Almost Perfect…

Here’s where we are today:

  • Support for T$ purchases is re-animated and working in QA. Expect it to be deployed soon. Only PayPal is supported at this time.
  • Support for Subscriptions (a pre-requisite for opening) is done, and checked into QA. Not fully tested yet. Only PayPal is supported at this time.
  • Flash 11.1 put the support back in for “transparency” in Flash, which is the “real” fix for “the dreaded black bar”. We’ll be removing our little fix for the “Black Bar” at some point in the future, once we think most people have Flash 11.1
  • We’ve added support to add certain…penalties, let’s say…for excessive AFK. Once we roll this out, the penalty will be forced logoff, at least.
  • Work has started on the “Migrate possessions from my Alt” app and good progress has been made.

So we’re getting close. We’re actually hoping we might be in the Black in December.

We’re not going to announce an opening date. This is not only because I know better than to announce dates, but also to minimize the chances of everyone rushing it at once and making a mess of things. One day, we’ll just be open for everyone.

We’re not giving any “Grace Period” or anything like that for Alts to log in and transfer inventory. The “Migrate possessions from my Alt” tool will solve the need for this. Not to put too fine a point on it, but that decision is Final.

Keep sending those reports of suspected underage folks in. We’re dealing with them swiftly, and, of course, if you’re not underage, you have nothing to worry about.

That’s all for now. Getting close now…

  1. #1 by Rick on 2011.11.30 - 6:02 pm

    Mr wilson, i need a reply sooo i have my avatar right, and i reclaimed one of my alts possessions already to it, but heres a prob one of my alts got banned for me letting a “banned” friend log onto it, however ive spent alot of money on it and have alot and most of my clothinng and Etc in it, would i be able to at least get my inventory and change me from it back to my account? i have already re registered it so i cant reclaim the inventory.. i really hope you can do something about this i have all my possetions on that account. the name is xeruptive.

  2. #2 by Joe_R203 on 2011.11.30 - 1:40 pm

    QUESTION ABOUT PAZ RENT and Tbux: I thought I read in one of the earlier blogs that when we were able to log back in, that all Tbux you had when There shut down, would be in your inventory, and any rents you paid before shutdown, would still be present. Before There closed, I figured I’d spend the Tbux on the PAZ rent since I obviously couldn’t resell my Bux and wasn’t going to buy anything with them. So before There closed down I spent all my Bux on rent and I believe I was good for something like 75-100 days. Maybe more. My memory isn’t the best but I know it was up there. Now when I put out some Zones, they began with 30 days. Am I screwed out of the rent I paid before There shut down?

  3. #3 by 1969Craven on 2011.11.30 - 2:13 am

    Last night lag and rubber-banding was unbearable for everyone on. don’t know if changes were being made, or a problem with the servers.

  4. #4 by freecreed on 2011.11.29 - 6:32 pm

    ouch … whatever server work was done sure screwed up the hoverbike .. rubberband to eveyone at the track

  5. #5 by Daniel Thereian on 2011.11.29 - 5:09 pm

    MW I’m under 18 , but can i log in central?

    • #6 by JasonMK on 2011.11.30 - 10:00 am

      You would need an avatar account, so if I follow the logic (and rules) the answer would be no (until you turn 18, then the answer would become yes with a PayPal account).

  6. #7 by GreenAngel on 2011.11.29 - 8:39 am

    Hi everyone, SpaceSerenity is up and running for Thereians to visit, just contact GreenAngel. What is the link to report underage avies? ty

    • #8 by YankeeintheSouth on 2011.11.29 - 2:52 pm

      Definetly a must see….beautiful!!

      • #9 by Christy Clendenen on 2011.11.30 - 5:16 am

        I heard a rumor ( among the 100’s that are going about) that There will be “closing” space when we officially open??


      • #10 by Michael Wilson on 2011.11.30 - 10:16 am

        No, we’re not closing space. Sheesh.

      • #11 by daniel on 2011.11.30 - 12:59 pm

        may i be informed on what space is (question mark)

    • #12 by ant1977 on 2011.11.30 - 12:19 am

      I don’t know of any links for reporting but the e-mail to send reports to is Can’t wait to find time to visit SpaceSerenity again. Congratulations :o)

  7. #13 by JonmiChel There on 2011.11.29 - 4:59 am

    Greetings.. I’m having trouble downloading the last update… it tells me “Download Failed: Transfer Error: read 0 bytes, wrote 0 bytes in 0 loops, readErr: 12002, writeErr:0 ” That’s it. Any clue?

    • #14 by Rick on 2011.11.29 - 8:14 pm

      Just re dl the client from the website

  8. #15 by Minai on 2011.11.29 - 2:32 am

    Logged in for about an hour earlier. Wow, it sure does bring back memories. Spent that time going through my inventory, and tossing unwanted items to someone who decided to tag along for the ride.

    I have too much stuff!

    Hope to see some of my old friends soon πŸ™‚

  9. #16 by Therian on 2011.11.28 - 7:32 pm

    Any possibility on the accounts closed for unauthorized purchases being unlocked?

  10. #17 by Juli on 2011.11.28 - 6:02 pm

    I have had NO problems using There. This morning all was wonderful! When I logged in 6 hours later in the afternoon I was excited to see my reclaimed possessions had arrived from Alternate Avatars! I decided to put out a portazone and play! When I tried to position my avatar to place the portzone it started twitching and rubberbanding. I have had NO problems BEFORE receiving the reclaimed possessions.

    I logged out and back in and the avatar was still rubberbanding and I could not teleport or take out any vehicles. Logged out and back in to a slow login with a black screen and then a view of some messed up mountains and no avatar! I can go everywhere on the internet with no issues. Cleared the cache did a restart and all else seems well except getting into There!

    I sent in a report to feedback and I am waiting for a reply. Has anyone else had a problem since your reclaimed possessions showed up? Should I remove There and Reinstall?

    • #18 by CardSharkRay on 2011.11.28 - 7:05 pm

      the server is down when ya get the mountains and sky

    • #19 by fulkenstien on 2011.11.29 - 8:33 am

      same thing happened to me but it stopped after awhile.i could login with my other alts but fulkenstien was messed up so i think an avman was down but the avman staus page had some error on it and i couldnt view the page.i check using another computer and same thing.
      no need to reinstall cleared up and my avatar and client was back to normal about 30 menutes later.

  11. #20 by SNIPERBAIT on THERE on 2011.11.28 - 5:20 pm

    i have been noticing as others that have been flying around with me that there seems to be a “paintball issue”. I can literally be walking and it will say, “Paintballing Aloud”. A couple steps further and it says no paintballing aloud. Even when i am at the spot that says its ok, if I try to pull out a paintgun it will not allow me. Dune Valley of course gives a message that all is aloud. Even in our portazones we cannot paintball anymore. We used to be able to pull out guns and drop them for others and that is not working. I am hoping this is just a temporary thing and not some new setup where it is restricted in most places. Sorta the reason I and my friends were attracted to THERE. Thanks for any info on this MW.
    On other note: If the hope is that when the developers relogin and submit there items we will regain them.. then does that mean that THERE is going to resubmit it’s products? Me and some others are missing our engine upgrades and some other THERE stuff is why I am asking.

    QUOTE: never have thanksgiving unless you have already been by U-Haul and rented a hand truck to carry you back out to your car. The alternative is being rolled and that never ends well…

  12. #21 by fulkenstien on 2011.11.28 - 5:11 pm

    ok i need to know about reclaiming inventory from alts.i thought MW said that when you reclaim inventory from and alt level up gifts and stuff like that wouldnt be retrieaved.
    well i had two alts that i was wondering about one of the two i paid for and the other was a freeby.i didnt know which so i tried both.i got the inventory from both level up gifts and all.
    was this spoose to happen?

    • #22 by fulkenstien on 2011.11.28 - 5:18 pm

      well i didnt get all the stuff but i got a pretty good amount of it.

  13. #23 by Joe_R203 on 2011.11.28 - 3:21 pm

    GRRrrrrr! Why do the coupes/TUVs/SUVs and muscle cars still drift to the East?

