) it was quoted: Build it and they will come…
    I would like to Point out Why I think this might be the best time to roll out THERE2…

    A. You don’t know what you have until it is gone factor – When There closed so did some of our lives… I believe that WE AS THERIANS will do our part to secure whatever resource we need to prevent the closing from happening again.
    B. Finding out that the other side of the fence is not greener factor- I like Meany others have went into every 3D world you can think of and can all conclude that they shallow in comparison to
    C. Being forced to look for alternative environments has it’s positive repercussion also- we all have met new friends that never even knew excited and with us communicating how there was it seem very plausible they will follow us back there .
    D. FaceBook – Yes Facebook was around last year but really seems to be a driving force with getting the word heck I myself had little to do with face book before closed down..Now 600 friends later I am a privet power house of letting everyone know about my day to day actions. ( Will encore no out of the pocket advertisement fees for this lol).

    In ending this post I also wanted to make a very important statement to the fellow poster in this blog.
    Having questions is the right to all humanity but to criticize makes us less human. I encourage everyone to put them self in Michael Wilsons Shoes for one moment……. If you have a business that struggled to gain ground BUT loved it enough to believe in it what would you do? Finding a cheaper way is only one course of action… Sustaining the business for the future is the path forward we all need. I have read a lot of good Ideas well thought out in theses posts and I am sure Michael has also. The couch is tossing us the ball CAN WE SINK THE THREE POINT SHOT?
    With all due respect Michael………I AM SO THERE

  96. #180 by I AM SO READY on 2011.04.17 - 11:20 am

    1. has the best new user interface fare beyond that of Second life or v-side
    2. has the best voice interface with distance control, volume control
    3. has the best open world platform and to be able to travel from one place to another without teleporting is unheard of in almost all the popular gaming sites
    4. has the best inventory supply list.
    5. There had the best Avatar to product interface (buggies, paintball, furniture and hover boats).

    In the Movie (Field of Dreams) it was quoted: Build it and they will come…
    I would like to Point out Why I think this might be the best time to roll out THERE2…

    A. You don’t know what you have until it is gone factor – When There closed so did some of our lives… I believe that WE AS THERIANS will do our part to secure whatever resource we need to prevent the closing from happening again.

    B. Finding out that the other side of the fence is not greener factor- I like Meany others have went into every 3D world you can think of and can all conclude that they shallow in comparison to

    C. Being forced to look for alternative environments has it’s positive repercussion also- we all have met new friends that never even knew excited and with us communicating how there was it seem very plausible they will follow us back there .

    D. FaceBook – Yes Facebook was around last year but really seems to be a driving force with getting the word heck I myself had little to do with face book before closed down..Now 600 friends later I am a privet power house of letting everyone know about my day to day actions. ( Will encore no out of the pocket advertisement fees for this lol).

    In ending this post I also wanted to make a very important statement to the fellow posters in this blog………………….

    Having questions is the right to all humanity but to criticize makes us less human. I encourage everyone to put them self in Michael Wilsons Shoes for one moment……. If you have a business that struggled to gain ground BUT loved it enough to believe in it what would you do? Finding a cheaper way is only one course of action… Sustaining the business for the future is the path forward we all need. I have read a lot of good Ideas well thought out in theses posts and I am sure Michael has also. We have a second chance here to do things better and we are being asked if given the ball can we make the 3 point shot….

    With all due respect Michael………I AM SO THERE

  97. #181 by MattDillon2005 on 2011.04.17 - 10:48 am

    Frankly,I think the land,or paz’ and neighborhoods,if you will,were very under priced and overstocked for the population density.
    The early griefers were mostly young adults that did things that the general population thought was funny,like boats and buggies on zona island or filling vash’s clubhouse with a hundred buggies,but the later griefers were mostly troubled teens with no frame of reference to the reality of the anguish they were causing by just being mean for the sake of meaness,to be in control,but that’s the chance you take allowing under 18 in,I’m glad you are taking that step towards adults only,it’s a fiscally reponsible descision and one you’ll be proud of… I have more but,I’m exhausted.

  98. #182 by SassyBeMe on 2011.04.17 - 9:19 am

    I must say I do hope you plan on having a sweet welcome back to THERE tbuck sale deal IF and When you do reopen. I just realized I’m broke. 🙂

  99. #183 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.17 - 8:40 am

    42 is
    A perfect score on the USA Math Olympiad.
    The atomic number of molybdenum.
    The angle in degrees for which a rainbow appears or the critical angle.
    The glyph, or character, corresponding to the number 42 in the ASCII character set, is *, the asterisk, commonly known as the wildcard character.
    The GNU C Library, a set of standard routines available for use in computer programming, contains a function—memfrob()—which performs an XOR combination of a given variable and the binary pattern 00101010 (42) as an XOR cipher.
    42 is the result given by the web search engines Wolfram Alpha, Google and Microsoft’s Bing when the query “the answer to life the universe and everything” is entered as a search…
    Microsoft’s Windows 3.1 logo has 42 little squares forming it’s left side trail.
    Messier object M42, a magnitude 5.0 diffuse nebula in the constellation Orion, also known as the Orion Nebula.
    In Japanese culture, the number 42 is considered unlucky because the numerals when pronounced separately — “shi ni” (four two) — sound like the phrase, “unto death”.
    There are 42 principles of Ma’at, the Ancient Egyptian personification of physical and moral law, order, and truth.
    42 is the number with which God creates the Universe in Kabbalistic tradition.
    There are 42 generations (names) in the Gospel of Matthew’s version of the Genealogy of Jesus; it is prophesied that for 42 months the Beast will hold dominion over the Earth (Revelation 13:5).

    Which did you mean MW as an admission test for There2? Knowing u (as little as I do) I’m thinking the wildcard. Hoping it’s NOT the Beast holding dominion over There2 for 42 months. Although despite that, I’d still join for a monthly fee. ;0) Joy

    • #184 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.17 - 8:45 am

      What I am really hoping is that “42” is MW’s admission that it’s the number with which he will re-create the Universe in THERE tradition!

  100. #185 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.17 - 8:36 am

    Ah Michael,
    You know you want me in There2.
    I’m one of your biggest supporters now. I have seen the light 🙂
    As for the 42, my guess is that your at 42% of where you need to be, thus the mass mailing.
    With the exception of you and your staff, I seriously doubt that anyone wants to see you succeed any more than I do.
    Contrary to popular belief, I DO miss everyone who I knew in There. Hell, I even miss Phill41…. OMG, cant believe I said that. 🙂
    BUT I have an excuse for the the insanity of what I just said .. my age!

  101. #186 by Crazymattrocks on 2011.04.17 - 8:19 am

    Just to let those confused know, 42 is the Answer to The Ultimate Question Of Life. 🙂

  102. #187 by DJ Hall on 2011.04.17 - 8:00 am

    Plus I think, just to make sure it’s not a ghost town and this doesn’t happen again.. Give everyone a second chance, so they can play and then their friends play and as long as their not doing anything really wrong that violates ANYTHING, it would be great.. because x2 players would play and that means you’d make so much more money and not worry about the money issue.

  103. #188 by DJ Hall on 2011.04.17 - 7:53 am

    Yeah that’d be the best idea. Make a certain amount day Trial. So people can get a feel for the game.

  104. #189 by jimony on 2011.04.17 - 7:48 am

    MW, feel free to edit my previous comment if you don’t want to give away “42”.
    I tried not to give it away but I wanted to pass the entrance exam.

  105. #190 by jimony on 2011.04.17 - 7:22 am

    42 is the answer that MW receives when he asks his new super computer in the cloud to answer a question for him.
    Especially if someone asks, “What is the meaning of life, the universe and everything.”

  106. #191 by willgeek on 2011.04.17 - 6:13 am

    If there gains profit, would you consider making it 13+ or 15+?

  107. #192 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.17 - 5:48 am

    mr wilson i been wondering you said that wel have other payment options but will hte monthly fee for premium be only payable with CC? or paypal? cause i dont own any of those im 19 id be able to pay it with a paysafecard or game card but not cc will that be possible?

  108. #194 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.17 - 3:28 am

    You must have run what I will call Pre Alpha of There2 by now, to get some idea of costs.
    Can you give us some idea what the minimum hardware requirements will be in There2?
    It seems to me that the minimum requirements for hardware will be a lot less than in the old There.

    • #195 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.17 - 5:02 am


      • #196 by TgKhali on 2011.04.17 - 5:35 am

        which means ‘yes’

      • #197 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.17 - 5:54 am

        To quote you:

        42 what? 🙂
        Could you be a little more specific?
        That is the second time you have posted the number 42. Is it your personal favorite number or is it the Jeopardy Daily Double question?

      • #198 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.17 - 6:04 am

        No, I can’t be more specific, because no, we haven’t run a pre-Alpha version of There in this environment. We have run environments which tell us it will work, and we have made educated estimates.

        As for “42” consider that an admission test for There2. You’re not passing yet 🙂

      • #199 by willgeek on 2011.04.17 - 6:12 am

        42 Mr. Snoopy, is the meaning of life.

      • #200 by Cat Ballou on 2011.04.17 - 7:35 am

        42 kbps?

      • #201 by MadHatterMemphis on 2011.04.17 - 7:59 am

        42 is the answer to Life the Universe and Everything.I guess not enough Douglas Adams fans out there.

      • #202 by Soede on 2011.04.17 - 9:21 am

        Was going to post a link to help others pass the ’42’ portion of the test, but dont want my own test thrown out =O
        Luckily this is an open book test *cough* Google “42” *cough* It will increase your geek cred significantly!

      • #203 by Wendy Stoll on 2011.04.17 - 2:51 pm

        Did people quit reading The Hitchhiker’s Guide?

    • #204 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.17 - 6:23 am

      didnt you know 42 is the answer to all questions 🙂

  109. #205 by Tempy on 2011.04.16 - 11:09 pm


    Question 1:

    Regarding funzones, and neighborhoods I have a suggestion. Obviously tbucks will be the currency used for purchasing clothing, objects, vehicles etc in world, but perhaps for land ownership of neighborhoods or funzones could it be directly dealt with in US Currency? Instead of paying 80k in rent a month, they pay the equivalent in US Dollars. I have a poor business brain and am unaware if this would make more money for or not.

    Question 2:

    For paintgun refills have you considered lowering costs, or possibly offering a package for x-amount of dollars for six months or a year of free paintballs either attached to the gun or avatar chosen?


  110. #206 by Therians Fan on 2011.04.16 - 9:11 pm

    Mr. Wilson,

    A couple months ago, you said that you felt it was your fault that you didn’t figure out the best way to handle the resellers. In a way I see why you think the resellers were hurting There’s economy, but in a way it did help out to smooth the virtual world currency. If you think about it, back when you bought There and you enforced the policy that there were No Resellers allowed, you saw a major decrease in developers leaving game because of that. If you bring back that policy, you will see not many virtual developers would return. As a business the old saying goes, “The Customer Is Always Right” even though they maybe wrong, they are the ones who is keeping the servers running and sending in the money to the company. What IF you charge the resellers to allow them to become a reseller, that way you know it’s real and no fraud would be going on. Also, it is a good way to make money buy giving a fee to be a reseller. I do think you need to look closely at the resellers more. You can see in other virtual worlds that the reselling is helping out. A good example to look at are Second Life and IMVU.

    • #207 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.16 - 9:15 pm

      I have what I feel is a much better way to make sure Developers get compensated, but I’m not going to talk about it just yet. Suffice to say developers will see no advantage in resellers if it works right.

      (And I’m being all mysterious because I don’t want to clue in the good folks at our competitors about it).

      (And, No, it’s no that There will be buying all of the designer’s work and reselling it).

      • #208 by Soede on 2011.04.16 - 9:28 pm

        As long as there is a way for the excellent user developers of There to make a buck (or dream about making a buck) I am happy! I look forward to checking out this mysterious exchange system with pompoms waving.
        And ”’Yay to no dirty rotten design theft!

      • #209 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.16 - 9:34 pm

        Well, this won’t stop design theft. Not quite sure what to do about that yet.

      • #210 by Therians Fan on 2011.04.16 - 9:45 pm

        I see what your saying, and in a way I agree with you on it. I just feel that the resellers did help to facilitate the currency.

        Also, if you decide to do an hourly rate on Funzone/Frontier/Neighborhood zones, and we stop the time on it, would we still own the deed even though it’s not up and running? Also, I think that having an hourly rate would be a more of an issue on it, but I think it might be good to have as an optional choice to do. The best way to do it, is to find out how much it would cost to do, and than figure out how much it would be monthy. Or another great way to do it, is give an option to pay either weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly, or let’s say rent is 80,000 therebucks, and someone pays for it for 25,000 therebucks, they would have it running for a certain amount of time ie: 2 weeks and 5 days running. Something like that. (Example)

      • #211 by Soede on 2011.04.16 - 9:52 pm

        I dont really think design theft can ever be completely eliminated but way the company feels about it and responds to it is key. While peer2peer review systems have been harshly criticised elsewhere, I think there is a lot of merit in looking into it. esp if…
        1. A clear and concise tutorial on copyright guidelines is provided and a test must be past by prospective peer2peer reviewers
        2. Multiple reviews are required per item
        3. There is still staff involvement, leadership and reviews, esp on flagged items
        4. Rejection griefing and favoritism are dealt with swiftly and harshly
        5. Reviewers put their OWN designs on the line when vouching for a design. eg. having their own auctions locked

      • #212 by DavyRocket on 2011.04.17 - 5:31 am

        In response to #1156 I think the best way to slow down to almost stop theft is to 1. Not have all our work out in the open like it was before. 1 way would be once you have the textures set in previewer, and before it uploads, it packs “zips” all our files .model and all textures into a encrypted zip file maybe even have it password protected, and only you or if there is a new submission team, the manager knows the password. The game engine would read from that zip file. I use to be a big winzip fan, but 7zip beats winzip hands down. Just a thought.

  111. #213 by EvenStupider on 2011.04.16 - 5:16 pm

    Mr Wilson, I’m not sure if this would be the best idea, but have you considered different pricing packages? Something like: 7 day free trial – $4.99 basic membership (no voice, no compass, no summons ability) – $9.99 (voice, summons ability, compass) – and then the higher packages coming with additional allowances, more features, and quantity purchase discounts.

    • #214 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.16 - 8:11 pm

      This is a great idea, but it has a couple of problems: (1) We used to have something like this in 2005, and There didn’t make a profit then, (2) I’m always leery of “too many pricing plans” (does anyone remember when Sculley had Apple making like 20 different kinds of computers?).

      But maybe times have changed, and it’s a better idea now :-).

      • #215 by David H on 2011.04.17 - 2:37 pm

        I agree with you Michael, there is a few names for it.
        Which is one of the reasons the iPhone is so popular and has overtaken at least in global $ market share every other phone manufacturer, because people don’t want choice, they are sick of choosing between one and the other and just want to be told, “this is what you will have and nothing else”. $9.95 is perfect as the one and only option.

        Since the iphone was released, Nokia have released more than 30 models of phone, do you know how many models Apple have released? 4 with only two of them currently in production.

  112. #216 by daisy_duke81 on 2011.04.16 - 2:55 pm

    Oh My God yes get me back in my store. I miss THERE so very much and all my friends . Yes I will be glad to pay each month or when ever I paid before and would be glad to pay now.Please Michael Wilson let get on to THERE

  113. #217 by jimony on 2011.04.16 - 2:23 pm

    Michael, when/if There comes back, could you build a graveyard with open coffins where we all will be resurrected for our first logon? Thanks, much appreciated.

    P.S. If you could make us look like zombies, that would be cool too.

  114. #218 by DJ Hall on 2011.04.16 - 1:44 pm

    Idk, I just think if people are willing to spend tons of money regardless what happen to them in the previous game they should be able to come back.. unless it was really bad what they did before.

  115. #219 by DJ Hall on 2011.04.16 - 1:40 pm

    Yeah, the whole age and price thing will help alot espically when they will try to get money any way possible, which is fine.. I think with alotta people coming back and starting over and stuff like a new game.. it will be good and they will make a bunch of money. I use to do tons of tournaments for therebucks and everything before, so I think if everything goes right.. it should be great again.. Just let everyone back again Michael, let’s do this right.

  116. #220 by Koala07 on 2011.04.16 - 1:31 pm

    Micheal Wilson, When re-opens (I am thinking positive) are you going to be addressing some of the issues of the auctions so that it will be easier to find things and they will make more scene in there hierarchy, I know it is something that you have talked about in the past. This will I hope help in the inventory of the things we buy in auctions for our avatars.

  117. #221 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.16 - 1:20 pm

    Mr wilson i sent a ticker on vside and posted on facebook about the survey some friends already seen it 🙂 hopefully it helps

  118. #222 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.16 - 12:46 pm

    NY Times article: The Business Market Plays Cloud Computing Catch-Up
    Published: April 14, 2011

    ….But there are some recent signs of change. Last week, I.B.M. introduced a range of cloud services, including paying for computing resources like processing and storage on a metered pay-for-use formula, almost as if modeled on an electric utility. I.B.M. will offer customers an à la carte menu, in which they pay for different levels of guaranteed security, support and availability.

    I.B.M., a bellwether in the corporate technology market, forecasts that it will have $7 billion in cloud revenue by 2015. Of the total, $4 billion will be customers shifting to cloud delivery from the company’s traditional software and services, and $3 billion is expected to be entirely new business.

    “We’re moving to where the puck is going in this industry,” said Steven A. Mills, I.B.M.’s senior vice president for software and hardware. “And we’re more than willing to make this transition.”

    In another industry move announced last week, Dell said that it would invest $1 billion over the next two years to build 10 new data centers and expand customer support, largely for cloud offerings…….

    ……. There are also insurgents, like Amazon, that could speed things up in corporate cloud computing. Five years ago, the online bookseller and retailer decided to start a side business, offering computing resources to businesses from its network of sophisticated data centers. It called the new unit Amazon Web Services. It is a pay-for-use utility model, with customers paying from pennies to millions of dollars a month, says Adam Selipsky, vice president for product management.

    Today, the customer ranks include Netflix, NASA, drug companies and major banks, which use Amazon’s data centers to remotely run Web applications that do tasks like tracking customer movie requests or running credit-risk simulations.

    The Amazon cloud strategy, Mr. Selipsky says, mirrors its tactics in online retailing: build scale and efficiency, then cut costs and prices to gain market share. Amazon Web Services, he said, has reduced prices a dozen times in the last three years. “Most of that has been in the absence of competition,” Mr. Selipsky said, “because competitors have been so slow to emerge.

    Yet competition in the cloud market is intensifying. And that competition is taking shape across a number of fronts. It includes vendors offering basic computing resources like Amazon and Rackspace, joined by telecommunications giants like AT&T and Verizon that have entered the cloud business; companies offering ready-to-use applications tailored for businesses like Google’s online e-mail, document and collaboration services; Microsoft’s online version of its Office and collaboration tools; and’s online customer management and collaboration tools.

    Several companies also have built development environments on which programmers can build cloud software applications. Google has App Engine, Amazon has BeanStalk, Microsoft has Azure, has, and VMware has Cloud Foundry, which was introduced on Tuesday. By 2014, IDC estimates that 30 percent of total spending on software applications in the corporate market will be for cloud applications.

    Revenue from business cloud services — infrastructure resources, software applications and developer tools — was $22.2 billion last year, less than 2 percent of total technology spending, IDC estimates. But cloud revenue is growing at more than 25 percent a year, and will reach $55.5 billion by 2014, the research firm estimates., founded in 1999, began selling customer-relationship software to businesses as an Internet service long before the industry began talking of cloud computing. Things built slowly at first, but Marc Benioff, founder and chief executive of, says the turning point has come.

    “What’s being called the cloud now is the future of enterprise software, but when I started in 1999 no one believed that,” said Mr. Benioff, who recently raised the company’s revenue forecast by 25 percent. “Sometimes you do have to wait them out.”

  119. #223 by NoBioN on 2011.04.16 - 12:05 pm

    Not sure my previous comment is worth publishing, I was so excited that i dident read the comments, and in the first couple of comments, you say that you will restore people’s avatars and possesions.

    All i have to say, Like 1000 others might already expressed, Truly there is a deep hearted dedication from you MW.

    Many doubt Makena and Micheal wilson, When had to close, Heck! i myself was doubting it, Out of frustrations and being sad, because of the future ahead, With no to escape to. makena and micheal wilson was accused of many things.

    Your blog since that day, And also this post. Proves them all wrong, And the respect for Micheal wilson has reach the top for me, That game truly is as much in your heart as in ours. Nothing can talk me away from the fact, That was special. And it brought together many wonderfull evenings / days / years, and wonderfull people. Besides you a man who seems to know exactly what is needed to make run for years, if it was to reopen, its hard not to have trust in you. If ever reopens, I hope people will begin to contribute to’s survival, more than they did so far, No more buying from 3rd party resellers and etc.

    Besides, Maybe it is possible to implement a withdrawel system, Take a % of the withdrawel amount, In handling fee. that also allows for profit. Thats one way to find a solution. Anyhow many like me, Most likely will never withdrawel. 🙂

    I really hope you reach your goal Micheal. And i really hope i reach mine, To see all my creations and my avatar (born in 2004) again. Even though i got a good real life, With a wonderfull engeaged, and lots to do in my life, So much that i almost have no time to play, still haunts my dreams, And the hope it will re open has stayed. And i think the day will come, When a letter inside my email says, “ is back!”.!!! It will be insane! 🙂

  120. #224 by NoBioN on 2011.04.16 - 11:44 am

    Because of over thousands replies, I can’t look them through to get more info on what im going to ask.

    Anyhow we spoke earlier regarding if we can recover our accounts and possesions, if the game will re open, Speaking on my own behalf, I’d be much more willing to pay more, if i can get back my items. and that meens also most of what looked like when it shut down, A revival so to speak.

    I had several dreams at night (and this is no joke). That is re opening, In many ways and forms, But if the day comes, (and most likely only if i get back my avatar and possesions). i will jump and say “YES!”. I hope my dream will eventually come true, I used to spend alot of money every month in Which im also prepared to do, If i get my account back, Anyhow my motivation to do so will fall drastic, if my possesions are not recovered, since alot of money was lost in March 9th, for many many people, also including myself. besides the loss of your avatar, In many cases. Almost a decade old avatar.

    Also, Money was compensated (1 or 2 months of deposits previous to the closure). Make it a requirement, that if to get your old account back, you must repay the amount of $ that was compensated, That would only be fair, For makena,

    Crossing fingers 😉

  121. #225 by Tollermike on 2011.04.16 - 11:22 am

    MW, It looks like you are exploring options using Cloud Services. You might take a look at these guys: In particular take a look at 6Fusion’s iNode Network. This platform offers computing on demand in a pay per use model. Good luck and I’ll be There if it opens. TM

  122. #226 by Austin B on 2011.04.16 - 10:59 am

    If your worried about the number of people willing to pay, you can always try to do a “prepay” thing. Ask people to buy 6 months of membership x months before There opens. If There doesn’t reopen in x months, just refund it. Of course, this would only represent a portion of the community for several reasons. Among them, some cannot afford to pay six months ahead of time, and others are going to have trust issues (Im not entering the dabate of whether these are warranted). However, it would still provide you with some insight. (You also may have to offer some incentive.)

    And if all else fails, you can sell those AWESOME leather THERE CD cases (from beta). 🙂

  123. #227 by DJ Hall on 2011.04.16 - 10:40 am

    btw when I said.. “That will be pretty common when that happens” I was referring to, people cussing on an 18 + year old game.. not the fact anyone would do it to make anyone mad, My bad for not going into detail about that.

  124. #228 by DJ Hall on 2011.04.16 - 10:38 am

    I’m not threatening anyone, I’m just saying.. Would I be? I’m not trying to come off as anything, it’s just kinda hard trying to explain how I’m saying this because it’s over the internet, Michael Wilson.

    • #229 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.16 - 3:39 pm

      Perhaps your “I’m not trying to come off as anything” is true, but there are quite a few people commenting in this blog that think it would be a disaster if they were not let back into There2 even though they were banned, in many different avatars.
      I personally have seen cases of a couple of people who are commenting here, warned several times by Helpers who finally got tired of listening to the abuse and swearing and they just banned the person only to have that person come back in a few minutes, in a different avie, and start the abuse all over again.
      In every case, the people knew that they were walking a thin line and it became a game to see what they could get away with.
      Now these same people seem to have gotten religion and would be “willing” to contribute if their bans were lifted.
      DJ, its not the fact that There2 will be 18+. The fact is that There was PG13 and all of those banned for whatever reason, knew better and just crossed the line once to often.

  125. #230 by Maloree on 2011.04.16 - 8:01 am

    Everyone keeps messaging me on youtube and facebook saying there’s re-opening for sure… is it?? Also, if you were banned on the other game will you still be banned on this one?.. haha

    • #231 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.16 - 11:49 am

      yep michael already said it if u took the survey you will be banned if you were before there closed

  126. #232 by SaltySilver on 2011.04.16 - 5:20 am

    Michael Wilson,
    Have Chrile Sheen to log into and talk about it. That would be some “I’m bi-winning.” advertising. 😀

    • #233 by MT on 2011.04.16 - 8:11 am


      Charlie would have to launch fastballs, torpedoes.. Duh. Winning!!

      Serious note: The prospect of There reopening is definitely an interesting one for sure. I’m checking this blog once a day for any updates.. While the optimism is there to be able to do see some old buds and do some racing again, also weigh the fact that there may not be enough support to reopen the world. Hopefully it occurs, but.. you never know!

    • #234 by Brandyn_1 on 2011.04.16 - 9:40 am

      ROFL Well all he would say is “Duh winning!!” or “ has Tiger Blood” haha 😀

    • #235 by Summer on 2011.04.16 - 12:11 pm

      You are not thinking straight Salty. Today is Saterday, right teacher?
      Any idea how much that nutbar Charlie Sheen would charge for something like that?
      Try “bi-losing.”

  127. #236 by mimi06 on 2011.04.16 - 3:26 am

    😦 new computer, new e-mail…how can I be part of mass email? can you take the emails from this blog as well? (computer dummy here)

    • #237 by Cosmic on 2011.04.16 - 8:08 am

      You all ready know about the possible reopening so no worries 🙂 Also having a new computer doesn’t mean you cant access your old email, does it???

      • #238 by Dolphin on 2011.04.16 - 10:54 am

        New computer and new email addy here also. And no I don’t have access to my old email as it was infected with a virus :O.

      • #239 by mimi06 on 2011.04.16 - 1:22 pm

        in my case, yes. lost it e-mail acct. no way to go back

  128. #240 by Linwood on 2011.04.15 - 8:18 pm

    I certainly appreciate the quick reply.

    I’m certainly one that doesn’t like the idea of layering the world, however it might be an avenue to survey about considering how transparent it would be when used for a funzone.

    Truth be told I’d like to see reopen as it was certainly a nice escape from the “day to day” and I’d like the opportunity to run the funzone again. I hope it all works out for all involved, I run a business and couldn’t imagine running it at a loss as long as you did There, its obvious it means a lot to you. Hopefully it makes everyone at Makena a ton of money the second time around ( not sarcasm, I have no problem seeing people do well. )

    Good luck.

  129. #241 by Linwood on 2011.04.15 - 7:58 pm

    Michael Wilson,
    It would seem based on the above comments by yourself and others that you have a strong desire to see reopen to its previous membership as well as those that have yet to experience the world. If the survey does not yield the expected results (by your own comment we are at approx half the required number), it seems unlikely that you are one to give up on the task of seeing There make a comeback. What if anything would make you attempt to open it again if this course of action fails?( obviously appealing to community a 2nd time would likely yield less favorable results) Does the idea of coming back just fade away or is there something else that would give you hope enough to take the plunge of opening its doors?

    Also, you’ve indicated earlier in this thread that user run zones would be charged on a server usage basis. Can you give some Idea as to the rental of a funzone? I was the last renter on “upper tiki valley” and certainly a factor for a lot of people in their return is whether it will be affordable to maintain both a funzone and a membership. I believe the rate I was paying was around $80 for the funzone when closed last year. If that figure was to remain the same, would there be profit enough to put attention on making them more accessible?

    Will we see any type of layering system for the funzones? Ex. entering the zone from the main world would teleport you to the layer that you select from a list, thus allowing for one zone in the game world to have multiple instances based on the virtual servers you described before. I know I waited quite a long time before renting a funzone due to the availability of racezones and even after I made the purchase I recieved at least 6 offers to buy it from me. It seems having more availability would certainly increase profits; if there were profits enough to be had from that of course.

    my two cents

    • #242 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.15 - 8:07 pm

      I don’t know how to answer your first question. Clearly we have an interest in re-opening There otherwise I wouldn’t be here answering questions. The bottom line is that it has to be a viable business to re-open. We believe we’ve made great strides in reducing costs, but we can’t run the service without some people. As I’ve said, my intention is to be as transparent as possible about our costs (without, of course, giving up personal information), so people will know where we stand.

      For example, I know, from reading the comments here, that many people innocently don’t know what advertising costs, or how ineffective advertising can be. I remember (this is a true story) how excited we were at eBay the first time we did a radio ad (“Radio Works”) because we got a huge uptick in visits, but then were subsequently disappointed when those visitors didn’t end up .. spending, which was the end result. I think that if we do re-open, there’s going to a lot of collective learning about “Well, why dom’t you spend $1000 on ads”, and we do, and no one sees a single ad because that’s just the way it works.

      I don’t know if that helps you any.

      On the costs, I don’t have that answer yet because we’re still pricing options. At one member’s prompting, we looked into other hosting providers, and found that at least one doesn’t advertise all the pricing plans they offer, and may be worth considering. Makes it real easy, huh?

      Universally, we found that layers were hated across the board. I’m not sure we’d offer them for Fun Zones. :-).

  130. #243 by KevinF on 2011.04.15 - 6:18 pm

    Also, is the lifting of particular suspensions (namely those involving PG13 violations) something you are considering? Or is that idea completely out of the question?

  131. #244 by Puddlefish on 2011.04.15 - 6:02 pm

    I fear that great expectations will meet reality, and the almighty dollar will dictate that an entire existence measures unworthy of the potential to continue….

    • #245 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.15 - 6:13 pm

      I’m not sure how to respond to this. I’ll just say “42”.

      • #246 by Puddlefish on 2011.04.16 - 12:29 pm

        …insert Public Service Announcement about the perils of drunk commenting

      • #247 by Skyefire on 2011.04.16 - 9:25 pm

        That comment made my kid laugh. Any reference to the number 42 is freakin hysterical to her.

    • #248 by there_forever on 2011.04.16 - 4:18 am

      You wish…

  132. #249 by KevinF on 2011.04.15 - 5:50 pm

    Mr Wilson, in all fairness – the implementation of video proof as a means of reporting someone had a pretty devastating effect. The common result being people stalking their foes purposely trying to get them removed.

    Aside from that, what are your thoughts on the current amount of survey responses?

    • #250 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.15 - 5:56 pm

      My views are this: if this is 2X the number of people who will pay, then we have a problem. If this is 1/2 the number of people who will pay (and let’s hope the mass mailing shows that), then we’re ok.

      That’s using conservative, subscription-only numbers, and not picking a monthly rate yet.

      That is all I know at this time.

  133. #251 by Jordan on 2011.04.15 - 5:32 pm

    Hey Micheal, I don’t want to be a party pooper, in fact I really want there back but lets face it, out of the 1,300+ people who take the survey (if there re-opens) and in a few months what if people don’t keep their promise and pay? There will be in the same predicament facing closure again.

    • #252 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.15 - 5:41 pm

      Well, what do you think will happen?

      • #253 by Jordan on 2011.04.15 - 7:24 pm

        If this would to happen, there would close again and break everyones hearts yet again, I really wish the best because is a unique game that many enjoyed as well as I did. I guess all we can do is hope for the best.

  134. #254 by michael on 2011.04.15 - 5:19 pm


  135. #255 by Taelos on 2011.04.15 - 5:07 pm

    Would not be right not to comment here. Particularly after reading all the previous comments (/cough cough Tollermike… READ man lol).

    Michael, you might want to consider the model Cyan is using with the Uru re-opening. (Ironically it was opened for the Nth time about a month before shut down.)

    Seriously, Uru has been running for over a year with just member donations made via PayPal. Many like me donate in the 3 digits, some in the 4 digits, each month! Why settle for $120 a year when you could get more?

    Or perhaps a hybrid model, where all members are charged a monthly fee. Special projects could then be funded by PayPal donations?


  136. #256 by Tollermike on 2011.04.15 - 3:37 pm

    I haven’t read all 1078 comments ( but I will 🙂 ). Assuming There opens, is the developer program going to be the same process as before for the foreseeable future, or do you have something else in mind? I hope that after you analyize the data, that you can make the call to open. It would be truely refreshing and a big eye opener for alot of people here to see just what it takes to run a business like this. hmmm Opensource business model. Thanks for even thinking about it.


  137. #257 by jaybee on 2011.04.15 - 3:18 pm

    how come there isn’t a link on or anything telling people to take the survey? just wondering 🙂

    • #258 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.15 - 3:20 pm

      We didn’t do that because the site gets hardly any traffic.

      I’m going to put one in next week. Got caught up with other things this week…

  138. #259 by Lady Gaga on 2011.04.15 - 1:22 pm

    im just a holy fool oh baby its so cruel, but im still in love with JUDAS baby

  139. #260 by DJ Hall on 2011.04.15 - 1:18 pm

    Michael Wilson, I was wondering.. if I was banned say like 4 years ago or something for cursing.. would you unban me if “there2” is gonna be 18 + because I’m pretty sure that will be pretty common when that happens.

    • #261 by pHluid13 on 2011.04.15 - 2:14 pm

      Dj Hall, forgive me for using your post for a response but I am seeing a lot of people asking to be unbanned. My perception is this: I’m not quite sure if the bigger issue here is with the cussing as much as following instructions/warnings. If there was an issue with cussing in the past, then you must have been warned about it first before you were banned and still continued to do what you were told not to do, whats to stop you from following warnings in the future? I know people learn their lessons and maturity begins to set in so I am ALL FOR giving people second chances. However, I am also a devil’s advocate who likes to see both sides. Just a thought so I don’t know what Mr. Wilson’s take on this is but I think the focus is getting the vast unbanned user base on-board first and then deal with these banning issues later. First step is getting the kind of response in the survey that Mr. Wilson is expecting. Let’s focus all our efforts on getting people to take the survey first and then revisit Mr. Wilson with these ideas later. I feel like we’re inundating him with issues that need no thought at this stage in the game.

      Again, not putting you on the spot and I feel bad for using your comment as the example but wanted to put that out there. =)

    • #262 by Roxannie on 2011.04.15 - 4:38 pm

      in earlier posts it said there will be no one allowed back that was banned, even if it was because of an pg13 violation, which i don’t agree with, but i won’t fight it since i wasn’t banned

      • #263 by jimony on 2011.04.16 - 7:07 am

        That isn’t exactly what was said. It was stated that members who were banned for PG-13 and TOS violations would stay banned.

    • #264 by Summer on 2011.04.15 - 5:25 pm

      Dont bring back banned members, lose a decent amount of money. Your choice.

      • #265 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.15 - 5:41 pm

        Threats are SO becoming. Very helpful! Thanks!

      • #266 by Summer on 2011.04.15 - 7:55 pm

        I guess the truth hurts. D:
        I dont see threats in what was said.

        You’re welcome. 🙂

      • #267 by DJ Hall on 2011.04.16 - 10:49 am

        Summer, Here’s the thing though.. Some banned members deserved it.. they scammed real money from real people which is not only illegal in the game.. it’s actually illegal in real life (Obviously) ha.. Anyways Alot of people I knew.. Got banned for alot of stuff they should of had to be banned for. For example I got banned for cursing, which at the time was wrong but hey I’ve matured from that.. I guess it taught me a lesson. The thing was, alot of the time I was getting banned cursing it was because of people constantly griefing me, which is FINE because it’s something you gotta expect dealing in paintball zones with kids that would spend 100s of dollars just to be able to shoot everyone up and down.. which is sweet and all. The only thing I didn’t get was.. Why did you make a button to unfilter cussing but then when people got mad and started cussing they got suspesions and bans and etc. But at the same time that was happening you’d see a bunch of 18 year old kids, griefing some little kid on microphone (no i’m not talking about me) but i’ve seen it happen to many people. That’s how most people end up cussing as well.. Because they will get cussed out on mic and as soon as they say something on text.. Boom you’re gone. I’m just trying to prove valid reasoning here.

      • #268 by DJ Hall on 2011.04.16 - 10:52 am

        Btw I mean “Stuff they shouldn’t of had to be banned for” not should of. My bad.

  140. #269 by there_forever on 2011.04.15 - 12:59 pm

    I need to ask a tech question. just because I am curious when it comes to tech info. If possible would u be able to tell us roughly how many servers will be needed “in the cloud” and what kind or cloud servers are required. High memory or high cpu servers and how ‘high’ they will be?

  141. #270 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.15 - 11:36 am

    we there does reopen wonder if wel ever see cosmo with 50+ people again hopefully we will i also miss the there games alot

  142. #271 by Therians Fan on 2011.04.15 - 10:56 am

    I was wondering, after CosmoGirl went out of business, back in 2009, how come the free accounts for CosmoGirl was still going on? I had a feeling that hurt market industry a bit, with the free voice. Was CosmoGirl still paying for all of the avatars that were being created after their shut down with their magazine company? Whatever happened with Yahoo!? I remember I saw Yahoo! was sponsoring, but we didn’t hear too much about it.

  143. #272 by kevinf on 2011.04.15 - 8:20 am

    With all do respect Marianne I think you’ve completely missed the ball. I think the best form of advertising, given’s vast database, would be the issuing of catalogues I think the company could accrue exponential growth by showcasing their virtual goods.

    (I have edited this comment slightly – M Wilson)

    • #273 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.15 - 3:55 pm

      Thank you, now I can reflect on my 30 years in marketing as completely missing the ball! hehe Sadly though, and seriously, you are right about showcasing the goods! Yet THERE did have a wonderful, sortable Ebay-ish (thx MW) catalogue called auctions that contained every single designer product and it was marketed to every single user of THERE regularly.

      Apparently not only was THERE unable to achieve exponential growth with this catalogue – but despite the fabulous electronic catalogue was forced to close its doors for lack of revenue.

      The proof in reality was that marketing to existing users narrowed the potential to a limited audience — as compared to the millions of potential subscriber found through Facebook, Myspace, YouTube – as Craven discussed.

      Anywho I think we can all agree that we want THERE to re-open, and I’m certain MW has the right resources to advise him.

      • #274 by Roxannie on 2011.04.15 - 4:42 pm

        you forgot to mention Dr. Phil, rofl, that was some good advertising for sure

  144. #275 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.15 - 6:39 am

    PSPS After thinking about the easiest way to segment the world into the focus groups, I believe it would be by restricting geographic access. This should be the simplest manner. Downside? Users don’t mingle. Facts? They segregated themselves anyway when offered full access: SpaceStations, HippyBeach, Buggy Races, Hoods. When they did convene in non-focused areas like Duda, frankly they came looking for a fight. People like to fight and bicker. That’s ok too, but with no <18, let em fight or tell em to leave/ignore. No need to moderate.

    • #276 by Innie on 2011.04.15 - 11:04 am

      Marianne, you mean “That’s ok too, but with no (less than) >18, let em fight or tell em to leave/ignore. No need to moderate.” ??

      • #277 by jimony on 2011.04.15 - 1:22 pm

        Innie, 1313 (13 is less than18 and18 is greater then 13).
        Therefore, “with no <18" means "with no (less than) 18".
        This is the second time I have seen this get confused. The wide edge represents the bigger number.
        Surely math hasn't changed so much since I was in school for this to have been reversed?

        To me Marianne sounds like a valuable asset to have on There's side.

      • #278 by MissMostOfYou on 2011.04.15 - 1:51 pm

        Less Than and Greater Than

        As well as the familiar equals sign (=) it is also very useful to show if something is not equal to (≠) greater than (>) or less than (<)

        These are the important signs to know:

        = If two values are equal, we use the "equals" sign
        example: 2+2 = 4
        ≠ If two values are definitely not equal, we use the "not equal to" sign
        example: 2+2 ≠ 9
        < But if one value is smaller than another, we can use a "less than" sign.
        example: 3 And if one value is bigger than another, we can use a “greater than” sign
        example: 9 > 6

        The “less than” sign and the “greater than” sign look like a “V” on its side, don’t they?

        To remember which way around the “” signs go, just remember:

        •BIG > small
        •small < BIG

    • #279 by 1969Craven on 2011.04.15 - 3:01 pm

      JoyofLife, I agree with some aspects of your comments.. however, as to restricting geographic access .. um.. no … thats what made great.. as for the marketing aspect. if you want my opinion.(and your gonna get needs to go away from the 3d world “game” tieing them in with SL and other VW (with all the remaining the same as it was when we left) to market more as a LIVE FACEBOOK or LIVE MYSPACE.. visit your family or friends in there own virtual world home.. post family/friends/life pics right in your house.(maybe link them up with their FB or MS) . meet up with old schoolmates and family and play games with them in real time, talk to them LIVE Voice with no phone bill.. got that old bully from highschool.. paint ball his/her butt! facebook and myspace are years behind the possibilities of However, it needs to be marketed correctly.. IE radio ad: “Wow john your not gonna believe this .. I found our long lost cousin jane on haven’t spoke to her in 10 years! we are playing cards right now.. and talking live. OMG you should see the pics of her kids.. they are all grown up now..dang josh got FAT! (oh no grandma just ran over uncle tim!) here want to talk to them.. radio voice.. ONLY POSSIBLE ON THERE.COM.” (you think facebook had all your friends and relatives on when it started..NO but thats how they marketed it and it worked.. in addition the celebs from VMTV .. visiting once and a while.. ( I made the official buggy for waiting for Wyatt when they came) would not hurt.. and there are so many media whores right now.. I’m sure you can get many to do it for free! So in conclusion you can leave EXACTLY the way it was when we left.. just use a little different marketing strategy. – they didn’t go for the big sponsors like coke and pepsi. .they went for the people and then the sponsors came knocking.. Think of it this way . we are offering the same capabilities as facebook, myspace and twitter combined. only better. you can hang out LIVE … thats just my thoughts on the subject.. agree or disagree fine with me.. 🙂 the way .. thats the direction always the way I saw going on its own.. without the push.. as far as to market it to individuals that surf or skate board race or any of the things we love.. marketing wise.. all I got to say is umm Xbox .. playstation and WII …… yeah they took that .. there is no online game that can compete. Do you know why there is always a McDonald’s across from Burger King? its not by mistake trust me.. to explode THERE.COM .. LETS BE RIGHT ACCROSS THE STREET FROM MS, FB and Twitter. OMG I realize I am rambling and giving out all this for free.. MW I want my avi back free… JK 🙂 .. P.S. I use the words us and we because I have been part of the VMTV and THERE family for years Crew member in one and a IG in the other.. and feel that it is my home that I want back!

      • #280 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.15 - 3:39 pm

        Hi Craven. Yes! Exactly… what you describe is what I termed “Viral Marketing” the use of the available social network programs to harness not only the power of the THERE product message BUT also individual subscriber’s marketing their use of THERE to their “network” of friends and family. Yes!

        I also agree that THERE’s full featured-ness (made up word hehe) IS IT’S ADVANTAGE, but my point is only that often people can relate directly and more specifically to a single element. I cannot otherwise understand why simple silly games, and arcades do so well. Segmenting is a pretty common marketing strategy … like Toyota doesn’t make one car that is a utility, luxury, sedan sports car (Porsche does that)… instead they segment their cars up and down the range to target specific audience’s hot button thereby selling more product.

        Your ideas about free phone too are great… better than skype as a little avie is there too. I saw that the SAIC OLIVE has robust video and file sharing (up to 5 screens at once) so there’s another great business oriented tool.

        Thanks for the feedback! Happy Happy Joy Joy

        I would buy all features, but we were thinking how it might be possible to “start” folks in a low cost narrow option, and let them build or migrate to the full subscription after tasting THERE.

  145. #281 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.15 - 6:26 am

    PS If your marketing people were telling you that the way to improve revenue was to make the users happier and to add more features….. you were surrounded by the wrong people. The plain fact is that products with far less in user coddling and far less in actual features have done well (ie shoot ‘m games). Marketing should expose a product to the widest and most focused groups of potential buyers. With the enviable range of targetable activities THERE contains…. it is a marketeer’s dream project. With the free marketing tools available today, execution of such a focus-group marketing program could garner huge pre-launch populations. I’d like to talk specifics of such a program and no inception cost to you ~ and executed prior to full launch at little cost to you or Makena.