    • #24 by Snacks on 2011.11.29 - 7:49 pm

      I know! I Know! And I can’t begin to say how happy I am that the wind from the west still blows.

      • #25 by Joe_R203 on 2011.11.30 - 12:33 pm

        I’m not a perfectionist but I do like things to look neat and presentable. I don’t have enough vehicle barriers in my garages to keep my cars from humping each other. I know that now, while There is being tweaked and bugs are being fixed, that vehicles get returned to inventory when left out, But when we’re fully open, I’d like to leave all my vehicles out, neatly parked in my garages. It’s annoying to log on and see them sticking thru the walls/doors because they “drift”. Of course, they’d look a LOT nicer if they had the paint jobs and wheels I bought for them. Still don’t know why those items weren’t restored to my inventory. 😦

  14. #26 by I Play There on 2011.11.28 - 1:16 pm

    Is it true that the 365 day ban notices aren’t real? Will accounts be reopened sooner if it was closed ONLY for unauthorized purchases?

  15. #28 by William on 2011.11.28 - 7:35 am

    there used to be a way you could see zone boundaries as bright pink, yellow, and green lines – anyone remember how to do this?

    would love to know the shortcut again!


  16. #34 by Hugsie on 2011.11.28 - 1:06 am

    Sigh….15min timeouts is B.S.

    • #35 by Roxannie on 2011.11.28 - 7:52 am

      it’s not b.s. if it keeps there affordable and open, just log back in, it’s getting easier and easier to get in, just sayin

    • #36 by Achenar on 2011.11.28 - 11:35 am

      Sighs…….shakes head………sighs again!

  17. #37 by Innie on 2011.11.27 - 7:21 pm

    I thought you guys were getting rid of the weird giant heads and giant eye hack? Because……..they’re back. o.O

    • #38 by Hugsie on 2011.11.28 - 1:07 am

      no they aren’t allowing any MORE corrupted avatar shapes. You can’t save them anymore. If you already have one before the shutdown, you still can use it. Just can’t create new ones anymore.

  18. #39 by Scrooge on 2011.11.27 - 5:54 pm

    Logged in and had a look around. It was so nice to roam around. Lots more people on now than when I last visited. Look forward to opening day very much. Thanks Team Phoenix. I wanted to point out that I didn’t see any There Testers. Are they out there anywhere? I miss giving them ‘tours’ across There.

  19. #41 by DJHussey on 2011.11.27 - 5:31 pm

    Myself and a few others have noticed that while PBing and even just socializing, that the avatars rubberband. I thought with these new “cloud” servers the lag would be much better than before.. But it’s shown to be much worse. I’m not sure many people who enjoy shooting in There will continue playing if the servers will continue to be like this. I’m just curious if this is a temporary thing or if it’ll be like this forever?

    • #42 by Michael Wilson on 2011.11.27 - 5:47 pm

      “Rubber Banding” isn’t driven by the servers speed (and, BTW, our servers are barely being utilized), it’s driven by whether or not you and the server can communicate well about your position, and your clients ability to keep up with position updates.

      If you turn on the “performance monitor” (Ctrl-option-P) the bottom graph will show packet loss as red lines, also the top graph shows bandwidth consumption (more green = more bandwidth being consumed to download textures, play shoutcast, etc).

      • #43 by DJHussey on 2011.11.27 - 5:51 pm

        Alright, was just curious because I don’t remember There being this “glitchy” with rubberbanding and I’ve heard from MANY people complaining about it while PBing. But thanks for your response πŸ˜€

      • #44 by toufovou on 2011.11.27 - 11:20 pm

        I have rubberbanding issues sometimes, but there is no red on my packetloss graph. It actually, happens when the bandwidth consumption graph is on full. Does ‘There’ have a limit to bandwidth consumption? If so would it be possible to raise it? Perhaps it would be a good idea (if possible of course) later on to give us the option to choose ourselves how much of our bandwidth ‘There’ can consume.

    • #45 by Roxannie on 2011.11.28 - 8:02 am

      only problem i got with PBing, is ya can’t hardly do it anywhere, can’t do it by any of my rentals, sort of sucky lol, but the rubber banding hardly ever happens, it use to happen a lot with my old crappy pc, but even when people are whining about lag, i have none πŸ˜€ knock on wood lol

      lets have the wild west, turn on pbing everywhere hhahahahahahaha, after all your ff protects you if ya don’t want shot πŸ™‚

    • #46 by ARTIE on 2011.11.28 - 8:47 am

      Don’t forget to check your firewall and modem. The only time I get RB & LAG is when my local cable company messes with my bandwidth.

    • #47 by David H on 2011.11.28 - 2:22 pm

      I’ve found a possible bug in that when using the client for a while, if I go to a location with lots of content, I will continually rubber band until I log out, then I log in and I see all this stuff that appears which is what I was rubber banding on.

  20. #48 by Mr_Perry on 2011.11.27 - 12:23 pm

    It is really a shame that SOME of us will never get into until it becomes a pay service
    something is defitily fishy…how can the world be “closed” one sec and “full” the next? there was less than 1/2 a sec
    between log in clicks..with all due respect, your servers are not that fast cloud or no cloud.

    • #49 by Michael Wilson on 2011.11.27 - 1:23 pm

      Well, if you think things are “defitily fishy” now with the level of transparency and communication we’ve offered up to now, I can only imagine the conspiracies that will be uncovered once we’re open. They’ll probably do a whole season of Fringe on us.

    • #50 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.11.27 - 2:10 pm

      I got a good response to this one lol. The “closed” message you’re getting is their default message for those not allowed in, as it is closed for you. You only get that message if there is an open spot on your particular avman, otherwise you’ll get the world is full message. Every time you get “closed” if you had access like gold or platinum you’d be getting in that click. From what I’ve heard so far, the servers are pretty fast as far as loading, but we’ll see when we get in too. As for as it being a shame us silver and below not getting in till we pay, let’s see their logic on that choice not even touching the reasoning behind needing the more active users in to get in some good testing. Well for one silver passes and below likely didn’t spend much if any money for those accounts which There had to pay for you to be on the server. There is bound to be tons of silver passes and below that could have been reclaimed belonging to griefers. Why would he have risked letting a majority of them in to grief and ruin the testing? Only gold and above are in, well they paid the 9.95 for premium that I sadly never got around to paying. So I guess they did get a last benefit for that 9.95 that no longer matters now cause we’re all premium. That benefit was they got to get in early. Sounds about right to me. This is coming from a silver pass who has to wait with you till we pay to get in.

      • #51 by Mr_Perry on 2011.11.29 - 1:10 pm

        at least andrew gave me a reasonable answer.
        really expected better from you MW
        sarcasam really does not become you.

    • #52 by thereuser on 2011.11.27 - 6:21 pm

      Your “Funpass” is not high enough to have you enabled for beta testing, therefore it won’t let you in. The service is only really closed around 3:00-4:00am PST.

    • #53 by Scrooge on 2011.11.28 - 8:02 am

      I know why it is fishy. Because the New World Order lizards(who live in earths core) are behind this. Their aim is to get you so angry and mad that you blame politics and forget about them and their unholy war of evil. And they are winning!

      (This isn’t actually what Scrooge believes)

    • #54 by Roxannie on 2011.11.28 - 8:06 am

      only thing fishy going on is the silly rental fish picture and my gold fish head lol

      if they let everyone in at once it would take them forever to get it reopen

  21. #55 by martin71a on 2011.11.27 - 12:01 pm

    i have been trying for 2 days now to get my alt avi`s things and i dont remember his password or the email so i went to do the Secret Question it says i dont have one what else can i do MW or the team???

    • #56 by Juli on 2011.11.27 - 12:40 pm

      When reclaiming one of my alts things its says wrong password, but I know its the right one, I dont have a secret question either and the account email is nonactive. So do we wait and resurrect the account and then get new password? I can make an active email for account. Yea what do we do?