  146. #282 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.15 - 5:21 am

    I will lick stamps. From today’s posted survey : Approx 1,800 ppl responding = $19k/mo; $230k/yr. Easily, just THERE veterans who have not yet responded will double that amount and the mailer plus low-cost Facebook/viral marketing could add another 100% for total of: approx $80k/mo for $960k/yr. These should be encouraging numbers MW? May I contact you privately regarding capital investment? Google me for resume/background in software marketing in So Cal. Thank you, Marianne Mohr.

    • #283 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.15 - 5:31 am

      Yes, that’s one way of looking at it.

      The other way is this: XMarks, which was a very popular site and plug-in for synchronizing bookmarks between computers, ran for years on a free + sort-of-premium model. After years of operation, they decided to cease operations. As a last ditch effort, they put up a PledgeMe to see how many people would pay for the service. Many responded, and they got bought.

      After 6 months, do you know how many people actually kept their promise and paid ? (not “signed up and paid after 6 months”, but signed up at all)?


      See, those are the scenarios which frighten me the most.

      • #284 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.15 - 6:08 am

        I understand about the drop-off. That is the greatest concern to build a model on certain expectations. BUT I think the world’s changed a little… a lot. Viral marketing was not a “force” and if harnessed virtually (yukyuk) enables a no-cost marketing paradigm and huge exposure. I mean how can something as flat in real depth of offering like Facebook, do what they have done? With virtually no “product” at all (from user standpoint)? Viral, personal, exposure. That’s about what they offer. I mean it’s ridiculous, I put my data up on a few social networking products and now I appear everywhere. My marketing was 100% free and millions of people are exposed. Opposed to most “user” thinking, I feel from a Marketing perspective that THERE offered too much at once. If I was designing the marketing program I’d segment the offering into succinct focus groups: ThereIM, TherePAINTBALL GALLERY, TherePETS, ThereHOMES, BUGGYThere, SKATEBOARDThere, ThereFASHIONS, VideoTHERE, FRIENDSinThere. Each of these target whole differing audiences and commercial sponsorship oppty. Like you said earlier, sponsors don’t care about 1000s of subscribers …they want millions of “hits”. How many skateboarders/surfers are there in USA? Target them only. Pet Lovers? Them only. Girls who love clothing? Them only. Build gardens? Them only. See where I am going? Imagine building the audience for these targeted markets – then go to advertisers to sell the HITS, not the subscribers. Geesh just look at all the other simple componental products doing very well: profiles only, videos only, little farms only. All these products have huge followings. Why? Folks are simple. They resonant and understand ONE thing at a time. If I was the Marketing Director at Makena, I would segment the offering providing specialized entry points and viral market the hell out of each. Each with at least as much free advertising as I’ve garnered myself. No need for maintained websites for each, just Facebook etal, Youtubes, and front end “pages” on THERE.COM collecting email addresses for newsletters which may include free day passes. Build the HITS, sell the focus group to advertisers, automate everything (same newsletter format for each segment). These entry points of succinct interest/audience could then lead to the full offering at a high premium with full, no incremental costs ie unlimited paintball at a high monthly or annual rate like $199/yr. I’ve often wondered with such a full offering THERE provided why ppl were constantly wanting more improvements and had so many complaints. Back to the need to focus ppl on ONE activity. They only get more demanding with more. Farmville makes me crazy, if a flat silly thing like this garners fame and success, why on earth didn’t THERE? Of course there woould be programatic issues – but as a marketeer in the software industry since 1979, I KNOW THAT TURNING OFF ACCESS is easier than “adding more features”. Perhaps some of these ideas are valid? I would appreciate the oppty to discuss privately capital investment and marketing programs along these lines if you are interested.

      • #285 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.15 - 7:19 am

        The interesting thing is that we actually tried that, with targeted ad buys and landing pages for at least 3 of the categories you suggested. We also had experience with indirectly targetting some of these area through VMTV and Cosmo Girl.

        The net for the former was almost no uptake and conversion (I was shocked). The net for the latter was much higher in membership, but not necessarily in spenders (I can’t say too much here).

        So, great minds think alike. :-

      • #286 by there_forever on 2011.04.15 - 6:41 am

        Thats probably because there are dozens of bookmark synchronizers around on the internet and most of them free.
        The difference is that ‘There’ is unique in its category and there isn’t any other VW similar to it.
        If it was built on Unitiy3D or on the SL grid things would be different.

      • #287 by Winston on 2011.04.15 - 7:41 am

        I think your fears are well founded actually. You lose 12% of your “willing to pay” numbers just based on the 6 to 12 month pre-pay scenario. But are you relying solely on memberships to keep the place going? There’s biggest money makers must have been PAZs and neighborhoods right? Essentially allowing a person to buy or rent “space” on a server. With lower hosting costs you could make more on those. How about an annual “Pledge Drive” like PBS or NPR? Have membership levels like Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum and at each level you receive a unique item that is worth vastly less than the pledge amount. “Therians who sign up at the Platinum level will receive an old tennis shoe signed by the entire staff of Makena Tech.” I imagine you’ve already been brainstorming “what next” options but I’m just throwing stuff at the wall, so to speak.

      • #288 by Jonathan on 2011.04.15 - 9:39 am

        “If it was built on Unitiy3D or on the SL grid things would be different.”

        Yes, it would be different… it would be s**t!

      • #289 by Innie on 2011.04.15 - 10:59 am

        MW, there is one glaring difference between then and now. I have always loved There, since closed Beta. However, when it became teen land it was very off putting. I even left because i got sick of being cussed out, abused, etc. in There by kids. I have my own kids to deal with, I dont want to deal with baby-sitting other people’s kids.

        Now that this will change, and if it gets pushed as an 18+ (non-porn) world, you might be surprised at the response.

  147. #290 by 73Bobby on 2011.04.15 - 3:16 am

    we all appericate what you are doing to give us back there, we all have many memories , and wish to see our friends again, see at lot of useful comments so what ever I put in you aleardy have seen. hope your project is a success many thanks

  148. #291 by JadenSmith on 2011.04.15 - 2:28 am

    Theirs going be a noob land? O_o..

  149. #292 by KevinF on 2011.04.15 - 1:20 am

    I think you guys should implement a direct mail advertising. Probably the best way to reach the depths of there’s community.

    • #293 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.15 - 4:10 am

      We would, but there’s no one to lick the stamps.

      • #294 by Ant1977 on 2011.04.15 - 5:01 am

        I will be more than happy to take two weeks off and moisten stamps if there was a chance that we’ll see a re-opening.

      • #295 by Roxannie on 2011.04.15 - 4:54 pm

        2 words ~ wet sponge

      • #296 by Flygirl_Dani on 2011.04.15 - 9:26 pm

        LOLZ dont u know they have sticker stamps now.. WOOOT just rip n stick!

  150. #297 by Machinegunner on 2011.04.14 - 11:16 pm

    How many votes are you expecting for the 10$/month so that there has chances of re opening MW?

  151. #298 by pSychocent on 2011.04.14 - 8:30 pm

    It would be great to see There return but caution people, I would hate for you to get your hopes up and then get crushed again. I hope this survey gets out to as many members as it can. I wouldn’t feel insulted or spammed if Makena did a mass e-mail. Good luck Therians and Makena.

  152. #299 by Aradriel on 2011.04.14 - 6:14 pm

    Hi Michael Wilson!

    Quick question (and huge apologies if this has been asked and answered – I’ve been reading these comments daily but I easily could’ve missed it), if we owned a deed on a funzone when There closed, would we get it back? Since it was in my inventory, but not sure if this would be different.

    I’m SO thrilled at the prospect of There returning. I played it with my mom, and made dozens of amazing friends during my years in There. Both her and I would gladly spend $20/month on a subscription. Like many of you, I’ve tried the other virtual worlds out there, and nothing even comes CLOSE to There. THANK YOU to MW and Makena for trying to make this happen!

    Much love to my There friends! ❤

  153. #300 by Joeydantonio on 2011.04.14 - 5:53 pm

    If there re-opens, no more neighborhoods or real-estate?

    • #301 by Joeydantonio on 2011.04.14 - 8:26 pm

      I have been noticing most recent comments/answers hinting that neighborhoods might no longer exist. I hope neighborhoods will still exist, I miss decorating mine! 😛

      • #302 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.14 - 8:41 pm

        Those are rumors. No one from Makena has spoken those words.

      • #303 by Joeydantonio on 2011.04.15 - 8:37 am

        Awesome, I was hoping they were! Makena never dissapoints! Thanks! 🙂

  154. #304 by jaybee on 2011.04.14 - 5:30 pm

    Michael, just out of curiosity, how many people were premium members before THERE closed?

  155. #305 by ltbigdog on 2011.04.14 - 4:51 pm

    If at the end of the survey there was enough positive results to re-open have you figured out a time frame when you would try be be back up and running. A week,month, sometime in the fall?
    Not sure if this was asked

    • #306 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.14 - 6:25 pm

      No, we have not. Depends how if we need to do additional work to support multiple accounts, trial members, how we will be supporting zones and hoods in a world where the servers come and go, and, of course, “Carbonite Valley”.

  156. #307 by A sad person on 2011.04.14 - 4:15 pm

    I cannot wait for my world to reopen

  157. #308 by Wendy Stoll on 2011.04.14 - 3:01 pm

    What I don’t get it is why so many people say they “lost” money when There closed. Did you lose money when you paid for a movie and you had to leave when it was over? Did you lose money when you bought a six-pack of beer, and after you drank it, it was gone? Did you lose money because you went on a vacation, and then it was over? There was not an investment portfolio! All the designers that “lost” money when There closed aren’t mentioning all the money they made when There was open. I don’t believe anyone guaranteed “forever.”

    Just the view from my window.

    • #309 by Skyefire on 2011.04.15 - 8:55 am

      Wendy, I’ve seen a few designers talk about the money they made, and most the people I’ve heard complaining about losing money weren’t designers, or weren’t big enough to have been making much. I think a few loud people have made the rest of us Therians look a lot whinier than we actually are.

      What I have definitely seen a number of times now is successful designers talking about how if it weren’t for There, they wouldn’t have gotten into this, or at least that they learned the trade in There.

      • #310 by Wendy Stoll on 2011.04.15 - 12:24 pm

        Good to know, Skye 🙂 Thanks!

  158. #311 by Amanda on 2011.04.14 - 2:46 pm

    Hey Mw a big wave, one question- do you have an idea of when you have the results ? when will yo be showing them up? thanks :]

  159. #312 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.14 - 2:43 pm

    Hey Michael,
    I was number 1000 here .. I expect at least something for being 1000th and defending There in the process LOLOL
    Didn’t think I would notice huh 🙂
    How about a years free membership ..
    NAH, never mind, I will just be happy as hell to be in world again and be able to contribute to your/our success this time.

    • #313 by Machinegunner on 2011.04.14 - 11:14 pm

      Your now #1023 and probably will be go higher.

  160. #314 by MT on 2011.04.14 - 2:33 pm

    Can we have updated poll results if possible?

  161. #315 by Mr_donenzone on 2011.04.14 - 11:38 am

    Hey Mr. Wilson,

    If you do decide to reopen, will our lots and houses still be up

    • #316 by OdileS AKA MmeOdile on 2011.04.14 - 1:02 pm

      Not!!!! Let’s not head over there, but lets head over to ‘THERE’…

      knock knock.
      Whose there?
      There who?
      They’re THERE, You know….The best game in the world!!! 😉

    • #317 by Brandyn_1 on 2011.04.14 - 2:01 pm

      I would like o know this also.. I know neighborhood lots will not be up mainly because there is no hoods.. but will Paz’s still be out? ect?

      • #318 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.14 - 2:06 pm

        We’re not sure if Lots will be out at opening due to the fact that Lots will be hosted on virtual servers which will only be up when the owner wants them up. Not clear yet.

        In any case, if you were over 18 and owned a lot, we’ll figure it out when you return to the world, if we re-open.

      • #319 by Brandyn_1 on 2011.04.14 - 2:10 pm

        What about Paz’s days on them? Will the amount of days still be the same as they were when closed? I know many people had lots of days on there Paz’s some even had years.

      • #320 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.14 - 3:16 pm

        Darn. We’re still only at: “IF we re-open”? Aren’t we getting closer to what Makena would need to re-open? Just think of the splash it would make in the virtual communities, like a Phoenix from the ashes!! (not asses). Is there anything the fervent among us could do to positively influence your decision? Would a couple $100k capital infusion help?

  162. #321 by The Truth on 2011.04.14 - 11:36 am

    I think it’s hilarious that charging people to use There is even considered for a split-second! I mean sure, the people who are obsessed with waxing nostalgic may pay a pretty penny, but what prospective new user in their right mind would pay to use There when they can just go to SL or Kaneva for free?

    • #322 by The Truth on 2011.04.14 - 11:37 am

      Let’s also not forget Real Life Plus which will be free when it opens.

      • #323 by there_forever on 2011.04.14 - 12:30 pm

        Perhaps we should also go to NowYow Truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • #324 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.14 - 12:56 pm

        My question to you is, who in there right mind, after enjoying There and all that it had to offer would even consider any one of your choices?
        Have you ever paintballed, buggy raced or floated on a hover boat over any of There? Bought a Paz, a house and decorated it?
        I have been in all the places you have mentioned and NONE of them even compare to what There was and will be in a few months.
        Don’t let me down here Michael 🙂

      • #325 by Wendy Stoll on 2011.04.14 - 12:59 pm

        None of those places has anything on There. SL costs if you want to do anything; Kaneva is DULL; there’s not much of anything to do. RLP is an unknown quantity. I’ve seen a lot of what they’re doing and it looks very good…but so far the only things going on is fashion. There are SO many things to do in There, and it is also a continuous world, which none of the others is. It’s like saying, why would anyone pay for World of Warcraft when Perfect Worlds is free. It’s free because it’s just not nearly as good, and I don’t see WoW losing anything because it exists.

    • #326 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.14 - 11:39 am

      My goodness you’re right. Let’s all head over there!

    • #327 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.14 - 12:11 pm

      dont compare those 2 to there are hundreds of SL’s style of games & kaneva doesent get more than 50 people online a day if you gonna post negative comments stay out & youre probably under 18 or either banned to not be happy that will reopen if we do this

      • #328 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.14 - 12:55 pm

        Now, now, none of that here. 🙂

      • #329 by Joeydantonio on 2011.04.14 - 1:31 pm

        I think I had more people in one of my neighborhoods on at a time in one hour than kaneva has in the whole world in a weeks time.

    • #330 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.14 - 12:56 pm

      People will pay for the reasons AS ALMOST EVERYONE HEAR ATTESTS: SL and the other games are not complete, easy, full of fun sports/vehicles, games, fully-operational physics, and a seamless world. In other words THEY SUCK. I am not waxing nostalgic and neither are the other thousand people here. Folks who want to pay a mere $20 bucks a month (more or less the cost of one meal a month) want to do so because they FIND VALUE in the complete offering THERE provides. That’s why 86% of the people responding to the survey said THEY WOULD PAY. Do you really think SL and Kaneva wish and hope their free members never buy anything? Never contribute to the operations costs? Nope they simply find other ways to charge users sooner or later. What I think is hysterical is that batshit ppl like you want everyone ELSE to pay for their good time and be cynical to boot. If you don’t value THERE why be here, why even bother complaining? Go play on SL.

    • #331 by SpeedRacer2 on 2011.04.14 - 2:18 pm

      Hang about you mong! look at SL as in premium look at how many bluddy dollars if not pounds are you an idiot or just an idiot lmao why dont you marry SL…. MW has give us the better option of having our real homes back!!!!!!!!! I love the name The Truth how about no! go and live in SL because almost everyone in SL is ready unlike you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLUS THERE.COM Pay them for the staffing and keeping the world lag free!!!!!!! oh and nob free! so Go and marry it hypercrit

      • #332 by kudosRetalian on 2011.04.14 - 11:12 pm

        Hey, the man just had his own opinion chill out!

    • #333 by Rebecca McArthur on 2011.04.15 - 6:16 am

      I suppose its for the same reasons millions of people are willing to pay to play WoW, when they could just play Warhammer Online (or whatever, feel free to substitute any name of a “free” game here). Cost – benefit analysis FTW!

  163. #334 by lionsheart on 2011.04.14 - 11:11 am

    i have added a small vid to youtube for ppl to use to post on forums its not a brill vid but its better than nothing
    here is the link


    • #335 by kudosRetalian on 2011.04.14 - 11:06 pm

      aren’t you that paintballer?

    • #336 by Machinegunner on 2011.04.15 - 12:08 am

      Aren’t you that paintballler?

    • #337 by David H on 2011.04.15 - 3:21 am

      Yeah, that is crap, but a good idea.

  164. #338 by watchlight on 2011.04.14 - 11:07 am

    I’m updating myself to this blog everyday, to see if there are any news about re-opening 🙂

  165. #339 by Lunarstar on 2011.04.14 - 10:56 am

    Hi Mr MW and a big hello to all fellow thereians ‘wave . I have finally sorted my pc out so I could do the survey ”yay ( couldn’t do it on hubbi’s laptop as he had already done it )
    Can’t wait to see you all again 🙂

  166. #340 by Roxannie on 2011.04.14 - 10:30 am

    o i just saw the update from the 12th, doh

  167. #341 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.14 - 10:28 am

    There are a few additional thoughts about the “trial or noob island”
    You CAN’T get off of noob island until you become premium.
    To get away from chaining or ban-avoidance, after the trial period is up, either ban permanently that avie name or moderate it for a month or 2.
    Both possibilities are already in code and should be easy to implement.
    Use the IP Addr of the former trial avie to keep that person from signing up immediately after his trial period. Don’t know if that would be difficult or not.
    Let the noobs paintball with the 5 shot trial guns. Maybe make a 10 or 25 shot trial gun .. you cant do much with 5 shots 🙂
    Same thing with the buggies and the rest of the moving stock. A short time trial period.
    Maybe give them 3 to 5 trial periods with each piece of equipment.
    Make a zone for paintball where the FF is optional. The rest of the island should have FF in effect all the time.
    Make tutor kiosks where people can read the basics of movement around the island. Possibly a Helper near that area to help those who don’t understand.
    Put out a couple of decorated Paz’s to show the noobs what they can do by becoming premium.
    Make sure all of them understand that unlike most other virtual worlds, on the Internet, Premium accounts have VOICE rather than having to type.
    Unless something brilliant comes to mind, this is my last comment on Noob Island 🙂

  168. #342 by Roxannie on 2011.04.14 - 10:25 am

    i hope you get the numbers you need, i myself have been passing the survey link to everyone i can think of, and i am ready for a new update too on the survey, last one was on sunday as far as i can tell, i am on pins and needles waiting for more results and to hear more 🙂 and i am so happy about the 18+ but i am wondering if it is gonna be like the 13+ where parents can fax in permission for their kid to be in? hoping not

    i have tried all the virtual worlds i think and there is nothing that compares to and wondering if you will be using national tv to do any advertising since the dr. phil show pulled in so many people maybe a commercial would do the same, just thinking out loud (i joined the day after i saw it on dr. phil and never left till it shut down for good, standing on top on a freshly dug grave dancing)

    was just wondering if you have thought about taking away the trade box and only allowing things to be listed in auctions so the company gets a cut, or maybe adding something to the trade box so a percentage goes directly to the company, i’m all for ya makin money cause it means it will stay open longer, i always felt like the yard sales and trades must be taking money away from the company somehow, one last thing, also hoping you have a choice of gifting or buying your own tbucks, like a button that you can click and fill in the name of who you would like to give them too, cause i am pretty sure it will be set up so you can give them any more to help cut down on outside sales of them, which i totally agree with, i felt like that was one of the big down falls of

    • #343 by there_forever on 2011.04.14 - 11:22 am

      Totally agree with ya Roxannie! What you say aint so good for us users but if we want to keep There open we need to make a few sacrifices ourselves. We cant have everything and the old There gave too much and didn’t ask for much back!

  169. #344 by kevinf on 2011.04.14 - 9:22 am

    This marks the end of onverse lolol

    • #345 by Jack on 2011.04.14 - 10:07 am

      Onverse is a close community. It has great services for help, fair prices, two currencies, tons of customization, and everything else. I don’t see it going anywhere but improving, for a long time.

      • #346 by Roxannie on 2011.04.14 - 11:24 am

        yes it’s good for all the kids that can’t come back to there, last time i was in onverse was the last time i am going i think, since i watched kids grief me and another adult callin us old people and standing on our heads, then when the guide or whatever they are in there comes along and warns me and the adult because we are tryin to get the kids to stop, childs play i say, besides that i can’t stand the way the chat is set up and the games i feel are more child oriented than there.coms games are, it may go on but it is more of a hobby for the developers than it is a full time job like was

    • #347 by mimi06 on 2011.04.14 - 1:47 pm

      If anything (IF) THERE reopens, ONVERSE will thrive, as it is a PG13 world and therefore being under 18, you might just like it. As well as many that post here, under 18. 🙂

      • #348 by Summer on 2011.04.15 - 8:08 pm

        Onverse is not a fun game…

  170. #349 by Brandyn_1 on 2011.04.14 - 7:37 am

    Will There IM return with If you reopen? Is there any ideas for putting it on the iPad, iPhone, or iPod Touch? To be honest I think that would be a good addition. You could make it an additional price on your monthly fee for having There IM maybe like an extra $5? I know it would be a BIG project and might cost more money.. but is something your considering? 🙂

    • #350 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.14 - 9:42 am

      Yes, ThereIM will return, and it, too, will be for member 18 and up.

      • #351 by SpeedRacer2 on 2011.04.14 - 9:48 am

        So Michael when do you appose the opening of or there IM??

      • #352 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.14 - 11:02 am


      • #353 by SpeedRacer2 on 2011.04.14 - 11:19 am

        In other words when do you think you will be opening There IM or

    • #354 by Mr_donenzone on 2011.04.14 - 11:56 am

      Hey michael, if you don’t mind answering, if the game re opens, will our lots still be there?

    • #355 by Brandyn_1 on 2011.04.14 - 2:04 pm

      Great to know MW. 🙂

  171. #356 by Rebecca McArthur on 2011.04.14 - 6:01 am

    Is there any chance that you or someone representing you, would be at PAX Prime in August? I think you’d be an excellent panel contributor and it is a great way to reach a very large segment of the gaming community.

  172. #357 by n3rd_status on 2011.04.14 - 5:07 am

    I have become so excited about all of this that at work the last few days all ive done is read through these comments, watched there youtube videos and gone through thumdars forums!!!!!

    I really like the free trial idea for newer members, I think if you were to make the trial period shorter than what everyone is recommending, say 2-4 hours they would be more appt to buying a membership, if i sign up for a game to try it out, i’ll most likely want to play it all day and once my trial runs out I would certainly pay 10$ to keep going, and the youtube suggestion is a great idea, using the right keywords would get videos popping up everywhere, even if makena it self wouldn’t do it I’m sure a few members could pull together to make something really great happen!

  173. #358 by Mr_Donenzone on 2011.04.14 - 5:00 am

    Hey MW, I have a quick question. If the game opens, will we still have our lots? Also I have a suggestion. The game smallworlds charges monthly for a vip membership. It usually costs 7.95 or 8 dollars a month. However, in order to make MORE money, they offer items and special promotions when you spend an extra 20 dollars or so on a membership. So you could consider offering: A (re)founding member package which includes 6 months of membership, and charge an extra 20 dollars which includes a special shirt or special items. Also, you could offer packages when buying therebucks. If you buy 12,000 therebucks, for example, then for an extra 10 dollars, you get a there buggy or something like that. Please tell me your feedback. Im a veteran therian with hundreds or more invested in your game.

    Ps. Also, if we don’t remember our passwords, will there be a recovery service for old accounts?

  174. #359 by cindy83 on 2011.04.14 - 1:57 am

    ^_^ i always wanted to say hi mw 🙂 i always have hope and faith ( FTW) returns i will hug everyone hehe (hugs)

    • #360 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.14 - 7:20 am

      hey cindy still remember me? rick?

      • #361 by cindy83 on 2011.04.14 - 9:12 pm

        rick98 or something like that lol

  175. #362 by John__M on 2011.04.13 - 10:57 pm

    Hi Michael,

    You have no idea how happy the thought of re-opening makes me. Since there closed, i have spent time in other virtual worlds, nothing .. but nothing compares to There.

    I have no problem paying whatever per month to have our lovely world back.

  176. #363 by Ciara on 2011.04.13 - 5:33 pm

    ill pay you 200$ to unban my account 😦

  177. #364 by SaltySilver on 2011.04.13 - 4:41 pm

    Noob Island “welcome walkway” would be something to think about. But having a YouTube Ch for with a veriety of clips or ads of life in would work as well. It could be linked from the home page. If you think about it $10 is less then a movie and popcorn. I believe that ppl would pay to try it out after seeing all the fun that can be had in

    • #365 by Joeydantonio on 2011.04.13 - 5:08 pm

      I agree, using youtube for advertisements is a great idea. People sell stuff through youtube videos a lot more than you would think.

    • #366 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.14 - 4:43 am

      Noob Walkway sounds good esp if we can paintball them … in a welcoming fashion of course!

  178. #367 by Syntech on 2011.04.13 - 3:46 pm

    Also another question since suppose ably you are still a running company what kinda things have you been doing besides Virtual congress after closed

    • #368 by Brandyn_1 on 2011.04.14 - 4:43 am

      Just saying we’ve all been asking that for a year ‘rofl .. He will not comment on them mainly because its private.. between Makena Tech. and others.. but Who knows? 😀

  179. #369 by Richard on 2011.04.13 - 3:35 pm

    Hello MW I sent you a email to the and was wondering if you got it or not. It was about the the There IM like what the costs of buying it would be.

  180. #370 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.13 - 3:25 pm

    Someone on Thumdar’s forums brought up an idea that everyone seemed to like.
    How about setting up a “noob” or “Trial” island where people could not leave but could try out There for a brief period of time (maybe a couple of days or a week) before paying up and becoming Premium. It probably should be a one time deal based on their IP addr.
    No Premium members allowed, to keep down the griefing. 🙂
    No voice.
    Perhaps trial:
    PB Guns
    etc, etc.
    Not sure if it has been suggested, if it has, sorry to repeat something.

    • #371 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.13 - 3:28 pm

      You know, if we made “Carbonite Valley” into “Carbonite Island” and used it for Noob Island, then think of all the new people you’d meet. Well “meet” is a strong word, how about “see”.

      We’ll keep all the “Free Account”/”Trial Account” ideas in mind, but only if we make it for a limited time, and have ways to prevent chaining and Ban-avoidance. Those are pretty tall orders right there.

      • #372 by Syntech on 2011.04.13 - 3:42 pm

        Yes that would be a smart idea. But here is a way to keep the customer support costs “Free” Ask for volunteers within the community like the IG program did. Onverse does that and I think its quite interesting on how many ppl you would get. Also if someone were to wanna buy an island they could pay $1000 upfront then $350 a month (just a few ideas)

      • #373 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.14 - 4:09 am

        Swear to God… I’m thinking about doing a “walk-a-thon” from NM to San Mateo or Laguna Beach (Makena HQ) to get attention to THERE reopening. MW you want dedicated members? I may to it clad in a bikini.

      • #374 by Brandyn_1 on 2011.04.14 - 7:51 am

        I think having a trail account would be a good idea.. At least to get new members than you already do.. The thing I would suggest is letting Premium Members go on the island and maybe let them hear voide but they cant speak it.and I suggest having a funzone for separate things like Paintball and Racing for buggys hoverbikes ect. and maybe have IG’s on the islands to help swing them in to the world. And maybe explain almost EVERYTHING about the game, like its one of a kinda, its a whole world, friendly, exploring jungles, meeting friends, owning a home, a neighborhood, events ect. and TONS of videos of the game. maybe have the videos even in world. and out. Again you know what is financially smart for the company so do what you think will make the Company make more money in the long run.

      • #375 by Cerenela on 2011.04.14 - 4:47 pm

        Actually, used to have a place for new members the Welcome Walkway. There you had Try-it machines, dogs to play, card tables, a place to dance, customization machines, etc. And you had Greeters and IG available to help and answer questions. And it was open only for new members.

      • #376 by Winston on 2011.04.21 - 11:53 am

        “I may to it clad in a bikini.”

        JoyofLife I will pay your first six months of membership if you do that 🙂

    • #377 by Syntech on 2011.04.13 - 3:32 pm

      Im not MW but maybe I can help. The way i have seen questions about the hoods, Funzones and everything was about a cloud server which somebody would have to pay for.

  181. #378 by Antaios on 2011.04.13 - 2:16 pm

    checks the date, for when survey went up… April 1st hmmmmmm

    • #379 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.13 - 2:18 pm

      I assure you I haven’t spent the last what, 5 days?, approving almost 1000 comments as a joke.

      • #380 by Austin B on 2011.04.13 - 2:24 pm

        Speaking of which, is it possible for you to create a whole new blog post and a new comments section. Loading these comments take a little while…

      • #381 by JamTuner on 2011.04.13 - 3:21 pm

        In a slight reference back to my earlier post : If it were me, and I had to read ( or more accurately : “endure” ) many of the more pointed personal attacks that have been posted here and historically in many forms all over the internet, I would have been more likely to react with a statement more along the lines of ” Okay, If , negativity and attacks bordering ( and many times entering into ) slander, are your overall response to the possibilities we have set forth, then maybe its time to have shut of the whole idea. We will turn over the archives of to the historians, and go on with our lives and ventures “. Which statement could easily be exhorted in only two words, by the more vulgar among us.

        Again have to say, I have learned to respect the level of tolerance you are proving to have , Michael.

        If there is nothing more apparent , it is the commitment you have shown to the enterprise we know as

        After the closing, from your earliest commentary and what I saw as a sort of “inner dialogue” when speaking of the continued interest and limited ongoing development of the concept of , I could see that if there came to be a way to bring the World to old and new members, you would make every effort to do so.

        I wince when I read many of the venomous remarks and can only sigh when reading the quickly typed comments, that can be just as quickly seen as imbued with little forethought or insight.

      • #382 by Hugh5 on 2011.04.13 - 7:00 pm

        I’m impressed. Really. I had a less than high opinion of how you and Makena closed I understood why it was done (economics), but I disapproved of the short notice and the total lack of options for the members. It was handled in a way I expected of Makena–virutally no notice and with a “thats all folks” commentary.

        Suggesting the ‘pay by the month’ strategy is fine. I voted YES. The thing is though, I suggested that same thing all during the seven years of There’s existance. I have a valid question: instead of heading right into the full-blown 2010 shut-down, did you not try to implement a ‘pay by the month plan’ earlier? Say, perhaps in 2008 or 2009, possibly avoiding the 2010 shutdown?

        However, this blog has changed my opinion of you and Makena. As I said earlier, if you do this type of communications when you re-open, the ‘new’ There will be even bigger and better than before. However, if the Makena staff goes into hiding like it did before, then the ‘second life’ (bad pun) of There2 will be short-lived.

        One last point–if you really want to know if a couple million former members of want to re-join, you have to put this survey out in such a manner that actually reaches those former members–yes? no? A blog like this isn’t going to give you very accurate feedback is it? Why not tap into your database and do a Constant Contact survey that reaches all former members? I’m puzzled by this low-key, or shall I say, low-rent, approach. I own a communications company, and I know how to reach target demographics—this isn’t it, unless you know something I don’t? This feels more like a ‘toe in the water’ approach than a serious research tool.

      • #383 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.13 - 7:16 pm

        Well, to be quite honest, here’s why:

        1. As I said, the home page gets hardly any traffic, so we haven’t rushed to put it There.
        2. This blog has had a nice network affect, because the most dedicated members tended to visit it.
        3. As I said before, I’m very gun shy of spamming former members, both because I detest spam, but also due to the huge number of bad addresses in the database. That all being said, I’m thinking of changing our view on that.
        4. Finally, I wanted to self select the folks who were most likely to pay and stick with it. There’s little sense in doing great the first month, and then having all the lookie-loos leave, and be running off false expectations.

        Also, I would like to remind everyone that There used to be a pay service and it still lost money. So we’re hoping that even though we’ll have less members (because it’s pay) the cost savings will offset that. Cost savings we hadn’t been able to realize in 2008 or 2009.

  182. #384 by Syntech on 2011.04.13 - 2:14 pm

    There is a few ppl here in comments i noticed show some hatred. Well MW i just wanted to stay don’t feel bad I mean your taking time outta your day to just about answer all of our questions. So I completely believe you and technically you said that will not close down at this time. People think you said ” will never close down” which you didn’t. I just had to say something. Because you’ve been soooo awesome to answer our comments and questions and everything. lol

    • #385 by Wendy Stoll on 2011.04.13 - 2:58 pm

      ‘tu syntech!

  183. #386 by Cory on 2011.04.13 - 1:39 pm

    Hey MW alot of people are confused about this , and I now you already said who wouldn’t be welcome. But are you saying some banned members will be unbanned , or are all the people who were banned, staying banned?

    • #387 by Jordan Charters on 2011.04.14 - 12:13 am

      People banned with stay banned. Simple sentence to understand surely?

      MW felt strongly about those that were banned and they will continue to be. If you need to find answers to questions in these comments just Ctrl + F to find and type in keywords, try not to repeat already asked questions.

  184. #388 by DaRock on 2011.04.13 - 1:32 pm

    Hey everyone,

    Just giving out a shout to all my There buddies!

    I’m not familiar with “beta accounts” When was the beta period (like was it 2001? 02???) I got my account in July 7, 2006. Would I still be able to get all my stuff back. And what is the oldest account you guys will reset (IF IT OPENS, not saying it will) do you go by last activity on account or how old the account is? or some other way?

    Thanks for your response,


    • #389 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.13 - 1:47 pm

      no i believe they still have every account made since 2003

  185. #390 by DaRock on 2011.04.13 - 1:26 pm

    Hey everyone,

    This is very exciting! I hope There2 opens. Just wanted to give out a shout to all my There buddies!

  186. #391 by watchlight on 2011.04.13 - 11:55 am

    I want Dune Valley back! 😀

  187. #392 by Carlos mmm on 2011.04.13 - 11:47 am

    yes! to mass mailing 😀 i will get more ppl to know about this survey and maybe now ill figure out wich email i had on my acc 😀

  188. #393 by Syntech on 2011.04.13 - 10:53 am

    Hey MW,

    This may be my last few questions. If you do decide to reopen will we be able to retrieve our old accounts? You say server costs and some other costs aren’t a problem any more. Did you make changes and if so could you explain the changes made?

    Thank you,

    • #394 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.13 - 12:04 pm

      yes we will he already said so but youl only be able to use the one you pay for if you own more than one

    • #395 by Winston on 2011.04.13 - 12:23 pm

      He’s already addressed these questions. I know the comments are getting long so it’s easy to miss. Your old account will be used but they still need to look into combining multiple avies for one person. The server costs have been otherwise negated by moving to cloud computing rather than traditional, physical server hosting.

    • #396 by Jonathan on 2011.04.13 - 12:26 pm

      He’s answered this on many occasions up above. But yes, he has made server changes, he says he will use Rack-Space, or Amazon ‘cloud’ servers for There2. Thus, they are ‘scalable’ and therefore only use what they need to. And yes, old accounts do appear to be retrievable as he made back-ups.

    • #397 by jimony on 2011.04.13 - 1:01 pm

      Syntech, I know, it’s almost a 1000 posts, but the answers are in there.

  189. #398 by 1969Craven on 2011.04.13 - 10:22 am

    I think posting the survey on the actual web site will bring a lot more people in .. this would just solidify that this is not a prank or false survey. many people have been fooled into thinking that it was reopening so many times that they just don’t believe you when you tell them.. I was one of those, because I found the survey on Wikipedia and not this site. I was then yelled at and given this link.. lol.. thanks lisablisa 😛 I have posted the link in many games and social networks. just trying to do my part to get my home back ‘tu

  190. #399 by Codrod on 2011.04.13 - 9:23 am

    Would you ever unban those who where banned?
    As for me, I wasn’t told the reason for my ban, not judging the company or anything, I think it was a mistake.
    Perhaps a fee?

    • #400 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.13 - 9:27 am

      he already stated who wont be welcome’d im sorry for the banned people i also was banned once for something i didnt do but got unbanned lil after after clarifiying the situtation

    • #401 by Bradley Cornwest on 2011.04.13 - 9:47 am

      Can you beat this dead horse anymore,

      5. All former There members would be welcome, EXCEPT those suspended for conduct inappropriate for a PG-13 site and those who have violated Makena Technologies policies, agreements or intellectual property rights.

      If you are not sure whether or not why your account was suspended or “banned” what’s to stop you from trying to sign in to your account when there re-opens. If your account is unaccessible at that point then go through the appeals process by filling out an appeals, good luck!

  191. #402 by SassyBeMe on 2011.04.13 - 9:06 am

    I find that odd. I still kept it as home page of my browsers. Well not chrome. I haven’t figured out if I can with that one. 🙂

    • #403 by Bradley Cornwest on 2011.04.13 - 9:41 am

      In your Chrome browser, left click on the wrench in the top right corner, select “Options”, center of page select “Open this page” and type in the home page that you’d like to use.

    • #404 by Joeydantonio on 2011.04.13 - 9:42 am

      * This is completely un-related to this blog at all. Lol * But anyway, to set a homepage in Chrome – You just click the wrench logo in the top right corner, go to Options. Then in the middle of the new page, you will see where you can set your home page. 😛

  192. #405 by Joeydantonio on 2011.04.13 - 8:47 am

    Hey, when are you guys going to add the survey to the homepage? I think that would really help out a lot for getting the word around.

    Speaking for myself, just yesterday I passed around the link and at least 5 regular’s never heard about the survey. I am sure there are tons more out there just waiting to be aware of the news to be able to vote.

    • #406 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.13 - 8:56 am

      We are working on it, but it hasn’t been a big priority because frankly, the home page doesn’t get a lot of traffic (I still run Google analytics on it).

      That being said, I’m still thinking about how to get to the non-US customers. I may have to break down and do a mass mailing.

      • #407 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.13 - 9:15 am

        do it sir that way itl also help me find the email for one of my accounts that ive forgotten

      • #408 by debbilyn on 2011.04.13 - 9:19 am

        I think a mass emilaing is a good idea.

      • #409 by there_forever on 2011.04.13 - 9:20 am

        I think thats a great idea! I wouldn’t call it spam anyway. Its more like a newsletter or something.
        I don’t think it should just be for the non-US members. I’m sure that a lot of US members still have no idea of whats going on.

      • #410 by Joeydantonio on 2011.04.13 - 9:33 am

        Yeah, I think that would be the best bet to send a mass mailing. Not only will you reach international users using the mailing method – you may also reach users who have disabilities that aren’t able to keep in touch with everyone as often as they would like, users who don’t follow the forums of other games and sites like thumdar, older members who have not been around for some time, etc….. I know as earlier stated in previous posts that you didn’t want to seem as though you were ‘mass-message spamming’, but in my opinion it’s not really spam because you aren’t offering to sell them anything as far as a product or service goes yet, you are simply informing them that they have the opportunity to take part in the open decision of the opening of a game they already agreed to the TOS of not too long ago.

        Also, I know a lot of families who all took part in memberships. Parents and late teenage children in the same household and married couples (that actually met through and now live together) and such. Some can’t vote due to living in the same house, that is another thing to take into consideration when counting the total amount of votes when that day comes.

      • #411 by luckyjunior2005 on 2011.04.13 - 10:25 am

        I agree with the mass mailing as well. It would be the fastest way to get the word out. I wouldn’t think of it as spam. If they want nothing to do with There, all the have to do is delete the message.

      • #412 by Skyefire on 2011.04.13 - 11:15 am

        I can’t see one mass mailing pissing anyone off. It’d only be going out to people that have already shown some interest in There at least. I know MY reaction to getting linked the survey. After I realized it was really, it was pretty much the extreme opposite of upset.

      • #413 by Antaios on 2011.04.13 - 11:59 am

        None US resident here… I had no trouble finding this place

      • #414 by Orielle on 2011.04.13 - 1:53 pm

        But Antaios, you’re Canadian and you don’t count now that Canada has finally became a part of North America. 😛 One of the betas we had signed up for is open to residents of North America and when Ant finally got his invite he put down he’s in Canada and was told Canada wasn’t part of North America. 😛 They eventually fixed it to where Canada is part of North America. lol

      • #415 by Wendy Stoll on 2011.04.13 - 2:55 pm

        Yes to the mass-mailing, and LOL Orielle and Ant!

      • #416 by Innie on 2011.04.13 - 4:15 pm

        Yes to the mass mailing! I would never consider that spam. More like a good news letter to most that will receive it.

        And, LOL Ant and Orielle. Sure have missed you guys 🙂

      • #417 by Captain_Quirk on 2011.04.13 - 7:44 pm

        I’m not a US customer, I’m Australian (in Australia) and I heard about the news about There might be reopening on Facebook. But I’m sure a mass emailing would be a great help in getting the word out 🙂 I’ve passed the news around, but I can do only so much. Btw… I too have checked out the There home page from time to time… living in hope for the good news.

      • #418 by Soede on 2011.04.13 - 8:52 pm

        If you DO do a mass mailing, could you please list the number of responses according to team colour? And may the Best Team WIN!!

      • #419 by Cerenela on 2011.04.14 - 4:28 pm

        Well, I live in Latin America and I knew about this survey the very first day that you posted it because a friend who lives in Europe told me about it. Also, a lot of friends that live in Latin America already know about the survey.

      • #420 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.14 - 5:57 pm

        If someone wants to provide translations of the announcement and questions we can try to get them in, if anyone thinks that’s a good idea.

      • #421 by Cerenela on 2011.04.15 - 4:14 am

        Sure! I can translate it. Just let me know where i can send translation to you.

  193. #422 by beth on 2011.04.13 - 8:12 am

    mw never once said he’d reopen he MIGHT open there2 that would have a few things the same as, but is NOT most of what made the place was the people and I know a lot of people no longer trust mw and won’t go to there2, so it will be even less like the most worrysome factor to me is the lack of intrest in the human emotion that mw seems to have. i have heard people have gone to therapy due to the closing of it was real human emotion behind a lot of avies. yes, mw is a buisnessman, but one would hope human compassion would be number one in dealing with an on-line world. I have yet to see that side of mw.

    • #423 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.13 - 9:14 am

      No. Its not “would have a few things the same as” it is and it probably wont even be called THERE2 its gonna be the same virtual world same everything , and it can change back with time as there makes more money and gets more popular

    • #424 by Cerenela on 2011.04.14 - 4:10 pm

      Beth, I think you are confused, as Rick stated it will be the same (maybe with the exception of the places like CC Metro that used to have sponsors) and it won’t be called There2. I can’t talk about other ppl but what I can see is that MW is interested in have There back.

  194. #425 by Hoverbiker on 2011.04.13 - 7:02 am

    Surely just as you wouldn’t discuss a sale price of on a blog, you aren’t going to base your decision on whether or not to proceed with There2 based soley on a survey linked to it.

    Is that survey a starting point for potential investors to view? Is it simply a starting point for you to view in order to decide whether or not attempt to obtain investors?

    That leads into my next question . . . should you decide to go ahead with There2, will there be a board of directors like there was for There?

    Seeing as though was ultimately a failure, as far as it being profitable, have you considered employing any professional busines people for this round? Perhaps just on a temporary basis to get the ball rolling? Maybe employ a CEO who would have to step down if/when his business plan wasn’t productive.

    • #426 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.13 - 7:42 am

      . Surely just as you wouldn’t discuss a sale price of on a blog, you aren’t going to base your decision on whether or not to proceed with There2 based soley on a survey linked to it.

      It’s a valuable form of input.

      . Is that survey a starting point for potential investors to view? Is it simply a starting point for you to view in order to decide whether or not attempt to obtain investors?


      . That leads into my next question . . . should you decide to go ahead with There2, will there be a board of directors like there was for There?

      Makena’s Board of Directors never went away and continues to exist.

      . Seeing as though was ultimately a failure, as far as it being profitable, have you considered employing any professional busines people for this round? Perhaps just on a temporary basis to get the ball rolling? Maybe employ a CEO who would have to step down if/when his business plan wasn’t productive.