  22. #57 by migman on 2011.11.27 - 11:45 am

    Still have the vanishing quest clues,take a clue out from the kit and it vanishes ,does not go back to inventory.I dont know if everyone has the problem.(the ones that actually make quest)

    • #58 by devonette on 2011.11.27 - 3:42 pm

      migman, I currently have a 10 bottle quest set out. For the first 3 days it worked fine, then bottle #8 vanished. Every time I would retrieve and set that bottle out again, it did exactly what you are saying yours does. After the Thanksgiving update, the bottle reappeared, and I haven’t had any further problems with it. I know bikerbich was having issues with her invisible quest kit with her clue #7 on New Kansas disappearing, but once she relocated it to a different island it seems to be working fine as well. No clue why they do this, or if this will be an ongoing issue, but so far so good, and responses from questers have been favorable, even with the problems. Have you tried using a different quest kit, or a different location? Don’t give up on it yet!

      • #59 by migman on 2011.11.28 - 8:51 am

        Yes i have 4 quest kits and they all do the same thing.

      • #60 by devonette on 2011.11.29 - 10:49 am

        Ah, well. I knew it was too good to last. My clue #8 has disappeared again. I had thought about pulling out my other bottle quest kit and using that to finish the last three clues, but then I noticed it had been replaced by a 24 hour bottle kit, rather than the 7 day kit it had been originally. Well, that’s not gonna work! Oh well!

  23. #61 by Reo on 2011.11.26 - 7:40 pm

    There’s a difference between being AFK and being idle. I like to hang out in one spot doing nothing. I’d probably be flagged as abusing AFK by any system designed to do so. But I am most assuredly at my keyboard, enjoying my time in There just hanging out.

    • #62 by Reo on 2011.11.26 - 7:46 pm

      I should point out though that I’m making a point not to do this now, while there’s a login limit.

    • #63 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.11.27 - 6:50 am

      If you’re standing still at your keyboard all you have to do is hit you space key every few minutes or click a window within There such as your inventory every few minutes and you will not go idle and won’t be booted.

    • #64 by Sputters on 2011.11.30 - 4:03 pm

      If you’re standing there doing nothing…. Why are you even online? Stop consuming space, and let other players get online.

  24. #65 by RRTT on 2011.11.26 - 2:28 pm

    The Claim Possessions for alts is now available on your profile pages.

    • #66 by AgapeLove on 2011.11.27 - 5:18 am

      If I claim possessions from an alt now as I can’t aford to get them on now, can I get them at another time or will they be distroyed? And I understand that we can’t claim possessions more than once from an alt. I figure if I get them on when I’m doing better financially and give them something , they can give it back in person before their month runs out.

      • #67 by AgapeLove on 2011.11.27 - 5:22 am

        Sorry couldn’t find the editing option, what I’m asking if we can get an alt on at a later time even though we took all their stuff. Or does doing the claim possessions thing “kill” that alt?

    • #68 by Kayleigh Lace on 2011.11.29 - 2:51 am

      Three cheers for remembering the information of my alt.. hehe

      Thanks for this notification πŸ™‚

  25. #69 by justagreatguy on 2011.11.26 - 2:10 pm

    Mr. Wilson I still have the portazone I tried out from the shop in my inventory, I can’t send it back and it wont leave. When i click on about I get this message

    (An internal error has occurred
    Failed to retrieve information about this item
    Please contact There technical support regarding this message.
    Pob lookup for Doid 16272899 failed: One or more elements missing in result XML from PobMan getpob service)

  26. #70 by Bethany on 2011.11.26 - 10:16 am

    Sounds like you guys are doing good! Cheers! πŸ™‚

  27. #71 by xSnoopy on 2011.11.26 - 8:52 am

    To Team Phoenix,

    This is as delicately as I can put this:

    YOU ALL KICK ASS!!!!, Ya Michael, even you πŸ™‚

    I can’t imagine the amount of effort you guys have put into the resurrection of THERE.

    This time I will speak for my fellow Thereians, when I say:

    THANK YOU, from ALL of us !!

    Hope all you guys had a great Thanksgiving and Happy Holidays!

  28. #72 by Joe_R203 on 2011.11.26 - 7:34 am

    Just wondering if certain inventory items are being delayed. I have most of my stuff except for a Teddybear costume and an electric guitar that can be held on my avatar. I could live without those but what I really want are the wheels and paint jobs I bought for my coupes and SUV. The only paint job that showed up in my inventory was for the Scion concept car. The custom wheels I bought for that car are also missing.

  29. #73 by Christy Clendenen on 2011.11.25 - 1:07 pm

    Just wanted to say THANKS for the new AFK kicker ( 20 mins on afk limit ) I have not ,nor have my friends has any problems getting in world. THANK YOU!!!

  30. #74 by Roxannie on 2011.11.25 - 9:23 am

    i saw one of them pickles on a rope bridge blocking the bridge, can’t even drive around it, how annoying, still griefers i see, very sad

    i am also wondering what these “yard sale” people selling their way over priced things are going to do with their tbucks they are use to selling to others are going to do with their tbucks now, just hoping it’s easy to check large gifts of tbucks and large amounts in trades to make sure these people aren’t cheating the system, i really don’t want there to close again because of slick jerks breaking the rules

    i also wish you could put a link in an auction when the item is in shop to the shop item, shocking to see a christmas tree that costs 1500 tbucks that is in auctions for 6500, when new people can join this so rips them off and also rips off the people that aren’t very good at looking things up yet, rant rant rant!!!!

    anyway i been having so much fun being back in there, i am already losing track of time and realizing it’s way past my bedtime before i know it, I sincerely thank MW, SAMSYN (the gnome burner rofl) and the rest of the phoenix team, thank you so much

    • #75 by thereuser on 2011.11.25 - 12:18 pm

      They have no collisions, drive through it. πŸ˜‰

      • #76 by Roxannie on 2011.11.26 - 8:26 am

        why should i have to drive through it? why does it have to be there? did you put it there? it’s rude and not needed on bridges, and it’s griefing and i tried to drive through it and i fell of the bridge, keep your pickles in the jar rofl rofl

      • #77 by Sputters on 2011.11.30 - 4:08 pm

        It’s not griefing. Seeing as ALL PAZ’s will be picked up when the world is completely open. Also, if it were griefing, then why would you be allowed to drop your PAZ there?

    • #78 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.11.25 - 12:38 pm

      Yeah I had a lil over 500 tbux and wanted to blow them on something other than a drink so I found a pair of cheap cuban shoes for 400. Not until after the purchase was made did it then show me the catalog listing price of 2500. I’m seeing items in auction ranging from 400 tbux to 1 million tbux.

  31. #79 by xSnoopy on 2011.11.24 - 7:48 pm

    After your comment, I should have seen it coming!
    Nice update,
    Long overdue!!
    That’s why I don’t do vow’s, you can’t be trusted πŸ™‚

  32. #80 by MattDillon2005 on 2011.11.24 - 8:11 am

    I have no problem paying the monthly fee for all my avatars,I just want to rebuild my mauve maple forrest in a 3 acre paz,with a giant rainbow pickle in the center of 140 mauve maples,but I need to stack two paz’ to do it,if that bug is removed then ‘cest la vie.

  33. #81 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.11.24 - 6:47 am

    Happy Gobble Gobble Day to Team Phoenix and all the Thereians.

  34. #82 by Cellophane Thereian on 2011.11.24 - 6:10 am

    Sharing again, as we move closer… πŸ™‚

  35. #83 by mimi06 on 2011.11.24 - 4:49 am

    Have a safe and wonderful Thanksgiving and THANK you for giving us THERE!

  36. #84 by freecreed on 2011.11.24 - 12:59 am

    Do I get gravy on my Thanksgiving day update ?

  37. #85 by Babs There on 2011.11.23 - 6:51 pm

    Thanks! ”yay for close!

    πŸ™‚ Happy Thanksgiving Therians! ‘hug

  38. #86 by YankeeintheSouth on 2011.11.23 - 4:21 pm

    Have a happy and safe Thanksgiving to MW, his crew and all Thereians!! πŸ™‚

  39. #87 by deadlycooler on 2011.11.23 - 3:36 pm

    Any discount for disabled members?

    • #88 by Kayleigh Lace on 2011.11.23 - 9:07 pm

      You would have a REALLY hard time having that implemented – and proving that, IMO… A huge can of expensive worms that I’m sure they can’t consider right now.

    • #89 by William on 2011.11.25 - 8:05 am

      why should there be?

  40. #90 by Andrew Harris on 2011.11.23 - 2:24 pm

    MW – what is this picture? Looks like some sort of drink with.. mint leaves?

  41. #91 by timcraven on 2011.11.23 - 2:19 pm

    a little help would be great MW would show that u actualy care about the bugs that came up if u tryed to help. I HAVE BEEN HAVING THIS NO AVIE PROBLEM FOR DAYS. BUT I GUESS UR THINKING OH IF I JUST IGNORE IT NOONE WILL NOTICE
    if u want to help me that be great but if u dont then i guess i will have to find a way to fix the error thats in your game as there is nothing wrong with my pc.

    • #92 by Andy on 2011.11.24 - 6:33 am

      There might be nothin wrong with your PC timcraven but your attitude sux big time.How about showing some respect for these guys for doing something that they sure as heck didnt have to do. Maybe just maybe they are all a lil busy workin on the world getting it ready to be opened…..why not try asking for help in the There Facebook groups where ppl have more time to reply to you or you could also try the Thumdar forums too

    • #93 by ImageMaker on 2011.11.24 - 7:17 am

      The first thing to try for “no avie” or related rendering problems is to use ThereTweaker to change your rendering — if you’re on DX8, try DX9, or vice versa, or try OpenGL. Yeah, you’ll have to actually get logged into the world to actually test whether that helps, but it’s something you won’t have to do frequently (usually only once or twice to find the right setting for your particular hardware/software combination). I have to use DX8, DX9 is too slow on my graphics hardware, but lots of folks can’t use DX8 because it renders their avie incorrectly or not at all.

    • #94 by xSnoopy on 2011.11.24 - 9:53 am

      Please address your problems to:

      As a GP3D, I have sent in many bug reports and I never expect an answer. I know all of them are REALLY busy right now.
      Several of them have been addressed which proves that they are reading our bug reports.

  42. #95 by xSnoopy on 2011.11.23 - 9:45 am

    Today would be a fantastic day to double (or more) the allowed number of avies into game.
    Even better would be to open the doors to all the Legacy avies!
    What a great Thanksgiving gift that would be!!
    Come on Mr. Wilson, Make our day!! πŸ™‚

    • #96 by Michael Wilson on 2011.11.23 - 10:40 am

      Not Happening. BUT, you could vow to not log in again until we open to make room for one more. How about that?

      • #97 by Achenar on 2011.11.23 - 11:09 am

        You’re a genius Mr. W! πŸ™‚

      • #98 by xSnoopy on 2011.11.23 - 1:01 pm

        Hmmm, interesting proposition .. How long will I have to abstain?
        Not sure if I will be able to keep my promise.
        If I can’t, I suppose you will send me to the back of the line, or even worse??

      • #99 by IMAKOS on 2011.11.27 - 5:42 am

        Take the even worse suggestion.. Make XSnoopy a Pink Squid in game and BOX his avie on the pole at the top of the HUT in Zypher until opening day.

        Oh and leave his ForceField
        Happy Holidays


        LEI ( IMAKOS)

        Hugs XSNOOPY

    • #100 by HiddenTalent on 2011.11.23 - 2:35 pm

      should log people out when they are idling, most people login and be afk for hours and hours

  43. #101 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.11.23 - 8:42 am

    MW I remember reading somewhere that it said we will no longer have an email invite thing for new users. Is it possible we can still have this but just change the message the email sends them to reflect the new pay service that way when they join through our referral link they automatically get put in our friend’s list? The link still currently has the “Membership is free” message at the moment

  44. #102 by Alter on 2011.11.23 - 6:23 am

    Mr Wilson..
    I would like to know whats going to happen if us funzone owners who have opened their funzones early for others to enjoy, and don’t have enough TBucks to pay the rent since ThereBank isn’t open yet. Some of us might be going into dire straits cause we don’t have enough T’s to pay the rent, afraid to get T’s from another source cause we don’t really wanna get banned for 3rd party buying/trading of T’s. The old when you didn’t pay the rent the zone went into auctions and if that happens cause ThereBank isn’t open would really suck.
    A reply to calm some avie nerves would be nice or a reassurance that our zone wouldn’t go up for auctions incase we can’t muster up the T’s to pay the rent in this beta stage of the game.

    Thank You
    Owner of the SleepyK Funzone

  45. #103 by justagreatguy on 2011.11.22 - 11:57 pm

    I’m looking for a few big strong guys like say Mr. Wilson and like SamSyn. I have this portazone that I do not want and I need it hauled away and you will need some kind of big truck to move it. See I tried this Portazone out from the shop 2 days ago and it stayed where I dropped it and it won’t leave. I tried to return it, put it away but nothing works. It counting down the 30 days of time that no one put on it. It says it belongs to me but I never paid for it. So please bring your big truck over and haul it away!

  46. #105 by Flygirl_Dani on 2011.11.22 - 8:08 pm

    Hooray sounds wonderful about the flash issue.. !! And the opening soon… πŸ˜€ keep up the good work..

    Quick question will the AFK rule be set for opening as well or just during the beta phase??

    I ask because sometimes I get to designing and such and I get called away .. and its nice to have the option to go back and pick it back up again without having to worry about getting logged out.. I guess I will deal with it either way .. Just curious.. LOL


  47. #106 by phasedenergy on 2011.11.22 - 5:25 pm

    With the exception of one day where I actually managed to login, “the world is full” is now the main banner for My login attempts….I think it is probably best to wait until the client is fully operational and fully open, then decide what to do with main account, alts etc (besides, this close to family members that could use the money more)……if anyone is looking for me (try not to follow the cloud of`s just a reaction….lol), I will most likely be building an online life in herocraft.

    Take care all, enjoy the grand reopening, and I hope to come back without discouragement (maybe My account will be “high enough status” to actually get in and then I can visit) some point.

    • #107 by Puddlefish on 2011.11.23 - 6:06 am

      I’ve tried to look at it a different way. I was able to get in pretty regularly up until last week. I had a blast while I was in, but I don’t really tax the servers all that much with my virtual living habits. I love designing, and submitting new things for the catalog, but all of that is basically done offline. The way I see it, the people who are camped in-world now are the ones who probably tax the system the most with elaborate paz-building and large inventories, etc…. so they are providing the guys with much better testing than I would. So I am staying positive about it. Can’t wait till things are fully open. This is exciting!

  48. #108 by YankeeintheSouth on 2011.11.22 - 11:44 am

    I’m really starting to feel what you go through M.W. Opening the bank sooner would be nice…so many coming at me about t-bucks…. Please save me! haha

    • #109 by Michael Wilson on 2011.11.22 - 1:01 pm

      “It’s nnootttt faaairrrr yoooouuuu wooonntttt GIVE MEEEEE SOOOMEEEEEEEEEEE!”.

      • #110 by YankeeintheSouth on 2011.11.22 - 2:21 pm

        Oh, that was helpful! hahaha πŸ˜›

      • #111 by sue_g on 2011.11.22 - 4:06 pm

        LMAO! πŸ™‚

        But I sooo agree! πŸ™‚

      • #112 by mimi06 on 2011.11.23 - 2:03 am

        oh my! cheese or wine? rofl BUT WHY CANT IT BE FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

      • #113 by YankeeintheSouth on 2011.11.23 - 3:59 pm

        ‘tu Mimi…Happy Thanksgiving πŸ˜›

  49. #114 by ARTIE on 2011.11.22 - 8:50 am

    I hope serious attention is being paid to allowing us to have multiple avatars at a reasonable rate. Today (Tuesday) I was playing cards in a There house and the server supporting the house and/or area crashed. The 4 avatars we had playing cards could not log back in because the area in MotuMotu did not repair. However, I could easily log in other alternate Avatars that whould populate in other areas. This was one of my main reasons for having multiple avatars in the past, so I could get in when my main avatar was trying to load in a crashed area. With only one avatar, that option will no longer be available.