      I don’t have the answer you want to that question, so I won’t even go there.

      • #427 by JamTuner on 2011.04.13 - 11:34 am

        “Seeing as though was ultimately a failure, as far as it being profitable, have you considered employing any professional busines ( sic) people for this round? Perhaps just on a temporary basis to get the ball rolling?

        I must stand up and applaud you for your admirable ( and considerable ) restraint when faced with comments like this one and many others I have seen made about core business implementation. It boggles the mind that there is a persistent attitude that was somehow an amateur theatrical production put on by the neighborhood kids for casual amusement.

      • #428 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.13 - 12:02 pm

        We wanted to get the neighborhood kids to run it, but they were busy building an orbital vehicle for the X-Prize.

      • #429 by Hoverbiker on 2011.04.13 - 1:11 pm

        “I don’t have the answer you want to that question, so I won’t even go there.”

        I’ll take that as a no.

        Pity the kids were busy, but that must be some neighborhood.

  195. #430 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.13 - 6:31 am

    Michael when we Re-register would we be able to pick a different name but still keep our inventory?

  196. #432 by Betty on 2011.04.13 - 6:13 am

    This honestly distresses me. I’d be happily willing to pay $10, $15 or even $20 a month. I’ve spent hundreds of dollars on this game already and I feel that this was a wasted investment. As I am only 16 and this game is going to be 18+, I will not be able to enjoy the game as I once did for years. I’d suggest this game be 16+ as a lot of those over this age would be willing to pay out and as you’d have to pay to even be able to log in, the people that would be less likely to pay the fee wouldn’t even want to reload their accounts.
    I miss this game, a lot. I made a lot of friends and created so many memories yet I’d not be able to go back to this if, theoretically, it did open due to my age. I hope that you can keep a hold of the accounts for at least 2 years because after that time I’ll be able to return! I just don’t want to have all of my hard work put to waste.

    • #433 by Jonathan on 2011.04.13 - 6:41 am

      I don’t think it’s as simple as saying “Yeah, why not, its now 16+”. I presume there are a lot of legalities with ‘minors’. People aged over 18 (why 18 is a massive milestone I don’t know) are considered to be Adult, and therefore liable from a legal standpoint. Unfortunately this is just ‘the way the cookie crumbles’.

  197. #434 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.13 - 6:08 am

    btw michael since there will be no Free accounts theres no need for Island Guides

    • #435 by Cerenela on 2011.04.14 - 3:55 pm

      Rick, IG program was not created for helping not paying members, it was created for helping NEW members and all community. And if reopens I hope to see not only the old members but also a lot of new members! And remember that a free account is not the same than a basic member.

  198. #436 by debbilyn on 2011.04.13 - 4:54 am

    Help us get the word out about the survey. I am posting and emailing as much as possible, but I do not think it is enough to get the word to all of the Therians out there. I want There to be successful for you and all of us “Therians” that want our virtual home back.

  199. #437 by Ravenmagic on 2011.04.13 - 4:41 am

    Mr, Wilson,
    I was ever so happy to take the survey. I wanted to thank you for the time I had on the game before it closed. Knighthawk101 and I had a blast on Hemp Beach and boarding off of Avie Sacrifice and all the wonderful times in the Hood we owned. Wonderful times! We met and married two years after we got on the game. lol I know it is to much info but hey there it is. We are looking forward to the time that you can get the VW up and running again, and if not, I still think you for a wonderful experience and for me finding my husband. As I made the comment on Facebook. With all your stress with everything going on don’t forget to step back and take long deep breath’s. We would love for you to come down and have a good ole southern dinner with us. Sometimes ya just got to relax. rofl… We will rock out this side of Va. We made so many new and wonderful friends on the game, they know who they are and they will provide lots of music. rofl..

    Just relax

    • #438 by Adrian Witt on 2011.04.13 - 7:51 am

      Mr. Wilson, what she said. Many thanks


  200. #439 by Adrian Witt on 2011.04.13 - 2:20 am

    MW, After Ravenmagic and I spoke about the possiblity of There2 opening it occured to us that we owe you a debt of thanks, if it had not been for we would never have met. We have been together for 2 years now and married for a few months . Thank-you, I sincerely hope “There” comes back.

  201. #440 by kudosRetalian on 2011.04.13 - 2:17 am

    I am sorry i am unaware of this but what’s the proof that you are the real michael wilson ?

    • #441 by Studly From There on 2011.04.13 - 4:47 am

      Seriously??? You have not read much of his blog have you?

    • #442 by JoyofLife on 2011.04.13 - 4:56 am

      Yikes kudo … just look at MW’s blog history…. who else who would have left such nerdy techie posts?? (er kidding MW ;0). Seriously do you think anyone would imposter MW for a year and “The Real MW” wouldn’t have done anything about it? Please don’;t drive the man crazy with batshit questions. And anyway maybe it was the Imposter MW that was running THERE all along? Insight MW? hehe

      • #443 by kudosRetalian on 2011.04.13 - 5:19 am

        Hey i was unaware now dont get mad at me i apologised for being ignorant in the first place.

  202. #444 by kudosRetalian on 2011.04.13 - 1:56 am

    How come SL runs with basic members and doesn’t?

  203. #445 by VoniLei on 2011.04.12 - 11:17 pm

    Mr. Wilson, the question that I’m sure is niggling at the back of every brain here is this…

    Will we have quest kits?


    • #446 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.13 - 4:25 am

      Yes, they’ll be used to program the cats.


      • #447 by There_forever on 2011.04.13 - 4:50 am

        Having cats would be a great idea though. Especially if you can get them to acutally interact with the dogs… like in real life
        Imagine a dog running after a cat or the opposite!!!

      • #448 by VoniLei on 2011.04.13 - 6:32 am

        Hahaha! Oh, thanks for the giggles. (And I don’t mean the annoying add-on that sends a million chickens, either) 😛

    • #449 by debbilyn on 2011.04.13 - 4:45 am

      Thanks for asking about quest kits. Questing is my favorite activity in Other worlds have tried questing but nothing compares to the challenge offered in there.

  204. #450 by tim on 2011.04.12 - 9:14 pm

    if you come back will i get my stuf back

    • #451 by jimony on 2011.04.12 - 9:29 pm

      No, only if you come back if There comes back does your stuff come back. That has been backed up by the back statements. Just scroll back to see.

  205. #452 by jimony on 2011.04.12 - 8:54 pm

    Even though I have been outspoken about thinking MW was deceptive in telling us “There won’t close next month and There won’t close in six months” or something very similar (it closed before six months were up, so he did tell the technical truth, it didn’t close six months from his statement!), my personal opinion of Michael Wilson was solidified the day There closed when he stood in the park (At Cosmo?) and gave people the opportunity to confront and bash him, while he passionately tried to make them understand why he had to close There. I sensed that he was in pain with his decision.
    I will always respect him for being there regardless of the profanity being slung at him.
    BUT YOU SHOULDN’T HAVE CLOSED THE FORUMS SO QUICK!!! Sorry, had to get that out.

    • #453 by MrScrooge on 2011.04.13 - 3:30 am

      I was there for that. I actually felt bad for him. He was like a bunny rabbit trying to cross a busy highway.

  206. #454 by Marifee on 2011.04.12 - 8:40 pm

    Yes yes yes yes PLEASE bring it back. My dogs will be starving lol. Oh to drive my vehicles again…my boards…the roaming freedom…yes yes yes….you get the idea? Lol

  207. #455 by padink on 2011.04.12 - 8:13 pm

    “Lets get this done Therians and go home to the best damn game on the Internet!!!!” -xSnoopy


  208. #456 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.12 - 7:27 pm

    Up until I started following this blog, I thought you were a smug, arrogant …. ahhh, you fill in the blanks
    As I followed your reactions to those who were positive and those who were not, a little of the REAL Michael Wilson started to show through.
    Its easy to stand on a soap box and preach. I guess most of us have become a little jaded after watching the circus that is Washington politics.
    The real eye opener, for me, was how you handled yourself when confronted by, so far, 850 comments both pro and con about There.
    I wonder how many hours you have put in here, moderating all 850 of these comments. DAMN, its a full time job and I’m sure there are a few other things going on in your life.
    Whether or not we/you get to that “It’s great, but it’s not 86% of the right number yet.”, my idea of who you are has changed.
    I swear I will never turn CAPS LOCK on, ever, again in There2. 🙂
    Lets get this done Therians and go home to the best damn game on the Internet!!!!

    • #457 by Hugh5 on 2011.04.12 - 9:44 pm

      Nice. I agree. I have one suggestion though Snoopy. When you turn off your caps lock, try to keep your FF off too when paintballing. I mean really…I tried to paintball with you in Zep many times, but all you did was shoot one shot, then turn on your FF. At least I think that was you. Let’s meet up in Lesser Tuma and go a few rounds eh? And no FF please. The beer’s on me.

      I have found some new respect for Michael too. I suggested to him that he keep up this new interest in communicating with us when There2 launches. The forums were not enough in my opinion. We need regular emails from Makena/There, a full fledged newsletter (started and owned by Makena), and maybe announcement signs INSIDE There updating us on events and regualr goings-on. The old There suffered from an unending feeling of neglect from its owners. My challenge to Michael–don’t let that happen again.

    • #458 by Woodstock on 2011.04.12 - 11:56 pm

      cya in zephyr bby

    • #459 by MrScrooge on 2011.04.13 - 3:28 am

      Psst Snoopy, don’t tell anyone but sometimes I like Michael (even though he ran me down in his Christmas buggy in ’09).

      • #460 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.13 - 4:26 am

        And count your blessings I couldn’t get it into reverse at that moment ;-).

      • #461 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.13 - 6:09 am

        Hiya Scrooge,
        Great to see your name again after so long. Considering what I read into Michaels more recent comments (they seem to be getting more and more positive as time goes by), were VERY close to being back in Zephyr and shooting the crap out of Phill41.. Cant wait to get him in my sights again LOLOL I so want to show him the way to Dune Valley Race Track one more time hehehe
        Why didn’t Michaels comment about not being able to find reverse surprise me, put him behind the wheel of a buggy and he gets plain NASTY 🙂

        Hugh5, I swear I will keep it off just for you.. after all, whats the worst that can happen? I have a long run back from the ocean 🙂 Sure wont be the first time nor the last LOL

    • #462 by Hoverbiker on 2011.04.13 - 5:08 am

      “Lets get this done Therians and go home to the best damn game on the Internet!!!!”

      There wasn’t a game.

      • #463 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.13 - 6:45 am

        Whats your point?
        We are trying to convince Michael to open the doors again, not debate whats in a name.
        What ever you call it, it was and is the best EVER!

      • #464 by Truck on 2011.04.13 - 7:07 am

        Amen, Lets go home. i want to fall from 21k meters and hit the ground on my hoverboard. jump off and drive away in my buggy.

  209. #465 by mandy on 2011.04.12 - 7:23 pm

    hiif it was to reopen would i be able to have all items i had on my island returned just wondered as they costs thousands but not so much the cost as being able to replace them which im sure would be im possable,thanks astonx

  210. #466 by Carlos on 2011.04.12 - 7:03 pm

    would be great if theres hopefully it will again be reopened my support for you ..

  211. #467 by Jordan on 2011.04.12 - 5:27 pm

    Hello Micheal (If there would to reopen) have you thought about hiring just one greeter maybe, to handle the island guides that way you don’t have to pay a bunch of staff you will have volunteers helping to great the members and welcome them to the world etc… The island guides were a really big help to the game to answer peoples questions and help them on their first moments in the world.

    • #468 by NathanAvis on 2011.04.12 - 5:59 pm

      Hmm dunno Jord if that will really be of much good in MW’s new There. There won’t be lost children, or people blindly making free accounts and not knowing what to do with them like before. It would be almost free to instead have elected people be volunteer experts and contribute towards a knowledge base Wiki, and point everyone to the Wiki if they get stuck or just help them out of your own free will. You don’t need to be a guide to help anybody.

  212. #469 by Evelyn on 2011.04.12 - 4:43 pm

    Michael Wilson, You see how many people who support you and I will behind your side for any helper in the future. I keep my figure cross.

    • #470 by jimony on 2011.04.12 - 8:42 pm

      If your behind someones side, aren’t your in their blindside and can we tell if someone has a good figure if it is crossed?
      (I agree with your sentiment, Evelyn, but I couldn’t help but tease your grammar. Hope you don’t hate me for it.) 😉

    • #471 by living without There. on 2011.04.13 - 1:24 am

      You talking about 2 different worlds phil, COD ops is a shooter game that kills people with a youthfull group of under 18,Far as we know Zuck might have been a member a there at one time,lol. Your so dead set on There2 opening but i do recall you enjoying yourself on many nights of buggy racing..There has so many options such as creating an island with a war zone,maybe MW could set this up with and target the adult 1st person shooter games. if there were to open I would see Phil in his buggy again,lol.

  213. #472 by living without There. on 2011.04.12 - 4:18 pm

    Heres another thought,get the founder of Facebook Zuckerberg involved,have him support the best virtual world with facebook icons throughout There,this could work for both parties,hes worth 60 billion and always looking to make more money I’m sure, we could have a facebook zone for his advertisement..Yeah???

    • #473 by Fearless_Phil on 2011.04.12 - 7:20 pm

      Call of Duty: Black Ops sold over the $1 billion mark (yes that’s a “B”) in 42 days with users logging in over 600 million hours in a few months. That’s probably a user base of 20+ million users.

      You think Zuckerberg is going to target a site/game with maybe 1000 users based on the current survey, when he can partner with dozens of other places with millions of users?

      Based on the current survey numbers MW would be better off selling There on eBay, and opening a Dunkin’ Donuts. 🙂

      • #474 by Hugh5 on 2011.04.12 - 9:52 pm

        MMO worlds are not FPS games. A direct comparison doesn’t hold up too well. There isn’t a game per-se. But you are right in that There will need a solid revenue stream. I think Makena can do it. Let’s help them do it instead of trying to shoot it down. We love There, and we all know people who have never been in-world. Invite your friends. I recruited my friends and family all the time in the past. Let’s all do that now. Tell everyone you know about this page. Start the movement NOW.

  214. #475 by Woodstock on 2011.04.12 - 3:58 pm

    It’s so exciting that 86% of people are willing to pay. At this stage do you think there a positive signs of a re-open Michael Wilson?

    • #476 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.12 - 4:14 pm

      It’s great, but it’s not 86% of the right number yet.

      • #477 by Woodstock on 2011.04.12 - 6:24 pm

        And would you mind telling us exactly what that number might be?

      • #478 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.12 - 7:33 pm

        Sorry, but we don’t know it yet. Please see my response below about all the factors involved.

      • #479 by xcal Urradio on 2011.04.12 - 7:13 pm

        Hey Michael,
        Please keep in mind this is only a fraction of the people who would love to see THERE open. Also keep in mind you have a lot of over seas people that loved there also that might be missing the option of the survey.

        Thanks Xcal

  215. #480 by Koala07 on 2011.04.12 - 3:46 pm

    Hi Michael Wilson Thank You, for even looking at bringing back. my real world wife Deleight and I were both IG and loved every moment that we where playing the game. We would gladly come back if there reopens and pay a monthly membership for each account. and yes we have done the survey.

    Thank you for all the hard work you have done and all that is still ahead to reopen


  216. #481 by Syntech on 2011.04.12 - 3:24 pm

    we could really use back because everything else sucks! Onverse ppls are real jerks they are creating new rules left and right that we don’t know about. I hope you will come back because you got my word i will be there as long as i get my account lol of course.

    • #482 by Dolphin on 2011.04.13 - 11:19 am

      Awww poor you syntech already forgot the TOU in Onverse and how you were on the Guide Team huh? And btw think you need to be reminded again that “IF” There opens back up again you won’t be ALLOWED in because you are UNDER THE AGE OF 18 :D.

      • #483 by mimi06 on 2011.04.14 - 2:41 am

        guess I missed this post. syntech your true colors shine brightly, to bad you just showed your age here! bash me or any guide wont get you to age 18….

    • #484 by Syntech on 2011.04.15 - 12:36 pm

      Well nooo duhhhh Dolphin besides i quick the guide team i was never kicked off it. Quite frankly. My dad played i can just watch him. I don’t care if I play or not my plan is not to spend another penny and you guys have no excuses to bring drama into this blog. Technically I can talk about onverse anywhere and they technically can’t stop me. Read the ToU yourself Dolphin maybe you will learn a thing or two.

  217. #485 by Coflin on 2011.04.12 - 3:12 pm

    I think the whole report that There would reset all usernames not logged into or paid for after six months could be problematic. I am all for doing something about the avie names, because there are so many that have been used as trial accounts (back before the free account system was implemented) or made as a free account and only logged into a handful of times. Many former semi prominent Thereians risk a identity theft of sorts when they may choose to not pay for their old account due to various reasons, and then perhaps a new member would assume that avie name which may cause confusion. IE, say “Thumdar” chose not to pay monthtly to play There because he is now on SecondLife and is very happy and content there (Remember this is a hypothetical). Six months go by, his name becomes up for grabs and another member takes it. I see this new member log in as “Thumdar”, I know Thumdar so I InstantMessage him asking his to hold onto some rare nikes for me for a day or two, knowing as a good friend he will give them back when requested. This new “Thumdar” in turn just keeps them because he isn’t really the person of the same name I thought, and I’m just SOL.

    To solve this issue I suggest only avie names with perhaps a Silver funpass or less names go back up for grabs, to prevent confusion such as this and allow for a member two years from now, if they decide to return, they can with their name, things, and identity still attached.

    • #486 by Thumdar on 2011.04.14 - 3:59 pm

      How did you know I’m totally happy and content in SecondLife?!?! ROFL. I log into SL about once every 6 months and usually last about 5 minutes before logging out and muttering, “friggin’ There closing – how dare they?!” Hehe. I know you were being hypothetical ~ couldn’t resist.

      • #487 by jimony on 2011.04.15 - 5:46 pm

        It’s actually a compliment, Thumdar was the most famous name he could think of.

  218. #488 by Austin B on 2011.04.12 - 2:39 pm

    Have you considered offering $150-$250 lifetime full premiums? This could immediately generate substantial revenue while There catches footing…

    Honestly, in my eyes, this isn’t a bad deal. Playstation, Wii, and Xbox all cost this much, plus 50$ per game, which a hardcore gamer can beat in a few days.

  219. #489 by OdileS AKA MmeOdile on 2011.04.12 - 1:33 pm

    Hi Mr Wilson,
    Both my husband (DenzelS) and I have played and enjoyed ‘There’ in the past…We are true Therians in every since of the word…We owned several hoods and pazes! Loved our friends and miss them dearly…
    My question would be: When Denzel took the survey he said he would pay for 6 months in advance..Although I did …I said ‘no’ to paying 6 months in advance…(should have asked hubby first LOL )..Well now I want to change my mind LOL …Hubby would fork the 6 months in advance, for each of us ….
    Question: How do you know the each person taking the survey is only taking it once? And …what if a person needs to change an answer..for example, Me 😉
    * way to go MW..hope you can make it happen, I want to fly my planes all around there, and ride our horses….I also want to sing again in ‘there’…. 😉

    • #490 by jimony on 2011.04.12 - 3:35 pm

      And I look forward to having you sing again at my place, OdileS! I hope you have been well.

      • #491 by OdileS AKA MmeOdile on 2011.04.18 - 1:00 pm

        Hey there Jimony…Yes, and maybe you might have a place for us to sing? Hint hint lol lol hugs and hope to see you THERE LOL

    • #492 by Flygirl_Dani on 2011.04.15 - 9:08 pm

      Mme!!!!! 😀 HUGS HUN!!! Miss u!!

      • #493 by OdileS AKA MmeOdile on 2011.04.18 - 12:59 pm

        Hey there Flygirl_Dani… are you? ….. and hope that there opens so we can party again !!!!!

  220. #494 by dakotaman on 2011.04.12 - 1:23 pm

    “I have a question. Why are the folks over at YowNow so hateful?”

    Personally, I think it comes from a couple of areas: First, YN is a business that is trying to fill the void left by the closing of There. They obviously (and rightly) see There2 as a direct threat to their very existence. Unfortunately, they have taken a dark road in reacting to the possible reopening of There. Sadly, I think it is the second reason that helps explain that. A quick look at the staffing of YN by longtime residents of There, will reveal that it is staffed by many of the premier designers of There. I don’t begin to understand what the closing of There did to these designers, I do know that they were at a level where there work was rewarded with both fame and $$. The sudden loss of that income may have contributed to the vehemence of their response to a possible reopening of There. What is lost in all of this, is the fact that for most of them, it was who gave them the opportunity and vehicle to become the highly regarded designers in virtual worlds that they are today. While most of them were ‘groundbreakers’ in There design, the growth in designing for There created many, equally talented artists. I do not fault them for being upset about the closing of There. We were all devastated in our own ways, even though the financial/income loss that they experienced added another level to their devastation. I am glad that they decided to recreate their success by joining together to try and approximate what There offered. It’s a testament to how good There really is. But I am saddened that their response to what should be a joyful turn of events is so hateful. If they were truly confident in their ability to do things better, then they would welcome There back as being good for all social worlds. Sadly, I am skeptical that they can ever pull off anything remotely like what There has done from the beginning. (Example: their exclusive in world video clip can be recreated by anyone with a picture and a cheap water/sky animation program for creating screensavers).

    Where YN and others have and will always fail is in trying to recreate There’s ‘avie-centric’ approach. While new graphics approaches can create ‘prettier’ avatars, There’s focus on creating seemingly living, breathing, reacting avatars is the key to their continued uniqueness in all mmo’s/social worlds. It is also the ‘secret’ to There’s uncanny ability to promote social interaction. I am overjoyed that MW has the original designer working on updating the avatars, but realize that they really ‘got it right’ the first time, with the most engaging, reactive avatars in ANY virtual world. It’s no wonder we all have an attachment to our avatars!

    MW and There’s creators should be proud of creating what history may yet call: The Seminal Social World. I hope There2 will be just the beginning of the future of Social-oriented worlds and will do anything I can to help make that dream a reality.


    • #495 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.12 - 1:34 pm

      Thanks for your comments. I guess one of the thing that saddens me most about the designers is that the T$ BuyBack program was aimed directly at helping them recoup at least some of their losses in real US $, in addition to of course refunding all monies spent the past 30 days. Since our expenses at that time still exceeded income, you can guess where the money to do that came from. I’m not sure I’ve every heard of a virtual world or game doing that before, or ever doing that again.

      Oh well. ‘shrug. Onward.

      • #496 by SassyBeMe on 2011.04.12 - 4:21 pm

        Not any world I had been a paid member of has ever reimbursed moneys spent on game. Not that a lot let you cash game moneys in for real. One closed 3 days after I paid a monthly membership fee. Never saw that money returned to my card. The buyback was quite unique. To your credit. Most appreciated.

      • #497 by Flygirl_Dani on 2011.04.15 - 9:05 pm

        Actually The sims online when it closed did reimburse anyone who had bought “simoleans” in the previous 30 days.. They had just initiated the buying of simoleans few months before they closed oddly. But I do have to say it was surprising that did buy back from designers and people who purchased Tbux.. I really wasn’t expecting that..

      • #498 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.15 - 9:06 pm

        That’s cool to hear EA did that.

    • #499 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.12 - 1:35 pm

      Hear, hear! Dakotaman… nice rational post. Can you think of anything we can do? I posted the link on about 40 Facebook “THERE” sites and to 20 THERE friends and asked Thumdar to post on his front page (which he kindly did). MW says he’ll put the link on the old THERE.COM. Any connections in SL? I know many folks migrated over and may want to learn of the survey. Best, Joy aka Marianne

      • #500 by padink on 2011.04.12 - 2:40 pm

        Good idea! yea I’ve been passing the word a long, and a lot of people i know, know of it already and have been doing the same thing. This is exciting. I have hopes. =)

      • #501 by Skyefire on 2011.04.12 - 4:09 pm

        I think most designers aren’t bitter AT There. Sad, angry, grieving still… it’s hard to watch your work vanish like that. It’s as though the uncountable hours spent on your art have been eaten by a void. I think most of us grieved and moved on. Yeah I get it was easier for me because I had been inactive for so long but it still hurts, I put a LOT of hours in There, and a handful in designing. It’s where I learned how to do any of that. But I am more appreciative of the experience than angry, and any upset I have over it is not at There or any staff. More at the world in general that it couldn’t last forever.

        The few people that are really really bitter about it, now matter what site they are on, are just a lot louder than the rest of us. Well, it makes more sense to complain about how unhappy you are then to complain about how happy you were with what you had. So, for every designer complaining and upset, there’s a bunch more out there that are not upset, at least not directly at There.

  221. #502 by DavyRocket on 2011.04.12 - 12:58 pm

    rofl I just found out I was banned from yownow forums for “no reason given” oh maybe it was because I said in here they are G rated and laughed at that. ‘shrug

    • #503 by Pink on 2011.04.12 - 2:26 pm

      I just went and checked out the goings on in yowishiwasliketherenow forums and my goodness. They banned everyone that said anything good about There! I only went there to see for myself how the community is and .. wow… I do not like this Henry Whatsit. They’re not very nice at all.

    • #504 by Codrod on 2011.04.12 - 2:55 pm

      I am going to post ‘there is good’ lets see if i get banned,

    • #505 by PeeBeeCee on 2011.04.13 - 2:24 am

      #238 by DavyRocket on 2011.04.08 – 4:37 pm

      I’m talking about the over all look, an NO way about me talking about that G rated place lol. I was asked to check that place out, I did, I was not impressed, so I left. Sorry didnt mean the new There lol There2 is what i meant my bad.

      Ring any bells, Davey? While they are glad Mr Wilson is trying to gauge interest in, and possibly bring back, a very popular venue (I miss it also), YOW Now will not tolerate any bashing on outside forums. In your case, you stated you were not impressed, and left. All they did was to clear your name from the ranks of a place you left.

      Hope that clears it up for you.

      • #506 by jimony on 2011.04.13 - 10:13 am

        PeeBeeCee: “While they are glad Mr Wilson is trying to gauge interest in, and possibly bring back, a very popular venue (I miss it also), YOW Now will not tolerate any bashing on outside forums.”
        I think it is a little late to try to spread this propaganda. If you read what Reid posted as “Henry Galt” (He claims to be transparent so why doesn’t he post as himself like MW does?) he is far from happy about the possibility that There might come back and I think he came to the realization that many of his followers were simply saying what he wanted to hear to get in on the beginning of what he promised would be bigger and better than There because all they wanted was There back.

  222. #507 by RunningHawk on 2011.04.12 - 12:25 pm

    I went read the stuff sounds like being jealous to me lol

  223. #508 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.12 - 12:06 pm

    I have a question. Why are the folks over at YowNow so hateful? I just read a tirade by the founder against you MW, and it is really full of venom. My goodness, is this what virtual worlds are about? Ppl can hide behind a virtual “photo” and then have the guts to smear another person? This Henry is the only person on their staff that does not have a photo of himself. What’s the big secret? I’m shocked… And am I missing something with YowNow… I don’t see even a new rendering of the world, surely some graphics would be available if they are working on it for so long? And so many Thereians are in the YowNow forums also full of spite. Even some of my old buddies. How can anyone deny that THERE was a terrific product and how can anyone believe that if it had been profitable that you wouldn’t have kept it open? I mean do they really think that you had evil intentions in closing it? I just don’t get it.

  224. #510 by jaybee on 2011.04.12 - 12:05 pm

    Let’s worry more about IF MW can open there again, than the little details. NO under 18. NO pay, no play. The end 🙂 Read the above post’s people. He’s answered the questions 1000x. Spread the word….get on all of your messengers and facebooks and cell phones and let everyone you know from there, and who may be interested that it might open but we all need them to take the survey 🙂

  225. #511 by Jack on 2011.04.12 - 12:02 pm

    Thanks for the info! Hope to see everything work well as planned. 😀
    One question:
    Will There2, for sure, be 18+ only? There are plenty of people in the younger audience willing to pay to play.

  226. #512 by Xcal Urradio on 2011.04.12 - 11:25 am

    I have been keeping up with the posts and some I just shake my head at …….First I would like to introduce myself… My Name is Xcal I used to run a radio station called most tuned in though pogo and yahoo games …In the spring of 2008 we decided to enter the 3D worlds.
    Flygirl_Dani (wife) joined in the summer of 2004 so she asked me to check it out, So we decided to venture off onto this Endeavour the spring of 2008 but not before looking at SL,Kaneva and V-side.
    We decided THERE would be the best fit. Our plan was to open a little club and invite people to hang out and tune us in. Something else Happen along the way ….I have had the pleasure of meeting the most talented people I have ever known and the most warmest. THERE.COM became more then just a business adventure it became a life style. Though we had rules in being a legal station on the Internet that lead us into some unpleasant situation with former staff. I respected everyone My father told me once never burn a bridge you never know who might be walking over it.
    Okkkk lol Now that you know who I am i would like to offer my view on…………… First of all I respect Michael Wilson for the effort he put in to keep THERE open,
    I respect this even after THERE.COM closed. Why you ask? He always had you and I in his mind and he understood the fine line between running a business and understanding your feelings.
    Mr. Wilson understood how people from the Arm forces,3rd world country’s and most of all people with disability’s used the platform of THERE.COM to communicate with loved ones and how a person who could not walk in real life ….could now run,walk and fly.
    I happen to be honoured to know a few of theses people.
    When shut it’s Doors I was left with a huge hole to fill and could not help to think of the people who might be feeling the same way…… We all invested so much in in ways of Friendship,fun and business.
    After a year and some change Michael has found a way to Run more economically efficient.
    BUT before he could do this and go down that road again he needed to research what he would be looking at to accomplish this huge task.
    For a Guy to run with no profit for so many years leads me to believe he loved it as much or even more then we did.
    I encourage the people who felt the need to post negative comments on this Blog to really look at what your saying and read everything Michael Wilson has and continues to Post. He has been Honest and upfront …He cares enough to respond to even the most hateful posts.
    Please come join me in taking this survey lets put our feelings to the side and be honest Do we want THERE.COM back? “I DO”
    Big Mike I support you and I would pay to enter the world you cared enough to offer back.

    Again I thank you

  227. #513 by 1969Craven on 2011.04.12 - 10:29 am

    Wow, looks like a lot of people are stuck on petty little details.. I think the question is do we want back .. do you remember your life with it? do you remember how long you looked for a new world to fit in. and how much they all suck! I think MW put up a question if came back would you be willing to pay? I for one am willing to pay to have my there life back.. how about you all?

  228. #514 by Wav3Ryder on 2011.04.12 - 10:10 am

    Michael, sorry if this question has already been answered, but with third party sellers gone, will there be something like it? Especially for big developers who wish to make some amount of real money with their large amounts of therebucks? Perhaps There could take a percentage off each exchange so they can profit as well?

  229. #515 by Jasmine on 2011.04.12 - 10:06 am

    To be honest, I REALLY wish you’d make it 16+ because I am 17 and I LOVE There. I cried for a while back in March when it closed.

  230. #516 by Pluto on 2011.04.12 - 9:51 am

    I’d actually try there because I’ve heard so much about it in the past… I know many friends I’ve met on Onverse who came from there. I don’t really know if I’d stick with there, but I’d definitely try it.

    In addition, I wouldn’t spend money on it unless I knew I wanted to continue playing it. Maybe a one month free trial? That’s the only way I might purchase a subscription.

    • #517 by alexpja on 2011.04.12 - 12:11 pm

      Pluto o_O

    • #518 by Syntech on 2011.04.12 - 3:32 pm

      Alex Pluto!

  231. #519 by Praetorian on 2011.04.12 - 9:26 am

    watchlight:(Please forgive me. But I think people are a little too stingy about their money.
    I see that 14.3 % don’t wanna spend a coin on
    I remember toward the end of Theres run, there were quite a few members way under the age of 18. And thus, likely had and still have no source of income. I think that this may be a lot of the source of the 14.3% that are unwilling to pay a fee. Coupled with the members who only knew There from the one time life membership. Taking this into consideration, this seems a rather low percentage. Having said that, I do agree. There is well worth a membership fee. And well worth one that is relatively more than the average, I always felt that There was better than any other interactive chat site to date.
    I would like to thank Michael Wilson for all his hard work and for keeping There open as long as he did. I would also have him know that I met the person I am married to now on There, and so did many others. So if There is reopened or not Michael, you definately made our world a much smaller, better place for alot of people than it was. And from the bottom of our hearts, we thank you.

  232. #520 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.12 - 9:00 am

    Yikes. Current survey results show approx $186,600.00/yr income to Makena off THERE subscriptions. True there might be more from tbux purchases, but they can’t count on that.

    Real world that’s like 2-3 employees with benefits. Likely not enuf to re-launch THERE folks.

    Guys, find your THERE buddies. Get them to see the light that $20/month is the price of ONE GOOD MEAL a month! Would give up a burger for a month of THERE play?

    Find them and get them to answer the survey. So far only @1500 ppl have responded.

    Perhaps MW should post on the THERE and Makena site? When googling only info abt THERE closing pops up. Fairly to MW/Makena this limited circulation won’t give a realistic sampling.

    • #521 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.12 - 10:34 am

      Well we’ll be putting a link on the There home page, but frankly according to my logs, we’re getting amazing coverage thanks to all of you, Thumdar, Facebook, Real Life Plus, YowNow, and even DxDesigns (as of today). Keep it up!

      P.S. It looks like folks on Onverse have been attempting to start threads, but they’re getting deleted. Hopefully they’re not also getting banned like what is happening at YowNow. I really appreciate folks like RLP being cool about this, and I think their customers will notice that and it will benefit them going forward.

      • #522 by KevinF on 2011.04.12 - 10:39 am


      • #523 by Skyefire on 2011.04.12 - 11:37 am

        Thanks. I know RLP appreciates the appreciation. We’re all trying to be friendly and positive and realize that there is too much user crossover between the communities to pretend people aren’t involved in more than one subset(or world) at a time.

      • #524 by alexpja on 2011.04.12 - 12:10 pm

        Onverse FTW.

      • #525 by Defector on 2011.04.12 - 1:18 pm

        Yes, Onverse has a TOU saying we cannot promote another website. Onverse is still an amazing virtual world though.

      • #526 by Orielle on 2011.04.12 - 1:59 pm

        No idea how true it is but have heard some have been banned from Onverse for talking about There over there which is why some found my screenshot of a thread in Onverse’s forums back in July 2009 rather amusing.

        In a way I don’t blame Onverse. I was there following their forums when vSide announced it was closing back in 2009 and saw all those posts from vSide refugees demanding this and that, essentially wanting Onverse to turn in to another vSide. I imagine they experienced deja vu when There closed, all those Thereians signing up, comparing Onverse to There and
        making suggestions to try to turn it in to the next There, though they did eventually add paintball and I think they are still working on vehicles…

        But still one of the things I liked about There was that we were free to openly discuss other places without fear of moderation or being banned and that we also didn’t have to worry about our private conversations being monitored or staff being invisible and spying on us…

      • #527 by Onverser on 2011.04.16 - 10:18 am

        Michael Wilson, I am an Onverser, if you at least took a quick glance at the Onverse ToU you would understand that as an Onverser, you are agreeing to not promote other virtual worlds within the game or forums. Whether you agree with this rule or not, it’s a rule and once you hit “sign up” you are agreeing to these rules. Considering you were/are a CEO of There/There2 you understand the whole deal with Terms of Use. I find the fact that you are “hoping they are not banning users like YowNow” is kind of.. a dumb move to be honest. Saying that is like basically saying that don’t join this game unless you plan on getting banned for being a Thereian. I see no point in bashing YowNow either. Yes, maybe what they did seems a bit unfair and unjust, but I don’t see why you need to publicly bash their game. Also, I don’t see why you need to make a point saying that they were posting it on the forums and they were being deleted because they wouldn’t advertise the game. I honestly don’t see why they need to advertise your game. I guess I partially understand with your being, how should I say, “upset” but I see no point saying it in a public blog for others to read because that is just putting Onverse and YowNow in a bad position and making them think they are haters. If you really played the game you’d know that the game is really growing a LOT and that the Onversers are very dedicated to the game, quite like how Thereians were dedicated to Also, there are weekly updates, events and tours daily, and a bunch of other things that happen on Onverse you don’t know the half of it. This reply did not make me any less interested in though. I am still excited and I still support it and I still plan on playing it when it comes out. I know you probably didn’t mean any harm either, but please read other games ToU’s before posting things like this. I am very excited for There and this won’t change my mind. I do want to say thanks though still!

    • #528 by Truck on 2011.04.12 - 12:50 pm

      “Get them to see the light that $20/month is the price of ONE GOOD MEAL a month!”
      One good meal? where u from? i don’t eat out much anymore but i never payed 20 bucks fer a meal.
      But thats fine with me i can aford to lose some weight. lol

  233. #529 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.12 - 8:25 am

    Michael if you do reopen there, would you do what u mentioned in a reply above give us a week to log and transfer inventory to our avatars ? since some dont know the emails they could just use their passwords im sure everyone remembers that and we could change our emails the 1s not in use anymore

    • #530 by watchlight on 2011.04.12 - 8:48 am

      Why change avatar? Can we not use our old avatar like before? :s

      • #531 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.12 - 10:31 am

        Read carefully. We won’t be forcing people to change avatars.

      • #532 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.12 - 10:58 am

        sorry i meant for people with more than one avatar give us 1 week to transfer the inventory to the ones we are gonna pay for

      • #533 by Karmapup on 2011.04.12 - 11:33 am

        The question of ‘multiple avatars’ has already been answered. For the time being, at least, you will need an account for each avatar you wish to retrieve. If you want multiple avies, then you will need multiple accounts, one for each of them.

  234. #534 by watchlight on 2011.04.12 - 7:55 am

    Please forgive me. But I think people are a little too stingy about their money.
    I see that 14.3 % don’t wanna spend a coin on
    Let me explain this on a diffrent way to those 14.3 %.
    This is BUSINESS ladies & gentlemen, not a take away meal.
    You must understand, that business can’t run without money. I think you 14.3 % should really see how much it costs to afford, well, just a Linux Server.
    If you want back, then you have to earn it too.
    20$ a month is nothing. I think, that if you pay those 20$ a month, then there would be some kind of bonus in that, like 10k Therebucks, I don’t know.
    Think about it at least..

    • #535 by Lostbuddyc on 2011.04.12 - 1:50 pm

      Take into account people that are under 18 and have no credit card, people who didn’t play long enough, people who are cheapskates and wouldn’t pay if you explained how business works in front of their faces and people who dislike MW but would still play the game and those numbers look about right.

  235. #536 by Jonathan on 2011.04.12 - 7:24 am

    I think a lot of people keep forgetting too – is that, the monthly-subscription fees aren’t the only source of income. TBux and Premium Accounts all cost money. Add on top of that any ad-revenue.

  236. #537 by There_forever on 2011.04.12 - 6:59 am

    OH and MW, perhaps when the survey is over and you give us the numbers, if the results of this survey aren’t good enough for There to re-open, maybe it would be a good idea to have one more survey saying that judging from the people who took part in the survey it would be neccesary for each member to pay $XX/month in order to get it opened. Are you willing to pay that amount? Yes or No. If you get enough Yes then open otherwise too bad for us.

  237. #538 by There_forever on 2011.04.12 - 6:54 am

    Go out on a Saturday night and tell me how much u spend guys and girls! I’m sure that it is much more than 66cents which would be the amount per day if you paid $20/month subscription. I’m sure that it would even be more than $20 as well! If you cant afford to pay 66cents a day then what can I say? Maybe we don’t deserve to have There open again.

    • #539 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.12 - 7:38 am

      Look how can anyone compare even free Second Life to THERE. I mean geesh your avie doesn’t even come with a face (skin). Every freaking thing (like body movements) is an add on. I spent weeks trying to look and just freakin “walk” normally. So after creating a cross-eyed freakish real looking avie – I walked around herky-jerky like a virtual zombie to find clothes in huge arenas and exhausted myself with the “options”.

      The THERE experience is “TURN-KEY”… one does not have to become a specialist or programmer to immediately look cute and start talking. The user interface is desgned to be simple… compared to the SL complexity. We gotta pay money for these features…

      Then compare the physics … in THERE everything worked… when you hit something with paintball or your hoverboard, it behaved realistically. YOu can’t “do anything” in SL that feels real. No boards, buggy racing not even a seamless world like THERE where you can drive around the globe seamlessly.

      There is no comparison in the User Experience, Ease, realistic body movements and physics that THERE provides. Is this worth $10 (33cents a day), or 66 cents a day? or even a buck a day? Come on, I don;t care the SL is free or any of the others. I tried them all and each had MAJOR holes – no voice, no pets, scary looking avies, creepy terrain, no buggies/boards, no easy emotes, did I mention creepy avies?

      The THERE package is unique and so very well designed, it was a joy. I hope we can get enuf ppl to step and let MW know we’ll pay to play. Please everyone help us get THERE back online!

      • #540 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.12 - 9:10 am

        I think what Joy is trying to say is simple:


        We got it for FREE before and the game went under!
        If WE want this to work, just accept the fact that its gonna cost all of us a little.
        Suck it up and pay a few bucks a month cuz you sure as hell aint gonna find anything like this anywhere else.

    • #541 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.12 - 7:50 am

      u said well on a saturday night not every day of the week

      • #542 by There_forever on 2011.04.12 - 8:23 am

        I think any day of the week if you go out u’ll probably spend more than $20. No offense to anyone in USA or Canada but almost every person I’ve met from there prefers to spend $5 to buy a coffee at starbucks rather than make one at home. Of course this doesnt mean that everybody does that but I hope you get the point. Compared to these I dont think 66 cents a day is too much!!!!
        I understand and agree with Marianne. I just have to add that in SL you can’t even walk because of the lag!!!!

  238. #543 by watchlight on 2011.04.12 - 6:01 am

    ‘waves to Innie again 🙂

    I hope that we’ll have a chance to get a beta client on or something Mr. Wilson 🙂
    I miss my friends from 🙂

  239. #544 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.12 - 5:21 am

    Seems the 2 biggest issues are <18 and monthly fees.

    No one esp MW gonna spill the beans that of course a person might use their parent's credit card (with their approval) and sign on as over 18. This would violate the TOS. So guys just quit arguing about this as its clear for legal and financial reasons the world will "OFFICIALLY" BE OVER 18 ONLY. MW must officially state and support this – even if there are ways around it which again would be violations of TOS. Just shush and figure it out on your own.

    As far as fees, I figure MW has to find enough stated interest to support 3-4 salaries/expenses, I estimate approx $400k per year. At $10 a month memberships that would require about 3333 members stating they'd pay $10 month. Or 1666 paying $20 per month.

    So if you wanna do something to make this happen, email EVERY THEREIAN… paste the survey link on as many Facebook pages as you can find, put on your homepage, call your friends and HAVE THEM RESPOND TO THE SURVEY.

    Best honest, wouldn't $20 per month be just about 3 meals out? Wouldn't you trade that for THERE all month long? How much more joy would you get from hoverboarding, playing with pets, falling from the sky and hanging with friends? Give Makena a break and realize that they have to pay salaries and their expenses?!?!

    MW already said he's NOT TAKING A SALARY… let's all step up to the plate and stop whining what is "not fair"? HOW FAIR WAS IT THAT MAKENA lost money on our play for years?

    SUPPORT MW AND MAKENA BY MAKING SURE THEY CAN MAKE MONEY… by spreading the word and stepping up to the plate to financially support a profitable THERE.

    I will pay $100 a month to get back Syn City and the Loaners. I want to go home!

    • #545 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.12 - 6:54 am

      How did you get $400K/year?

      • #546 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.12 - 6:56 am

        4 salaries of $50k/yr plus $200k expenses.

      • #547 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.12 - 6:57 am

        Oh sorry, I thought you’d said we’d already seen that amount of commitment.

      • #548 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.12 - 7:10 am

        I don’t believe $400k is enough a year, but at least it might pay the bills, especially as the labor intensive functions would either be eliminated or peer-review based (no labor cost) ie: moderators, forum moderators and design reviews. In fact if these can be off-loaded as no longer a THERE/Makena function… ie no forums at all hosted by Makena, but hosted elsewhere by user groups… so much bullshit would be eliminated.

        My circles in THERE were mostly adults who easily spent 1000s of dollars inworld per year – as I did. I believe expanding this core group can grow the subscription revenue to a sustainable level.