    Having multiple avatars can help me know if the WHOLE WORLD crashed, or just an area or Avaman server. Currently my ALT is tumbeling down Mt.Neverest from Avie Sacrifice until my main avatar can get back in to try and finish the game of cards.

  50. #115 by timcraven on 2011.11.22 - 7:11 am

    every time i try to log in as world is loading all i ever get is a screen full of mountains and water there is no avie and no menus tryed uninstaling and reinstalling but still get the same. has anyone had the same problem and if so how can i sort it as it was working fine a few days ago.

    • #116 by timcraven on 2011.11.22 - 2:57 pm

      mw a little help with my problem would be great. I tried emailing the feedback email address but it always come back as undeliverd so please help me to sort out my problem

    • #117 by Akejok on 2011.11.23 - 5:50 pm

      This used to happen to me all the time! It is because of your firewall, which would be blocking your access to There. Try running There as an Administrator, and see if that helps you out.

  51. #118 by pcdoctor on 2011.11.22 - 7:02 am

    I would like to know, before you open the world to where everyone has to start paying, do you intend to remove the login limit to see how the servers peform with a lot of avatars online? This might be a test you will want to consider doing before fully opening up. With the way it is, I’ve noticed lots of server crossings in various areas throughout the world and I fear that it will be a lot worse when there’s even more avatars in world. Also with no hoods in world, I also think the number of server crossings I’ve run into is bad as well.

    • #119 by Michael Wilson on 2011.11.22 - 7:22 am

      No, we won’t be doing that.

      • #120 by ARTIE on 2011.11.22 - 8:36 am

        Actually, now the slightly reverse question begs to be asked. After we start paying will there still be a limit on the number of avatars in the world? I have not yet been able to finish a game of spades without something going wrong and I have to log off only to get the message, “Sorry we cannot let you back in because the world is full.”

  52. #121 by Rick on 2011.11.21 - 10:40 pm

    Will the dev Page be restored before the world reopens?

  53. #123 by Snacks on 2011.11.21 - 8:59 pm

    I have fond memories of There tricks and physics.

    Soon after I joined in the summer of 2003 I found a place where it was pretty common to be
    pelted by paintballs that originated from under a rock. Some times were easier than others for
    examining that rock up close, depending on how many shooters were inside, but I just couldn’t
    figure it out even after hours of trying. Still, my curiosity would not let me give up. So one
    night I finally saw someone approaching the rock on a hoverpack… slowing… hovering right in
    front of it… and then disappearing into the rock with the hoverpack remaining outside for a
    moment, and then also disappearing.

    It was as if someone turned on a light. “Got it!” I said to myself. “The dismount from the
    hoverpack doesn’t care about objects in the way! Let’s go in with guns blazing!” But because my
    greeting from the folks inside the rock was so quickly warm and friendly, I disarmed without
    firing a single shot. A few of the oldest friendships I have in There were made that night. And
    afterwards hoverpack dismounts got me into a lot of places that were otherwise impossible to
    get into. Very cool. I loved teaching that trick to newcomers to There.

    I figured out the next thing on my own once I saw it was possible. It was a guy inside of a
    tree in a place where vehicles were not allowed. “Ok, the jump off hoverpack trick won’t work
    here. What then?” By this time I was all over the various files in all of the various
    directories. I had noticed something about the last teleport destination… there was something
    about go to last location… Bingo! Edit the coordinates and there you go to anywhere.

    Not long after I learned about the URL method of going anywhere in the world. Woohoo!

    I wonder if anyone remembers the physics thing I did at this point. I noticed that if you fall
    from a high altitude you do not fall straight down towards the center of the There planet. You
    fall at different angles from different places. I mapped this odd effect from many places and
    found an apperant “wind” from the west to the east that influenced this falling in world
    behavior. I was able to do this by being able to teleport to arbitrary locations and altitudes
    on the globe. I hadn’t quite completed my study when this trick was disabled. Sad.

    I hated the idea of PAZ’s at first, and joined with a lot of folks that criticized them sharply
    in the forums. It seemed to me that I should be able to drop a bench and table, a laptop
    computer, a pizza and a beer (BTLPB) pretty much anywhere I wanted at no additional cost. I
    quietly got over that, and then became fascinated with puzzles like skypaz’s, paz on top of paz
    drops, paz by paz joins, and of course the put-back trick for both low distance legimate things
    as well as long distance projectons (for me, to place a chair that I could sit on for a brief
    time in a place that I didn’t belong was a very fun thing to do).

    It was a very large amount of fun for me to play around and figure out how to do these things.
    Around the time There closed, I was figuring out how to edit the files in gk_layouts to do
    intersting things in PAZ’s. Funny thing… now that I am back in world, after checking
    inventory and re-learning how to move in world, I am picking up where I left off with that

    On the night when There died my sadness was lessened by all of the folks that chose to die in a
    place that I had made. I am a clown, and my chief motivation in There has always been to make
    places that make people smile. It was enormously gratifying that so many folks chose to spend
    their last There moments with me and each other in my last place built largely of tricks and

    Welcome back, It’s an important thing that you are doing for a lot of people, and I
    sincerely hope that you are successful.

    All best wishes,

    • #124 by sue_g on 2011.11.22 - 3:29 am

      Hi Snacks!

      Hope to see you soon πŸ™‚ I always loved your paz setups.


    • #125 by mystic1there on 2011.11.22 - 8:40 am

      Hiya Snacks. Of course I remember your Wind experiments πŸ™‚ Charting the unknown vastness of There’s world and physics was great fun.

      See you around There!


    • #126 by alexandria3178 on 2011.11.22 - 2:26 pm

      I would be interested to know the teleport file location.

    • #127 by Barney S. on 2011.11.23 - 4:32 am

      what’s your name in there snacks?

      • #128 by sue_g on 2011.11.23 - 2:28 pm

        Snacks is Snacks in There πŸ™‚ One of the nicest people I’ve ever met online.

  54. #129 by martin71a on 2011.11.21 - 4:18 pm

    when can we get our things from the alt avatars??

  55. #130 by Drain_Bramaged on 2011.11.21 - 3:12 pm

    What is the paypal address? I’m thinkin Is this right?

    • #131 by thereuser on 2011.11.21 - 9:09 pm

      Don’t send money to a random address…. they will most likely setup a billing structure with PayPal.

      • #132 by Drain_Bramaged on 2011.11.21 - 11:56 pm

        O no, definitely not random. They already have a “structure” in place. Have had for a long time, I believe. I’ve used There’s paypal system before. Just can’t remember the receiving address for sure. ‘tu

    • #133 by Kevin Brunner on 2011.11.22 - 8:50 am

      Drain!!! See you in world soon, it’s getting closer. Robin and I can’t wait. She can get into world any time, but I am not high enough status to get in yet. She saw you in the other day but the chat box wouldn’t come up for her, so she couldn’t get to you.


    • #134 by ImageMaker on 2011.11.27 - 8:06 am

      What I’d expect to see (based on the way other most online retailers accept PayPal) is that you’ll go to ThereBanker, select the amount of Tbucks you want to buy (or the amount you want to pay toward membership fees), and click “Pay with PayPal”, which will open a new browser window or tab where you’ll log into PayPal and confirm your payment. You won’t need an e-mail address to the send the money. This is much more secure and less prone to errors than asking you to send money to an e-mail address; no mistyping the recipient and waiting for a payment to reject, nobody scamming by setting up an “almost right” address to receive payments, etc. Doing it any other way is asking for trouble, IMO.

    • #135 by Michael Wilson on 2011.11.27 - 10:04 am

      The “PayPal Address” is not important – we use a different method to invoke PayPal entirely. I’m not at all sure what would happen if someone sent money to that address – “” email addresses aren’t even “real” – we ”used” to convert them to avatar name and re-route them to you internally, but we don’t even do that any more.

      So, don’t send money to “”.

  56. #136 by JS on 2011.11.21 - 3:07 pm

    Great Flash fixed the black bar issue. Great. There is going to be nice in about a month. Maybe by Christmas or before we can log in easily and start paying. Or hey even if you having running nice why don’t you start charging us January 2nd after the holidays. Its up to you.

    Also I hope once we start paying the 10 dollars you don’t keep the afk penalty up and running. Or course this is your decision. But for me as an avatar I like hanging around my portazone afk. Though really I am not afk I just am not doing anything with my avatar a while. I might be watching tv and then looking at my avatar from time to time. At the very least if you can turn the penalty of booting us out being afk while we are inside our own portazone that would be fine.

    Then again I was just thinking while I was walking outside just now. Later when you are up and running I would allow people to be afk standing in various places. So when people come in it looks better. A virtual environment worth being in. Otherwise from time to time it is dead in the water. And if we see a few afk avatars it looks like there is something going on.

    Hey would you happen to know Eric Ries? He worked for There in 2001-2003 I think. Something like that. Then developed IMVU with another There guy. I heard him talk on the other day with Laporte. I am interested in his book The Lean Startup. Maybe you should go on after There is ready to go? In fact how I learned about There was in 2003 watching Tech tv the Screensavers show with Leo Laporte. I saw him flying hoverboards and said oh wow that looks fun so I went for it.

    • #137 by PcDoc on 2011.11.21 - 5:47 pm


    • #138 by AgapeLove on 2011.11.23 - 5:49 am

      I used to enjoy walking around and seeing all the name tags especially when I was new.If the person was afk, it was like they still had a presence as it gave me time to read their profiles , join their clubs etc. Sometimes if I was just about to access some ones profile that looked interesting they might move or telp away; I usually had more luck with the afk ones.

      “JS” I already made mention of not liking the idea of getting kicked off, especially once we start to pay, but that is when the new “fix” is for not now. For now with the limits they were just knocking everyone off at certain intervals and those that were not afk could usually jump back on if they were quick and /or in the middle of something. Those that were truely afk wouldn’t know about it as they weren’t near the pc anyway.

      I understand that the new new technology and economy is a fragile thing at least for now and that we will just have to adjust.If I get upset about getting kicked off it might be because I don’t want it to happen if I am actually doing something. In the past I have had all day Holiday events where an alt with a holiday greeting as part of their name tag were an important part of the event.

      They may have been afk but I was usually on with my main account in another window, and watching both screens.I often had it set up where they told a story on their profile, so they needed to be there as part of the event. Please understand that if I get fussy about getting kicked off it is because I think that is such an awesome place so maybe you can look at it as a complement! But I don’t want to “clog” things up or cause trouble !

      Also I am an older person , set in my ways and not big on change! But like I said I will try to adjust, as I am just glad that There is back !

    • #139 by ImageMaker on 2011.11.27 - 8:10 am

      The whole point of limiting AFK/inactive logins is to save server costs — if (say) you’re the only person logged in on Motu Motu for an hour, Makena is paying for cloud server time to keep one avie rendered, when they’re not even doing anything. There’s no reason I can think of for being AFK longer than ten or fifteen minutes (long enough to go to the bathroom and grab something cold from the fridge) that would override Makena saving on server costs by booting inactive avatars — especially when the server cost difference might be the difference between operating There at break-even or better, vs. losing money and having to close down again.

      Bottom line: if you’re not actually doing something, you don’t need to be logged in; you don’t benefit, no other avatar benefits, and There doesn’t benefit — but we all might suffer.

  57. #140 by Superjuice on 2011.11.21 - 2:12 pm

    Woo Hoo! Penalty to the AFKers who just sit there and hold a “spot”!

  58. #141 by Tassader on 2011.11.21 - 12:59 pm

    My addiction to made me dream up of some “silly” inventions over the years. All to cut down on time I HAD to be physically AFK from to deal with RL stuff.
    A magical stove that would prepare dinner and bring it to me while I decorate my paz, for instance.
    A computer program that generates good excuses for not going to work.
    A system of pipe networks connecting my chair to the toilet. The list was endless in my head.

    Just kidding. All I’m trying to say is I LOVE THERE.COM and I am so happy we are all going back home soon.

  59. #142 by Tassader on 2011.11.21 - 12:06 pm

    I think the main reason people stay AFK is that they know how difficult it is to log back in at this stage. I suppose when the world opens and people can log in at any time this problem will naturally die away.

    On a brighter side of things, I’d like to say Hello to all my Therian brothers and sisters and ‘tu to team Phoenix for the excellent work.

    • #143 by Michael Wilson on 2011.11.21 - 12:50 pm

      There is open to limited number of people so we can get in some good testing, and by testing, we don’t mean “of the AFK function”.

      I’ve now heard of several people out and out abusing AFK to “Reserve” a spot on the server.

      This causes me to reflect on “punitive measures” for people like that. Perhaps they will be Frozen in this special spot I have in world for their AFK minutes, translated to days. OR something. Hmm.

      • #144 by Will on 2011.11.21 - 1:34 pm

        A never ending fall from space would be nice.

      • #145 by Michael Wilson on 2011.11.21 - 3:00 pm

        That would be “fun” for some people.

        I like my little frozen spot. It’s starting to look like a little Medusa’s garden now.

      • #146 by jimony on 2011.11.21 - 4:10 pm

        Don’t make it too horrible, people will want to go there.

      • #147 by thereuser on 2011.11.21 - 7:43 pm

        It sounds like you need some Deepstone Oil πŸ˜€

      • #148 by Lady_Tigrane on 2011.11.22 - 3:15 am

        you could always turn them into a pink squid… freeze them in Zephyr and have us all ‘giddyup them.

  60. #149 by David H on 2011.11.21 - 7:15 am

    Michael, your profile has gone on!

  61. #150 by femsage on 2011.11.21 - 12:57 am

    I don’t have a PayPal account so I suppose I won’t be able to participate in There anymore. It’s surprising that only PayPal is available when many other ways exist to make payments, easily and efficiently at low cost or even no cost to all concerned. What about Moneybookers? I have an account with them. I wish you hadn’t stopped the full logouts you used to have. It did indeed give others a chance to login. As things stand now, it can be impossible to get on except after close. Maybe time it once every four to six hours? I spent most of the weekend playing another game. I kept trying to logon to There, but no dice. I gave up. Another problem is with the Card tables. You play several rounds, get a segment violation and the ThereClient crashes. You cannot get back on because There is full. This has happened to everyone I know on There consistently (I have lots of friends). Needless to say, I’ve stopped playing card games. Other than these difficulties I am pleased that There is back, even if I cannot be there.

    • #151 by Will on 2011.11.21 - 6:00 am

      I’m pretty sure that they will incorporate many other ways soon after the launch to pay with.

    • #152 by JasonMK on 2011.11.21 - 6:15 am

      You can always open a PayPal account πŸ™‚

    • #153 by jimony on 2011.11.21 - 6:32 am

      Well, it’s too bad you won’t be able to be There even though it has been repeated everywhere that you don’t need a PayPal account. I am sure you will be missed.

    • #154 by YankeeintheSouth on 2011.11.21 - 10:09 am

      I dont understand why people dont open a paypal account? I didnt have one either but it took maybe 2 minutes to make one and I think a day to get it verified? It didnt cost anything except for time. They also accept bank accounts or credit cards. Maybe once the fee is in place people will change their minds and make a account. Alot on the internet you need one anyways. If not, I wish you well where ever you end up. πŸ™‚

      • #155 by IMAKOS on 2011.11.21 - 11:25 am

        “shugs, Not sure what the issue

      • #156 by knighthawk101 on 2011.11.21 - 1:13 pm

        Not sure what having a paypal account is with everyone, but as I’ve stated several times. I once had a huge amount of money stolen from my paypal account. I know, the first words out of most folks mouths is either complicated passwords and all that basic security stuff. I had alphanumeric password with 2 special characters. All I know is with paypal I was robbed and with anyone else I’ve spent online money with I haven’t been robbed. Thanks to my bank, My money was returned, eventually, and I had my name frozen so I could never be robbed again by them. I think if I don’t have to have an account with them then sure, probably won’t be a problem for me. If I have to setup an account, I probably will wait for another payment option.

      • #157 by knighthawk101 on 2011.11.21 - 5:42 pm

        Well I did a little research and this is what I found.

        Seems that if ticks a certain box then we could pay through without having to have a paypal account. Now that would ROCK!!!!