        In fact if the survey might be missing some relevant questions targeted to this group such as: for unlimited paintball, some real estate and a certain stipend, would you be willing to pay up to $50/mo, $100/mo, $150/mo. Clearly many of us WERE spending that. How much easier would it be if we got everything we wanted and had one set price – at a beneficial value (better exchange rate etc)? I think there are many folks who would buy such a membership.

      • #549 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.12 - 7:13 am

        Can you tell us how much you do feel is needed in stated subscription revenue? Am I close? Or would that info skew the survey?

  240. #550 by NathanAvis on 2011.04.12 - 3:55 am

    By “I strongly recommend” I meant “IF you do, how about” :p

    Forgive me for being rather assertive with ya Mr. CEO! After all you know best. These are exciting times, and I get a little carried away!

    -NathanAvis, the original D00M, the original MrSinister, the original SinisterDark. (2004).

  241. #551 by KevinF on 2011.04.12 - 3:26 am

    Michael, is the word of mouth at this point raking in sufficient results? (in terms of numbers)

    • #552 by Kaden on 2011.04.12 - 6:45 am

      its not a joke if its coming from the guy who had running

  242. #553 by dag on 2011.04.12 - 3:02 am

    What would really suck is if this were a big april fool’s joke

  243. #554 by JJ Johnson on 2011.04.12 - 2:32 am

    When you pay for the member ship do you pay once and then it takes money out your card and when theirs no money left on the card will the membership cancel?

    • #555 by pHluid13 on 2011.04.12 - 6:47 am

      No money. No service. It’s simple.

  244. #556 by PinkSaphire84 on 2011.04.12 - 2:30 am

    Looking over these posts, there really isn’t anything I can say that hasn’t been said. So I had my options, 1. I could simply keep my thoughts to myself and carry on, or 2. Banana. I took the survey. I -and a few others i know- fully support There2. Like many have mentioned, There really isn’t anything else out there like it. Its a wonderful game, and has become a type of home for those who wish for a brief escape from reality. But all this you know. Thank you for your continued efforts! One of my friends peed a little when I told him about the There2 Idea.

  245. #557 by Woodstock on 2011.04.12 - 2:15 am

    This is stupid. I think that there still should be non premi accounts that are free. How do you expect to gain new members when they have to start paying just to log on. I think that premi members should pay monthly and when this payment is not made on a particular month they drop back down to basic membership (much like vmtv!)

  246. #558 by mimi06 on 2011.04.12 - 2:12 am

    Reading these comments dailey seems more like watching “Family Feud”………SURVEY says! “IF”

  247. #559 by Rubmon on 2011.04.12 - 1:45 am

    While reading all comments in this thread, I see a lot of people exited about getting back but without any good suggestions we may as well have our place only open temporarily then have to shut down again because of luck of funds.
    While many of us consider this place a home away from home, obviously for M. Wilson this is a business and like any business, cash flow has to keep coming in order to stay open.
    Here is my idea to get our place back for a very long time; this idea comes from playing other games and seeing how they are operated to keep their revenue leakage to a minimum.
    • Use 2 different currencies, therebucks as the main currency, this would only be used for paying rent, buying items out of shops etc. (no option to transfer therebucks between members, this would keeps the 3rd party from taking the revenue from the company.
    • Second currency would allow members to trade their personal items, buy from each other etc. but this currency would not hold any there bucks value, therefore can not be traded for there bucks and can not be used to pay rent or buy stuff from (have a way so members can regularly earn second currency such as events, hunting for currency throughout the world etc.)
    • take ownership of all designs ever made and list them in shops at regular price and yes this would include my team’s designs if need be, with this huge inventory there would be no need for designers to take the revenue from the company, allow designers to submit items for shops if they want but offer them second currency payment.
    • Charge a reasonable monthly membership fee, in return offer all entertainment for free, including paintballing or at least give paintballers a break “one can only wish lol”

    Mr. Wilson I hope at least you give my ideas some consideration.

    • #560 by xSnoopy on 2011.04.12 - 8:46 am

      While I cant disagree with your first 2 suggestions, the third one seems, on the surface to be ok, but in giving it more thought, I doubt that you will see any of the serious designers back in game, EVER.
      You want to take away all their past hard work and give the future profits to There. While its a nice thought to help MW keep There2 open, all it will do is alienate most, if not all of the really good designers that spent so many hours doing what they do so well. If There did take control of all designs, then if a percentage of a sale was paid, in TBucks to the original designer, that is a better idea but that is basically the same system the original There had.
      If memory serves, all the team uniforms we had were designed by those very designers.

      • #561 by Soede on 2011.04.13 - 7:59 pm

        As much as I love There, if they took away all our designs and sold them for themselves, I would be done with There. I wont design for vSide because they take your designs and sell them for themselves, and while that’s not the standard for Kaneva, they have been known to do the same, so not going to design their either.
        There had a very appealing system for designers and I wouldn’t want to see that nerfed in any way. I have some concerns about eliminating 3rd party resellers as I still cant see why this was such an issue. It’s not like the Tbux actually left the system. If There wants to keep that piece of the pie too, that is their prerogative though, so long as they get their own reselling system up and running soon to keep the dynamic the same as before!!

      • #562 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.13 - 8:17 pm

        I can’t even imagine taking designs from designers. That’s just plain stealing IP.

        Resellers consumed >25% (probably 30%) of There’s revenue. It was a big deal.

  248. #563 by Munp on 2011.04.12 - 1:12 am

    If there returns, it will help me quit smoking more because I would rather spend the money on a pair of super bunnies which I never got round to getting

  249. #564 by Tony B on 2011.04.11 - 9:41 pm

    Mr. Wilson: Are you really serious about reopening, or just playing with us? How long if you decide to open will it take to open?

  250. #565 by dakotaman on 2011.04.11 - 9:34 pm

    Hi Michael,

    I can’t say that I’ve ever been so happy to fill out an online survey as I was when I learned of you exploring the option of reopening There (thanks to my old friend, Thumdar who shared the link on FB). You can be sure that I will be sharing this survey with every former Thereian I know and hope that all who have posted or read this thread do the same. I have never wavered in my belief that There has always been a labor of love to you, analogous to the effect that the world of There had on it’s many dedicated members. And whether or not, the time turns out to be now or somewhere down the line, I am glad that you never ‘sold out’ that vision. I said it in this blog over a year ago and I am even more convinced after a year of searching for a new ‘home’ that There continues to be a unique in the world at being the best social mmo. As an active member for over 6 years (having been born in There just after beta — damn the lost beta invite, I am as excited as ever about a possible reopening, which speaks for itself after 6 years of playing the game (Even WoW loses its luster after you’ve reached your level cap…haha).

    Anyway, there have been lots of ideas here and the reappearance of many old friends (shout out to Meret and Celtic, among others). I will await further news and want you to know that There will always be home… matter your decision after the survey ends. In the meantime I will patiently wait with PayPal a click away!!

    (off to Thumdar’s site, I go)


  251. #566 by NathanAvis on 2011.04.11 - 9:19 pm

    Hi Michael Wilson,

    Cannot tell you how thrilled I am even at the possibility There.Com might reopen.
    After you have gotten the numbers from this survey, are you going to make another? I strongly recommend that you do and have it focus on the economics and how much customers are willing to invest/ how they would invest in their previous There.Com pastimes.

    For example, a lot of us were hood owners, or tycoons in portable real estate hotspots (Zephyr, Duda Beach, PAZ Island etc.).
    Some of us were paintballers and no doubt broke a few mice in all the clicking/tbuck madness!
    Some of us were big into 3rd party tools that we felt enriched all aspects of Theres for us like dancing, decorating, testing objects, exploring.

    Those are all things that you could gain from financially, or alter payment plans and benefits of to benefit you and your potential customers.

  252. #567 by ally on 2011.04.11 - 8:25 pm

    How long do we have to wait??? its killing me!

  253. #569 by Sue on 2011.04.11 - 6:03 pm

    I am so excited about this news. Thank you Michael Wilson for never giving up on us and, i will continue to show my support monthly for the service.
    Love Sue

  254. #570 by Nigel Blackthorne on 2011.04.11 - 5:08 pm

    Michael, you mentioned the costs involved in running this service in California…as a former northern Californian I understand that the costs are high there (rent/utilities/saleries…etc)…some tech companies (Google and Yahoo) have located facilites up here in the pacific northwest for lower taxes, rent, utilities. Would that be an option for at least part of the operation to help mitigate costs?


    • #571 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.11 - 5:40 pm

      It’s not a hosting issue (any more). It’s people, and salaries for these sorts of folks really don’t vary from state to state.

      • #572 by Winston on 2011.04.11 - 7:03 pm

        C’mon…Get outta that liberal haven, California, and get to a blood red state like Utah or Idaho. You could pay your people in Tbux and not have any problems (from a legal stand point anyway). Both states badly want tech firms and their tax policies favor business so much they might even pay you to set up shop there 🙂

        p.s. This was sarcasm.

      • #573 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.11 - 7:21 pm

        If I moved out of California, I’d move to a REAL state, like Montana. ;-).

        p.s. This was sarcasm too.

      • #574 by Brandyn_1 on 2011.04.12 - 6:33 am

        Hahaha! Thats to freaking funny! Why not come to Florida? beaches on 3 sides? wouldn’t you love it if we got hit by a Tsunami ?

        Just kidding! – I live here.

  255. #575 by WHooopie on 2011.04.11 - 4:42 pm

    Hello, I would like to ask that you reconsider letting certain banned memebers come back. Not all especially the ones that committed fraud and other major offenses. How ever some ppl were banned for ridicoulous reasons. I know it was a pg 13 environment but even on tv you can say things like fart knocker and donkey balls. You actually lost ALOT of money with the number of people you banned for silly stuff. Plus you had certain people who made it habby to follow others around on second new free account and record everything. Of course if you stalk someone eventually your gonna catch them saying something to report. Any how just a thought

  256. #576 by ABC on 2011.04.11 - 4:21 pm

    Please unban those who made mistakes and really wish to come back to We are your most loyal members!!!! i’d be willing to pay anything to get my account back :((

    • #577 by luckyjunior2005 on 2011.04.11 - 7:31 pm

      It seems to me that if the people who were banned were really There’s most loyal members, you wouldn’t have violated the TOS in the first place. But that’s just my opinion…

  257. #578 by ABC on 2011.04.11 - 4:20 pm

    Please unban those who made mistakes and really wish to come back to We are your most loyal members!!!! i’d be willing to pay anything to get my account bacl :((

  258. #579 by Tbonz on 2011.04.11 - 4:14 pm

    Hello again Michael i know you said you wouldn’t answer to questions about the age limit but please as a favor tell me your honest opinion would you care that younger people played i don’t want to sound mean in anyway but wasn’t half of 13-17 years of age (rough estimate) please don’t give me the potatoes i want the beef. And on any occasion do you think you could maybe but a game rating such as 15+ i mean this might be weird but porn sites say 18 plus and you said pornography would not be in there i believe but anyways please respond so i know where i stand if the time comes

  259. #580 by The Truth on 2011.04.11 - 4:08 pm

    The truth of the matter is “Why pay to go on There2 when you can go on Second Life for free?” At some point you’re going to have to offer a free option, whether you like it or not.

  260. #581 by Codrod on 2011.04.11 - 4:07 pm

    MW, Check this out as well 🙂 It is a discussion about the possible re-open.

    (Real life plus forums)

  261. #582 by Lyrically_Lethal on 2011.04.11 - 4:05 pm

    Reading these comment’s sicken me. I am not here to argue or debate so I won’t reply after this. I’ll most likely never come back to this page.

    • #583 by ABC on 2011.04.11 - 5:57 pm

      lol steph go away, you make me sick, keep your negativity out of here and let us therians that want it back flourish kbye.

    • #584 by SpeedRacer on 2011.04.12 - 12:32 am

      I never knew words on a screen could sicken you? did you be sick already? you know where to go dont you, if you dont like it bye bye!

  262. #585 by jonathan5k2006 on 2011.04.11 - 3:35 pm

    So MW is there any latest results on numbers for the survey?? I hope you can get this game going again… are you looking forward to opening up there and maybe this time coming in to chat with us all an have a laugh? :)))

  263. #586 by living without There. on 2011.04.11 - 3:31 pm

    Wow as much as would love to see There open again i wouldnt blame MW for closing this discussion and Thread after reading all these negative post and demands. Brings back all the bad memorys of the people who made There miserable and why we grouped together in our own zones. This is supposed to be a time when we support the idea of reopening There not demands or whinning about the age etc..

  264. #587 by KevinF on 2011.04.11 - 3:25 pm

    Instead of wasting time making ridiculous requests, why don’t we all notify everyone we ever played with, with respect to the actual survey. It is not guaranteed that is making a return, and currently, this survey is moving relatively slowly through just word of mouth advertising. – Please, make conscious efforts about notifying anyone you’ve played with, and pass the message on.

    Secondly, I just wanted to thank you Mr Wilson, for at least considering the re-opening of You made an interesting post earlier about ‘changing the lives of at least one’, or something along those lines anyways – nevertheless, you have provided a local hang out spot for me and a lot of my friends, who basically grew up playing It was a sad, sad day to see it go. Thanks so much for all your efforts, both in running – and attempting to revive it.

  265. #588 by RunningHawk on 2011.04.11 - 2:13 pm

    If you people stayed out Second Life would not have to worry about getting rid of your Lidens lol I just hate that game but hope they open I would be willing spend 20.00 month get the best game ever was online:)

  266. #589 by Infamous on 2011.04.11 - 1:22 pm

    Honestly, i think you should just unban Every account out there, and let everyone have a second chance (sense its a new game) and go with my idea about how to run the premium membership, become alot of people are agreeing with it..

    “Second life has a very on-going economy, and they have a smart setup, i was thinking that you could do that with there, INSTEAD of a monthly fee, is offer a basic account (What the old new members had in the day , no voice / trade for free) then you got the Platinum Accounts (Voice, Trade, Tbux, pazs etc for 10, or 20$ or whatever.) And finally the Golds that pay monthly 10$, for (voice, trade, tbux, developer rights, Land ownership , Live Help (Zones) ) That way, you are still getting money from the gold members if they want to upgrade fully, Your STILL getting new people who like to play and are not sure if they are willing to spend 10$, and you have your basic members that do not develop or are interested in owning land or zones so, basic buggy racers / pbers. So really, with the gold you would get live help access, Being able to buy/rent zones, and being able to develop.
    I believe this allows people who wish to have more, have more, and people who cannot afford 10$ or are willing to pay 10$ monthly have there fun to. Everyone wins hopefully this time. Just a thought, that i would love for you to look into so everyone has a chance to play.”

    And a response :
    “#340 by Asadchick on 2011.04.08 – 9:14 pm
    maybe you could change it.. The people with premium accounts, can get there account back but they half to pay 20$ or whatever you want, And Basics..(your choice) & New members that havent made one yet, Should go with the idea above ^^ Infamous. So practicly….Premiums from before it closed have a better deal cuz they still stick with there premium ( but half to pay to get there account back,) And then new commers (just do infamous”s idea) And then just keep it 13+ Becaues you will still be getting money And like 70% is uner 18 So you will beloosing costumrs and they will be loosinther hearts So i think its a good idea hbu?.”

    Altho, i do not agree with her by saying it should Not be a +18 Game. If you think about it alot of members of where under 18, and still was able to pay for tbux, i believe some of the $ came from them.
    Also, another reason the company was probably losing $ was because of the other tbux websites, you could buy tbux from maybe deny that.
    Id just like to say us old members shouldnt have to pay 10$ monthly if we already payed once, by doing what i said above gives them the option to just stay with 10$ one time fee, but still have to buy tbux.

    Please comment this time.

    • #590 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.11 - 2:02 pm

      “Please comment this time.”? Excuse me?

      • #591 by jimony on 2011.04.11 - 2:16 pm

        LOL “Excuse me?” That WAS a comment!
        I don’t think one sad chick agreeing with him makes “alot”. Sorry, but I couldn’t follow much more than that.

      • #592 by Wendy Stoll on 2011.04.11 - 2:18 pm

        Want me to smack ’em for ya, Michael?? Or…maybe I’m just using you as a cover…

      • #593 by Infamous on 2011.04.11 - 2:23 pm

        You didn’t comment on my last one so i was just asking for you to comment on this..
        Do you think its a good idea? whats ur thoughts?

      • #594 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.11 - 2:32 pm

        I think I’m worried about getting enough responses to the survey right now to make a decision.

    • #595 by Codrod on 2011.04.11 - 2:09 pm

      Defiantly agreed all the way.

    • #596 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.11 - 2:43 pm

      Infamous…honestly, can you be a little less self centered? MW is trying to decide if there’s enough potential profit to EVEN CONSIDER opening. Prattling on about detail questions and expecting a CEO to soothe your curiosity is a waste of his time! PLEASE respect other’s time by letting him FOCUS on determining if the business model will work. Details will follow. Honestly I’m concerned about turning the guy off with redundant, boring, off-topic demands. This will not contribute to getting THERE opened. Let’s bitch later…there plenty of time for that ;0).

      • #597 by Codrod on 2011.04.11 - 4:01 pm

        Well, you would want to get unbanned if you were banned…
        I was banned for a reason that I was not told, I am not criticising the ex Helpers of There or the company, I just think they were mistaken because I wouldn’t break the TOS.

  267. #598 by Syntech on 2011.04.11 - 1:20 pm

    When will you officially close this survey?? Also myself working in a bit of marketing and running a company i see how it can be difficult but truthly i think you should give like a one day trial.

  268. #599 by Celtic on 2011.04.11 - 1:02 pm

    I’m very happy to see that changes in technology and structure might mean a return of There..I took the survey, sharing that I would be willing to pay a subscription cost in a 18+world. In fact, I’d come to want those things before There closed…

    Being active in-world from late 2003 until it closed last year, over the years I am pretty darn sure that I spent money that ran into the four digits…and for the most part, I didn’t mind because I was having a good time. And I totally know that I am not alone in having spent a lot of money in There. Some people spend their fun money at the movies or fast food or in subscriptions to WoW etc, I chose to spend a lot of it in There.

    I am always amazed when I read that some people think that There should just exist and cost them nothing…I just sit and shake my head that some people complain that *GASP* There might want to turn a profit… Hell, I want There to turn a profit for two reasons. One-they deserve it. If you want good people-and thus a good product, you’ve got to be willing to pay them well and There had some of the best, most insanely dedicated people I’ve ever seen. The second reason is, if There-and other virtual worlds can find a model to be profitable, that will mean better features, more advertising, more investors and so on. And all of that means a better product, more choices and more people to meet and hang out with.

    So in short, I am glad that-if There re-opens-it will be on a subscription basis.

    On a related thought~Speaking for myself, my activity level slacked off (and thus my spending lessened) when the demographics changed so sharply and continued to slide towards a younger group with free accounts (or at least it seemed that way). I started playing There as a 29 year old, and finished as a 36 year interests changed over the years, but not my love of virtual worlds. As an *cough* thirty something guy, I wanted to meet and hang out with people around my ageish so you know~we could share complaints about bad hips and those damn teenage kids on our paz lawns;). It became more and more difficult for me to find people with whom I shared common interests. I always had hoped that the activities section of There Central would have been more robust along with maybe? keyword searchable profiles?, anything to help people find others with similar interests..

    anyway, thank you Michael Wilson for having a soft spot in your heart for There and for keeping at work on trying to make a go of it. I hope you can find a way to open it back up and make it profitable. From moment one it was home and I miss it.


  269. #600 by Lee on 2011.04.11 - 12:54 pm

    Do you know an exact date you will be making the decision? Sorry but I need to be counting down soon.

  270. #601 by Cassie on 2011.04.11 - 12:29 pm

    Is it safe to assume that a decision will be formed by may? Around 5/7?

    Also, probably another annoying question, but if this was to proceed, could there possibly be a thereIM app created, for like, an iPhone/iPad?

  271. #602 by Antaios on 2011.04.11 - 12:28 pm

    Ok i have only one question will PINK be banned? just saying!

    • #603 by Orielle on 2011.04.11 - 1:28 pm

      Why would he ban pink when he returned to Pink Freaks, Inc? Didn’t you see my post on Thumdar? 😛

      Haha Sorry Michael. Couldn’t resist changing the url when I saw someone post link trying to say you had returned to Forterra when obviously it was just a link for the person to return to the Forterra profile.

      Oh by the way, IF There does reopen could you be so kind as to put clothes on my avie? I left her sitting on a log in Karuna Plaza in default undies, pink super bunnies, and my newb hair. It’d be interesting to see how you’d dress me. 😛

  272. #604 by jimony on 2011.04.11 - 12:00 pm

    I think there should be free trials shortly after There reopens that are Ghosts. They can see but can’t be seen. In the chat bubbles all they will see is “If you were a paid member, you could see what I am saying.” When someone talks on mic, they would hear a recording saying the same message. There could be bots and tutorials that could help them learn how to manuever while in trial mode. Just an idea for future trials that wouldn’t interfere with paid members activities. Since they couldn’t hear or see what is actually communicated you wouldn’t have to worry about age verification until they want to be paid members. Since they couldn’t interact with real members, you don’t have to worry about alternate accounts, in fact, you could have one avatar prenamed and setup as a ghost that anyone can log into to test it. For instance “Adam” could be multiple ghosts that only the person logged into can see. You wouldn’t have to use storage or waste avatar names on trials.

    • #605 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.11 - 12:24 pm

      Ok folks, as much as I like all this discussion, this isn’t a very good venue for these things. If you take the discussion over to say, Thumdar, or Vonira, we can all follow it there.

      • #606 by TherianForever on 2011.04.11 - 12:59 pm

        If they took it to Vonira, they’d probably be banned from the site 😛

      • #607 by jimony on 2011.04.11 - 1:44 pm

        There is a discussion about future ideas and suggestions at Thumdar.
        T.F.; I was thinking the same thing. I’d actually like to read what they have to say there but I was banned from Vonira for attempting to rebuttal accusations against my wife and myself started by my nephew so I had decided OwNow isn’t worth it. I probably wouldn’t be allowed on anyway for my outspoken veiws of the way There and all Therians were slandered by its founder.
        I think Thumdar is the only really valid place to take this discussion since it isn’t in competition.
        Hope to see you all there, if not, hope to see you all There.