      • #158 by jimony on 2011.11.21 - 8:55 pm

        LOL, Knighthawk! They already said we don’t have to have an account with PayPal to pay for There with PayPal. That’s why it is so funny people keep complaining about not having or not wanting a PayPal account.

      • #159 by Kayleigh Lace on 2011.11.22 - 6:36 am

        A guildmate of mine in WoW just mentioned they had their paypal account hacked and they said PayPal wouldn’t do anything about it. :/

        I’ve heard horror stories about it – but if you leave just enough money every month for There – in my thinking – wouldn’t the worst thing be you lose $10 bucks?

        Other thing is – perhaps as with games like WoW – you can cancel with Paypal on a monthly basis after you pay? Or after you pay – go in and edit your credit card number for example so that if someone tried to use it they couldn’t. It’s may be a pain – but it could be a way to protect yourself.

      • #160 by knighthawk101 on 2011.11.22 - 7:43 am

        Jimony, happy I could give you a chuckle then. LOL I’m glad I found out though. Maybe this should be posted as a topic on here and/or on thumdar forum to finally put this misunderstanding to rest.

      • #161 by ImageMaker on 2011.11.27 - 8:22 am

        Sad to say, the PayPal balance isn’t all you can lose if your PayPal is hacked (though as noted, a good password and good PC security are the keys to avoiding this): if someone sends a payment that exceeds the PayPal balance, PayPal will automatically charge to the “default payment option”, which is either a credit card or checking account. PayPal will not allow you to keep an account without one or the other linked for payment, and they’re fairly insistent you have a credit card even if a checking is your primary (a “backup funding source”, they call it) — those of us who avoid credit cards have to find work-arounds.

        PayPal isn’t perfect, but it is free for the individual user (and cheaper than traditional credit card services for the merchant user), doesn’t require credit checks, and is very flexible in terms of using PayPal balance, checking, or credit card as you choose for each individual transaction — and as noted, one doesn’t even have to have a PayPal account to pay merchants via credit card and avoid exposing one’s credit card information, if the merchant has things set up for that.

        Like many of the other changes in bringing There back, the decision to use PayPal only is mainly cost based: it’s less expensive to accept payments through PayPal than to set up merchant services with a bank. That’s one of the things that keeps the break-even membership number low enough to make this fly.

    • #162 by Soosi on 2011.11.21 - 2:07 pm

      I don’t have and won’t have a PayPal account either. I used to have an account with them which worked for a while and then they somehow screwed up. (Yes, it was not me and they even admitted it). It would not let me make transactions although PayPal kept saying they’d fixed it. They finally told me to close the account and start over. It wouldn’t let me close the account so they had to force it. Then the new account kept rejecting my credit card. They kept saying they’d fixed it. I finally gave up. Now I don’t have any credit cards so the whole subject is mute. Someone suggested I use PayPal again because they can just take the money out of your bank account. Heck, why don’t I just have my disability pension sent straight to them. No PayPal here.

      • #163 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.11.21 - 3:08 pm

        Get a greendot prepay debit card. s long as you’re 18 you can load money to it and pay paypal with the card..

      • #164 by Soosi on 2011.11.22 - 3:22 am

        I just went to the Greendot site and read their fee schedule. First is the cost of the card and then there’s the monthly cost unless you spend $1,000 a month or make 30 or more purchases a month. Same rip-off as all the other pre-paid credit cards. I’m a senior on a disability pension so have to count and justify every penny I spend – there is no place for a Greendot or other pre-paid card in my budget.

      • #165 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.11.22 - 3:59 pm

        The card costs 5 dollars, it costs 5 dollars a month. That’s not a ripoff at all, it’s a common sense charge they make you pay for them to handle your money and use their services lol.

      • #166 by Soosi on 2011.11.22 - 5:18 pm

        I don’t mean to be rude Andrew but for some of us that extra $10 is not possible. I am very glad it’s not a big deal for you and I hope you never have to find out what it’s like to have such a seemingly small sum become impossible.

      • #167 by Kayleigh Lace on 2011.11.23 - 9:11 pm

        A Walmart card is $3.00 a month (I know, ’cause I use one). I completely understand your $$ issues – I don’t know if $3 is more doable for you.

        Also – most bank issues debit cards with the visa/mastercard logo – so you *could* have the funds drawn from your bank account – with as many fail safes as possible in place, ofc…

      • #168 by AKAUK on 2011.11.24 - 10:42 am

        to all those who live uk side of the pond that dont want or trust there money with paypal one option is to create a paypal account and simply get a pre paid credit card forget about monthly charges here in the uk there are cards that have 0 charges there is a list of cards here on the moneysupermarket comparrison website

        simply look down the list for the one that suits you the best ones are at the top then use your prepaid card and load in the there monthly fee then paypal will take it from that card not touching your bank or anything simple hope this helps those in the uk

      • #169 by Soosi on 2011.11.26 - 1:03 pm

        Thanks for the suggestion Kayleigh. I’m in Canada and unfortunately my bank doesn’t do the VISA/MasterCard debit cards.

      • #170 by dakotaman on 2011.11.28 - 10:18 pm


        You might wanna try BMO Prepaid Travel MasterCard (Canada). It costs $10 for 3 years of use with no other interest or fees, as far as I can tell. 28 cents per month is a ‘doable’ fee for everyone, i would think.

        Hope to see you in There!


      • #171 by Kayleigh Lace on 2011.11.29 - 2:57 am

        Soosi – a bit more info on the WalMart card – if you transfer funds electronically from your bank account to the card – I believe at least the $3.00 deposit fee is removed.

    • #172 by alexandria3178 on 2011.11.22 - 1:35 pm

      You don’t have to be a member of paypal to use paypal. The person who receives the $$$ has no clue how you pay into paypal.. you can use a paypal account,,, a credit card a debit card… even a refillabe gift card. THERE will still get their money regardless of how you make your paypal payment

  62. #173 by Francis_7 on 2011.11.20 - 7:22 pm

    I am getting rather excited that the homecoming day is getting closer! What a special day that will be. It really will be great to see my freinds agian in world and I can’t wait to get back to hosting events!

  63. #174 by Mooly on 2011.11.20 - 6:12 pm

    Yeowsa! I just bought a 23″ Samsung monitor! Mostly in anticipation of There opening. This is only the second monitor I have ever owned. (in 15 years lol).and seriously the largest. I can’t wait to see how it improves my There experience. Bring it on!

    • #175 by Francis_7 on 2011.11.21 - 4:27 pm

      A new monitor is always fantastic! I still have my 21 inch 3:4 flat screen I bought to play on. I forget what year I bought that I think it was in 2005.
      I think I was one of the few Americans who used thier stumulus check to buy something. In 2009 I used mine to buy a 45 inch big screen. ( I should point out it was a Phillips TV though) It had an HDMI port so I bought an adaptor and a long DVI cable and started using that as my monitor. There looks great on a 40 inch screen. If you have a big screen TV a lot of older video cards, like those with DVI can often be used with adaptors to run your TV as a monitor. Now not all cards are fully compatable. I did have issues with my original card occasionly not recalling it had a monitor connected. So before bothering most graphics card vendors have online chat or mail. Just provide the model and make of your grahpcs card and they can tell you if it supports HDMI or not. I can tell you I am never going back to a regular monitor again. Next summer, should I be able to afford it I want to get a larger one. Perhaps a 50 inch screen. My eyes aren’t getting any younger!

      If you have a newer one with a HDMI or mini HDMI connection, what are you waiting for! There are relatively cheap adaptors to change the type of HDMI. Most of the cards these days have a mini HDMI which is not all that much smaller than full sized HDMI.

      • #176 by Mooly on 2011.11.25 - 7:39 am

        Haha….great information, Francis, but my tv is even older than my 15-year old monitor. Probably no new tv coming ’cause this monitor I just bought was a serious strain on my finances even tho it is a refurbished model. But I’ll keep your info in mind. Thanks!

        Yes, failing eyesight is one reason I decided to get a larger screen (as well as, the old one being the size of two bowling balls on my desk). And I’m thinking I may need a need video card for my older computer to fully enjoy the new monitor–only 32-bit now. I’ve read that stand alone cards are better than onboard cards. So that will be my next find.