      • #608 by VoniLei on 2011.04.11 - 2:11 pm

        Jimony, RealLifePlus has a thread about this survey, and discussion is welcomed there 🙂

      • #609 by jimony on 2011.04.11 - 8:21 pm

        Yes, RealLifePlus are good people. First, I hope There can flourish because I already know it has what I want, but I will also support RLP because they ARE good people and competition does make the product better.
        It is really great to see the professionalism and the good will of a competing company as RLP. Our discussions at RLP about There can help them find nuggets of information they can use for their own.

  273. #610 by Therians Fan on 2011.04.11 - 11:58 am

    I see why resellers were an issue in There, but it did help with the flow of the currency moving. If you did this by for each transaction that someone buys money from a third party they would have to pay $X transaction fee, and in order to become a reseller you would have to pay $X a month, so that A. we know they aren’t scamming us, and B. you would get something in return. The transaction fee would go towards your company as well as becoming a reseller. Is it possible if that could happen in the near future?

  274. #611 by Brido on 2011.04.11 - 11:48 am

    Hey brido here, MW just got a quick question to ask, Say there does open which of course we all hope for and can help towards. How would the paypal thing work? You say you don’t need an account and you won’t be accepting credit cards? I’m not familiar with paypal so exactly how would payments work. Thank you.

    • #612 by Jordan Charters on 2011.04.11 - 11:01 pm

      PayPal gives you the option to either use your PayPal account and pay, or manually type in your credit card details etc to pay individually each time. Having the account makes it easier so you don’t have to type in your card details each time and safer.

  275. #613 by Austin B on 2011.04.11 - 11:31 am

    Have any Ther-e-conomy boosting strategies been discussed? Like spending 100,000 Tbucks in one month gets the next month free? -or something along those lines. That would definately boost auction sales, and people may be willing to spend more overall.

    For 10$ I can get premium membership.
    But for 25$ I can 25$ worth of T and it would send me over the 100k limit… 🙂

    Just thinking a bit outside the box-incentives for the major players. Of course I wouldn’t implement this immediately but it (or some other reward system for the socioeconomic upper class) should definitely be looked into…

    • #614 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.11 - 11:36 am

      We’re not discussing those things yet. We’re just trying to figure out if there enough interest to open.

  276. #615 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.11 - 11:21 am

    Michael as u mentioned before youre not gonna accept credit cards? cause i know some people dont use paypal i know wel have paybycash but still no cc?

    • #616 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.11 - 11:36 am

      PayPal will accept credit cards for us. You don’t need a PayPal account.

  277. #617 by Lauren02 on 2011.04.11 - 10:44 am

    Ahhh! This would be so exciting! I can still remember asking my mom to buy for me, for my 13th birthday..haha. I am now 21 so it would be a great visit down memory lane 🙂

  278. #618 by SassyBeMe on 2011.04.11 - 10:32 am

    Some one will probably smack me for this one. 🙂 What if you go back to offering different membership cost like you had when I started. Maybe not exact amounts like the 4.99 I think it was per month with few t’s added allowance. What I’m thinking is those that sign up for the buyback program pay more like the 20 a month with no t-buck added. Then You don’t have to worry about what t’s are being sold back. Or have watermarked (maybe). Maybe I don’t think of all the cheats either.

    • #619 by Joeydantonio on 2011.04.11 - 11:23 am

      Yeah, I like the idea of having different membership plans.

      For example, if you pay $10 a month you get all the benefits and a little allowance. But if you pay $15 a month you get all the benefits and a little MORE of an allowance/bonuses etc… If you pay $20 a month, you get all the benefits and the biggest allowance.

      That way, those of us who are willing to pay the $15 a month or $20 a month— can still help out as much as we can and pay what our ‘limit’ is while still getting more benefits for it than the people paying $10 a month. This will probably encourage those paying $10 a month to consider paying more monthly as well for maximum benefits.

      Each plan name would be something similar to most games with membership plans… maybe $10/Month would be Bronze, $15/Month would be Silver, and $20/Month would be Gold.


      As for the talk of how we will not get new members to join us if there is no way to log in unless you pay:: I think if new members were allowed to join but were RESTRICTED to certain abilities unless they became ‘paid members’… For example- Not allowed to have voice, not allowed to go to certain areas in the world, not allowed in neighborhoods or funzones, etc. it would be a great way to get new members to ‘log in’, but technically not be getting the full experience of itself.

    • #620 by DavyRocket on 2011.04.11 - 11:44 am

      ‘Smacks Sassy 😛

      • #621 by v on 2011.04.11 - 12:11 pm

        geez – he was faster than I was…. ‘smacks dave :))

    • #622 by truck on 2011.04.11 - 3:28 pm

      Hey SassyBeMe
      “What I’m thinking is those that sign up for the buyback program pay more like the 20 a month with no t-buck added. Then You don’t have to worry about what t’s are being sold back. Or have watermarked”

      What about haveing 2 seperit t-buxs catagorys.
      1 fer designer profit and 1 fer what u bought in t’s or sold in regular auction (Not designer)
      *Added u can dump designer t’s into reg account but not the other way around
      u can use both for what u do normaly, but the designer is the only 1 u can use fer buyback
      What u think??? is that a watermark?
      T’s = regular t-buxs
      DT’s= Designer t-buxs

      • #623 by DavyRocket on 2011.04.12 - 6:43 am

        This is a good idea. In Blue Mars we have 2 separate blu’s 1 is user blu which cannot be given to a developer, then you have developer blu. Only developer blu can be sold, or given to another user member for such things as “refunds”. As a dev you can see how much “dev” blu you have available. You can also transfer dev blu to your user account only, not vice versa, but you do get 75% of that blu back, if’en you bought your own product. AR gets the other 25% tax, and I really like paying a tax per item rather than paying 1800 tbucks just to submit, then paying just to add to the auction pages. That really made it hard for any new developer/designer to get started. I would do not mind paying to list in auctions, but pay for each submission NO I do not like.

      • #624 by jimony on 2011.04.12 - 8:30 am

        This is basically the same thing I suggested about DBucks. Except only T’s can be used to pay for rent or There content. D’s could be used to buy from Developer.
        D’s could be sold back to There (minus a fee) for T’s or possibly cashed out. D’s could be traded between users but all T’s have to be purchased only from There.

      • #625 by SassyBeMe on 2011.04.15 - 5:19 am

        Huh well, I didn’t think regular t buck sales from resold items was a big deal. I can see not wanting to buy back tbucks that were gifted with a membership. That would be wrong. Unless they choose not to allow buyback of t’s to any non developer. Which really they would have to separate t bucks then cause every one would just sign up for the developer program like they did with workshop zones. I might be wrong, but I thought he was referring to Outside resellers of tbucks. Not resellers of products in game.
        I also like keeping things simple and sweet. I also don’t think of all the cheats people do unless they tell me. 🙂
        I’m sure there will be more discussions about this later IF, WHEN, they reopen. 🙂 I’m not apposed to any ideas that work for both.

  279. #626 by Pickels on 2011.04.11 - 10:17 am

    My friends and I are possibly thinking about coming back if There was to reopen but one deciding factor I had a question about, Since we were forced to leave I have invested my money into Lindens in the game of Second Life – If my friends and i came back to there would we be able to transfer our lindens into Therebucks ? If you would be willing to do this my friends and i would likely come back,

    • #627 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.11 - 10:33 am

      How in the world would we do that?

      • #628 by Austin B on 2011.04.11 - 11:37 am

        Can you transfer my dirt to gold? 🙂

    • #629 by pHluid13 on 2011.04.11 - 11:42 am

      Maybe there is a site that will purchase your lindens for money and then you can use that money to purchase tbux. Kind of like an exchange program site. I’m sure there’s something like that out there. has to open first before you can do that though. =)

      • #630 by truck on 2011.04.11 - 1:42 pm

        lindens have there own buy back for ther L$, but remember 1 thing with the lindens. its never the same price.. 1 min it can be (ex- $10 = 2000 L$ and 30 mins later it could be $12 = 2000L$) and u can ony sell back $300 worth of L$ a month..

    • #631 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.11 - 2:34 pm

      Hey Voni…how are ya? Excited? I miss you. Let’s hookup at Duda when THERE opens and have a party.

      • #632 by VoniLei on 2011.04.11 - 2:57 pm

        Hi Joy!

        I swear, if There reopens, I will lay claim to my old paz land and drop there again. I miss my pond and my log cabin in Monkey Crater!! And I miss my hoverboard! I left my avvie at Top of the World….LOL

  280. #633 by KevinF on 2011.04.11 - 9:14 am

    Michael Wilson reached level 85 on world of warcraft, failed horrifically in his attempt to become a gladiator of the arena, and now brings back 🙂 GG

    • #634 by VoniLei on 2011.04.11 - 11:06 am

      And that’s relevant how, exactly? o_O

  281. #635 by Meret on 2011.04.11 - 9:00 am

    While it’s nice you are evaluating re-opening There, I think you really need to come up with a more robust approach to payment options or risk closing a 2nd time. Imo, real virtual worlds are suffering even more than they were last year. While I expect you would probably do fine at first from the old-timers, the need to pay first to come back in after someone takes a break (and they will after 4-6 months) would be a huge hurdle most would not take. And while trials are mostly a pain, without some form of them available, growth would be harder than it was. A couple of things to consider,

    – No monthly fee if a person is renting any form of real estate (serves multiple purposes)
    – Consider a refundable trial (pay $10, will be funded within 15 days if they choose not to stay)
    – Provide 1 free month they can use within 12 months to return if they cancel (min of 3 months previous continuous payment)
    – Allow paying members to grant a 15 day free trial to their friends (they are responsible)
    – Make paintball within funzones no cost (normal payments if used outside of funzones)
    – Get rid of some of the land, the world was too big for the population

    My last comment should you choose to try this again. Capitalize much better this time on building out There’s unique features. It’s only those things that other worlds still can’t provide that makes people want to see There open again. World physics, continuous travel, avatars and chat, vehicles, etc.

    • #636 by VoniLei on 2011.04.11 - 10:58 am

      Keep the land. Get rid of all that extra ocean! LOL

      Good points, Meret, but I’d expect nothing less of you 😛

      • #637 by soede on 2011.04.11 - 10:21 pm

        Dead on.

    • #638 by SaltySilver on 2011.04.12 - 12:28 pm

      Meret: why? – Make paintball within funzones no cost (normal payments if used outside of funzones. Are you talking paintball refills? I call Foul play. unless its the same for buggies… Its better to have free refills as we had when the closing of there was announced. Remember we do have forcefields.

  282. #639 by Therians Fan on 2011.04.11 - 8:56 am

    For those who don’t know, I myself what a ‘cloud’ is, but could you explain to the members of the community what it is and what it does? A lot of people I am speaking to have no clue what it is, and I think it would be great if you can explain more about it. 🙂

  283. #640 by Brandyn_1 on 2011.04.11 - 8:34 am

    If does return. Will the avatars be remodeled? Or were they every remodeled?

    • #641 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.11 - 8:52 am

      Existing avatars will be the same. As I’ve said, we’ve had the person who developed There’s original avatars working on updating them, but I’m not sure how we will roll them out yet.

      • #642 by mmmm22222222 on 2011.04.13 - 6:02 am

        I saw pictures of new faces to avatars, I’m sure I seen them on this blog actualy, would these new faces be in game? Or are they still be worked on for animations etc?

  284. #643 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.11 - 8:13 am

    also michael will profiles still exist and every skill etc?

  285. #645 by KevinF on 2011.04.11 - 7:49 am

    Fair enough, my final suggestion would be to disallow the avie name brad, or any make up thereof. (you know what I`m talking about.)

    • #646 by Bradley Cornwest on 2011.04.11 - 8:28 am

      This would be a suggestion full of discrimination. I can’t believe you would actually post this. Maybe they could disallow you?

  286. #647 by Rick caldas on 2011.04.11 - 7:45 am

    well free paintball no but make it more affordable, 200tbucks each reload werent that cheap u could just simply charge 200 tbucks outside paintball zones, but when in paintball matches we could have unlimited balls (paintballs)

    • #648 by jimony on 2011.04.11 - 8:39 am

      I think most paintballers already had those.

  287. #649 by VoniLei on 2011.04.11 - 7:36 am

    With all due respect, Michael, I think not allowing any free play at all would be a huge mistake. There is a large fan base (including myself) that would be more than willing to pay to play because they’ve been in world before, and loved it. However, in the interest of having NEW players come to the game, I don’t think many would be willing to shell out real life $$ for a game they’ve never played before. Is there a way to allow a certain number of hours of free play before payment, perhaps linked to email or IP or something? I feel that not allowing any ‘free samples’ of game time would be detrimental in the long run.

    • #650 by Evan on 2011.04.11 - 9:09 am

      I have to agree with Vonie here. I think there should be a SHORT free trial, and by short I mean probably a week, maybe less. Maybe even just one full day. I do agree people need a chance to try a place out before they pony up the money. I would also dramatically lower the times of the Try Its. It was fully possible to make your way in that world for free simply by using the extended try it times. Make them 2 minutes, max. That’s more than enough time to see how something looks on you, or how well a hoverboat looks in the sky. All of this, IMHO, of course.

      • #651 by VoniLei on 2011.04.11 - 12:13 pm

        *waves to Evan*

        I was even thinking that long…I was thinking in terms of hours. Like, 12 hours total play time or something.

        When I first heard about There, I was adamant that I wasn’t going to pay to play anything online when there were so many free things. I was logged in for all of 5 mins when I pulled out my CC and plunked down my $10. It was being IN WORLD that changed my mind….I think a lot of people are the same way.

      • #652 by VoniLei on 2011.04.11 - 12:16 pm

        Ugh! That first sentence should read that I *WASNT thinking that long. I really must learn to proofread before hitting ‘post comment’ *headdesk*

    • #653 by Shizuka_no_Umi on 2011.04.11 - 9:21 am

      Agree with Voni on this, especially with all those “free-to-play” MMOs out there, if you want to be able to have some new players to join, a free trial is absolutely necessary.

      Even massively known pay-to-play games, such as World of Warcraft, offer free-trials of 30 days.

      • #654 by truck on 2011.04.11 - 1:32 pm

        only problem i seen last time with free trials, is after the trial is over they make a new name. i remember when i first joined THERE. $4.95 fer my name 10 music, 20 voice and 20 explorer pack and i had only 14 days to deside to do it. i payed the 4.95 and down the road i bought the payed for the voice music and ex pack. as for 2 other friends they keep getting the trials and it was to a point i gave up adding them to my buddys list.

    • #655 by Wendy Stoll on 2011.04.11 - 12:07 pm

      Hiya Voni!
      I agree with you, too 🙂

      • #656 by VoniLei on 2011.04.11 - 1:03 pm

        Hi Wendy!!

        Geesh, it’s like…a reunion! *giggle*

        Poor MW having to wade thru and moderate all these comments. Your head must be spinning! LOL

  288. #657 by KevinF on 2011.04.11 - 7:33 am

    Do you have an answer for my question Mr Wilson?

    • #658 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.11 - 7:41 am

      I will not have as much time this week to answer questions unrelated to the survey. Sorry.

  289. #659 by Phantasmagoria on 2011.04.11 - 7:26 am

    Woah woah woah, let’s back up a minute here. No free basic membership? What! How am I supposed to grief noobs?!? Noobs were a vital part of the existence. I don’t think There will be as much fun without noobs to bash around and harass. I demand that the investors comment on the noob issue!

    • #660 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.11 - 7:28 am

      There_Test_1, There_Test_2, etc, will be renamed There_Noob_1, There_Noob_2, etc for your benefit.

      • #661 by TgKhali on 2011.04.11 - 7:34 am

        There_Test_1, There_Test_2, etc, WILL be renamed There_Noob_1, There_Noob_2

        You say it as if There is coming back x]]
        Lmao seriously will you?

      • #662 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.11 - 7:41 am

        IF There came back, not only would I do that, I would let you be There_Test_0.

      • #663 by Brandyn_1 on 2011.04.11 - 8:32 am

        Hahaha!!! That is a great idea I’d really like to see that!!

  290. #664 by Stephkats on 2011.04.11 - 6:45 am

    Hello MW. I have a question.. I’m 23 years old, but I don’t have a credit card yet..Do you have another way to pay?.. I mean like before? paypal? or another way?

  291. #665 by mimi06 on 2011.04.11 - 6:34 am

    sorry for double post……..

  292. #666 by mimi06 on 2011.04.11 - 6:32 am

    e-mailing group_Ipanet members, in hopes to get the survey passed around our spanish speaking friends, as they were a very large part of the THERE community.

  293. #667 by KevinF on 2011.04.11 - 6:04 am

    I would also suggest free paintball, and cleaning up the paintball glitches –> The paintball community was by far larger than any other sports. I think it would be a great idea to prioritize this — seeing as your strategy should enforce ingame communities (thus making people routinely pay your monthly prices). Oh and also, obliterate the entire idea of selling tbux outside the game –> the recirculation of already existing game currency definitely took away significant cashflow, at least in my opinion

  294. #668 by KevinF on 2011.04.11 - 5:59 am

    Just a suggestion Michael, I think you lost a lot of very active members as a result of petty permanent bans (for swearing, cursing, greifing events, etc) Seeing as the world (if it opens) will be 18+, I would suggest you unban the less severe offences (starting off of a clean slate), allowing them to resume playing, while retaining the more severe (such as fraud, uploading pornographic content). GIVE PEOPLE A SECOND CHANCE DAMNIT.

    • #669 by MEOW on 2011.04.11 - 7:00 am


    • #670 by m on 2011.04.11 - 7:15 am


    • #671 by lool on 2011.04.11 - 7:41 am

      I agreee <33!

      • #672 by Lee C on 2011.04.11 - 11:46 am

        I agree too. I miss my banned friends. 😦

    • #673 by Jonathan on 2011.04.11 - 8:45 am

      Hate to say it, but I agree too!

    • #674 by ghdfh on 2011.04.11 - 11:40 am

      DO IT

    • #675 by vanitybeach/dollhousehorror/sheisty/dorothydean/truffleshuffle on 2011.04.11 - 12:04 pm

      WORD. As an upstanding virtual citizen of There1 who never once committed any of these offenses, I agree.

  295. #676 by PurpleMia on 2011.04.11 - 5:59 am

    Re previous posts ……………

    608 by Joeydantonio on 2011.04.10 – 10:15 pm

    I realize probably 90% of the emails people used when they registered with were fake, but this may be worth a shot..
    For more of a guarantee everyone is aware of this survey going around, and to get as much of an input as possible – have you considered sending a mass-message email out to the email addresses registered with each avatar? (kind of like a newsletter type of thing… or a ‘we would like your input” title.)

    Reply #609 by pHluid13 on 2011.04.11 – 4:37 am

    He has considered it. He doesn’t like to mass email/spam the users. Most emails being disconnected anyway. He answered this in a prior post. Just re-iterating for you

    …………….. in reply … please read this quote ………..

    #90 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.08 – 3:30 am

    We think six months will be the limit. At that point, we’ll mass-mail the Avatars who have not returned (many times) and, if they still do not, we will be releasing their names back into the system. None of that is firm yet, of course.

    …… Do they or do they not believe in “mass-mail” ????

    But that aside, I do hope There will re open and that we get our stuff back and it is much the same. No free newbies to help decide if they want to make There their home will be strange.

    Mia xx

    • #677 by pHluid13 on 2011.04.11 - 7:36 am

      OP was asking about mass emailing to take survey. MW is talking about after the possible re-opening of there only to those who haven’t re-logged in which would be a significantly smaller group of individuals. “Liking” and actually “doing” being two separate things. I think MW wants to minimize the amount of mass emails he has to send.

      At any rate, thanks for re-iterating. This small thread might answer some people’s questions if they were unclear. ‘tu

    • #678 by jimony on 2011.04.11 - 8:33 am

      I think a nicely written mass-email to all previously registered email addresses about the survey is the best way to assure the maximum amount of response to the survey itself. Just be sure to include an apology in the case the recipient of the email was not the person who registered the email address. One properly worded email surely won’t annoy many. One email from is all it should take for those excited about There to get them to the survey.

  296. #679 by Jennyw9wkids on 2011.04.11 - 5:38 am

    I SO HOPE THIS COMES TRUE! I just took the survey. Sportstar25 text me on Fri 4-8-11 tell let me know about this…but I was out of town and got back LATE last night. MW You would make ALOT of people happy if There reopened. 🙂

  297. #680 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.11 - 5:23 am

    It’s funny how ppl are already making demands. I for one am very excited about reopening THERE with no improvements or changes. It was fabulous they way it was. I like the stipend idea… even up to $100 per month to include real estate and an allowance maybe at a favorable rate for buying in advance. As far as justifying the THERE is not “raking in the dough” honestly most adult recognize that THERE is a business and needs to pay its bills. I feel its not necessary to appease folks that are not rational… and who seem to see conspiracies everywhere. I hope the new model can be profitable to Makena… as of course that’s the only reason they WOULD reopen THERE. I’m so happy to think about reopening Joy and Friends Loaners and Syn City again. THank you MW, please know many of us are behind your attempt and want to support it positively!

    • #681 by Wendy Stoll on 2011.04.11 - 12:03 pm

      ‘tu Joy!

  298. #682 by MEOW on 2011.04.11 - 5:01 am

    This is what i’ve been staring at for the past miserable year of my life.

    • #683 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.04.11 - 2:29 pm

      MEOW…that is sooo sweet….. me too. I have permenantly in my google search: THERE.COM REOPENING. I wistfully have been searching that every month…dutifully as if by sheer will or karma “something” might pop up AND IT DID!

      Let’s all of us try to spread the word to our connections and leave MW to deal with the realities at hand. BOTTOM LINE is: can they make enough money to pay their bills (and God forbid make a profit?). I know I didn;t go to work everyday NOT to make money… let’s support MW and Makena to make a profit so our dream can come true….. THERE.COM DOES REOPEN!!

      Blessings and I promise I won;t ban anyone for taking 20 vehicles from my Loaner. sniff, I even miss the griefing…

  299. #684 by George on 2011.04.11 - 4:57 am

    MW, you seemed to have overlook my previous question. Would you accept a fee of 100USD+ to have banned members accounts reopened?

    • #685 by Michael Wilson on 2011.04.11 - 6:31 am

      I’m not going to answer that at this time. If you read the survey carefully, the list of people who would not be welcome is pretty specific.