      • #177 by Mooly on 2011.11.25 - 7:48 am

        ….And I’m thinking I may need a NEW video card ….

  64. #178 by Laci on 2011.11.20 - 5:38 pm

    I’m happy to read of this πŸ™‚ After months of trying to get in, I finally got in one day much to my surprise πŸ˜€ It was so good to be “there” again. I didn’t stay long, I know many people trying to get in, but now it wont load a shader so I can’t even try to get back in 😦 Is there a place to redownload maybe? Sorry if this should be posted elsewhere, I was just so excited and happy to read this post I thought I’d put both bits of my reply here. Thanks for all the hard work… I can’t wait to be back in “there”!

  65. #181 by timcraven on 2011.11.20 - 5:17 pm

    any one having problems that when u log into there all u se is messed up mountains and water or just me?

    • #182 by CpnBob on 2011.11.21 - 6:07 pm

      Tim ~
      Go to your There Settings. Go to Audio Visual and c li ck on thed DX9 option. Then relog and yhou’ll be fixed.

  66. #183 by __iC0di33X on 2011.11.20 - 4:53 pm

    Hey MW i was suspended and i’m not aware of why?

  67. #184 by bignbad on 2011.11.20 - 4:39 pm

    Great news Michael

  68. #185 by Dusky Rose on 2011.11.20 - 2:14 pm

    Please consider a one week free trial period for new people. I’d like to bring in friends but I’m sure they would like to try it for a week first.

  69. #186 by Joe on 2011.11.20 - 10:17 am

    Okay I FINALLY got my main avatar logged on. Going thru my inventory, I see none of the custom paint jobs and wheels are available for my 5 coupes and 1 muscle car. Will these be brought back in time? I paid a decent amount of money for them. My Scion car’s custom paint was in my inventory and was able to apply that to the car. Please don’t tell me I’m stuck with 5 blue coupes with a number 24 on the doors. I was able to reclaim my PAZ spot and setup my home the way it used to be (or fairly close). I think I read somewhere that before There is ready to go online fully open, Things will be cleared. I don’t remember exactly what it was. God I hope I didn’t go thru all the trouble of setting up my home (I used all 100 of my 100 drops) for nothing.

    • #187 by ImageMaker on 2011.11.21 - 2:54 am

      Old saved layouts are still usable, if you saved the userdata folder from your old installation; even if you didn’t, layout saving and loading are generally working correctly (barring an occasional Flash glitch).

  70. #188 by Juls Tessmer on 2011.11.20 - 9:32 am

    Ohhh what a nice surprise! And what a surprise for people to just happen to get on! Yes Thum close is good! yay your jamt :))) handstand, rtr

  71. #189 by Maddie on 2011.11.20 - 7:01 am

    Please do NOT forget about the people who can’t remember their passwords!! Thank you MW. (:

    • #190 by jimony on 2011.11.21 - 6:35 am

      We should have a memorial for them once a year so they shall not be forgotten.

  72. #191 by puppy on 2011.11.20 - 4:46 am

    Where are the cats?

    • #192 by Kayleigh Lace on 2011.11.29 - 3:00 am

      Mine is sitting on the window sill next to my bed… πŸ˜€

  73. #193 by justagreatguy on 2011.11.20 - 4:44 am

    I wonder if There will open Dec 25?

    • #194 by jimony on 2011.11.21 - 6:38 am

      This is a statement with a question mark. I think it is a station or maybe a questment?

      • #195 by justagreatguy on 2011.11.21 - 9:33 am

        I’m not sure? lol!

      • #196 by Achenar on 2011.11.21 - 11:17 am

        I am? lol

      • #197 by Achenar on 2011.11.21 - 2:51 pm

        Is that a question! lol

      • #198 by justagreatguy on 2011.11.21 - 11:40 pm

        I’m not sure?

    • #199 by Hugsie on 2011.11.21 - 3:17 pm

      thunder… thunder.. Thunder.. THUNDERC- …oh wait wrong cat.

  74. #200 by Brandon on 2011.11.20 - 12:34 am

    Looking forward to a Mac client? Is it currently being worked on?

  75. #201 by ReluctantX on 2011.11.19 - 8:04 pm

    Agreed, close is good! My only concern is that some of my items aren’t showing up in my change me and inventory. I had like 3x more clothes then I have now. But anywho, thanks for the update.

  76. #202 by Glenda Rathbone on 2011.11.19 - 6:36 pm

    I am so-o-o-o excited!!! Thank you so much for all your work toward this event.

  77. #203 by Joe on 2011.11.19 - 6:33 pm

    I should get a free month just because my profile pics are awesome. lol Joe_R203 πŸ™‚

  78. #204 by Andrew Harris on 2011.11.19 - 6:21 pm

    These posts get my head up and a smile on my face. Paypal is ready and confirmed on my side. I am just waiting for my christmas money so I can buy 100 dollars in T$ and my subscription! πŸ˜€ Thanks for all you do MW – you owe SamSyn a nice steak dinner or something. Bonus to his check?

  79. #205 by Dean Caballero ( Bumpin42 ) on 2011.11.19 - 5:04 pm

    Iam ready for the reopenning. Mw come get some money lol : )0 So i can get some t-bux lol, I already own my friend 25k and i need to pay her back.

  80. #206 by Wiz on 2011.11.19 - 4:41 pm

    I have been wanting to get my account in game but i sent in a help thing to like i was supposed to that i forgot secret Q and my old email and all my passwords. And its been a week or more before they gotten back. Can i get some help there MW?

  81. #211 by Juli on 2011.11.19 - 4:04 pm

    Great news! I wish we had known to ONLY resurrect ONE legacy avatar! I resurrected my oldest avie and 3 others that are younger. The younger avies can NOT log in yet so I cannot merge inventory. I DON”T mind paying $40 for the first month to rearrange all my inventory from those resurrected avies. BUT….it just does NOT seem fair that if I had known to NOT resurrect the 3 younger avies that I could merge the inventories for free using the new tool. Am I seeing this incorrectly?

    Maybe I do NOT understand so I am asking that when I pay the first month for my oldest resurrected Legacy Avie can I merge the others using the new tool?

    If not could we have a short grace period of even 48 hours for those like me who resurrected too many avies cause we got so excited that There was reopening?

    Oh and thank you for reopening so IF there is no way to rectify all of this I will just figure that I will be contributing to putting There into the Black INK category for the first month! LOL! Hey do I have ink on my nose? LOL!

    • #212 by jimony on 2011.11.20 - 2:41 pm

      Is that ink? I didn’t know they made brown ink.


      (I mean just kidding, not claiming to be the Harry Potter author)

    • #213 by Jdin707 on 2011.11.21 - 3:32 pm

      Resurrecting your old avatars has not cost you anything, once the alt avatar tool is in place, as I understand, you log in with your main, using the tool enter the avatar name and password and migrate inventory, wash rinse and repeat for each alt. This process will take a day or two to migrate inventory and is free of charge….all items migrated to main avatar, still no fee. No need to pay a subscription for alts. That is how I understood the process, if I am wrong someone correct me….

      • #214 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.11.22 - 4:06 pm

        Wrong I believe. Only unclaimed legacy avatars will be used with this tool as they said if you already reclaimed the inventory(resurrected the legacy avatar) you will have to pay at least for a month to transfer the items if you’re not able to by the time they start charging. The thing is, this tool will not help very many people at all minus those not aware of reopening yet or those with alts they forgot the passwords to. Cause pretty much everyone here has already reclaimed everything they can.

  82. #215 by patiently waiting..kinda on 2011.11.19 - 3:34 pm

    any alternatives to paypal?

  83. #216 by Rhonda Ebert on 2011.11.19 - 1:16 pm


  84. #217 by Okalnix on 2011.11.19 - 12:29 pm

    Happy Dance.
    Thank you for the great news.

  85. #218 by MademoiselleFifi on 2011.11.19 - 12:23 pm

    Can’t wait for the day we will be able to “get in”….not seeing the “world is full”….december is around the corner….good news….

  86. #219 by Xcal Urradio on 2011.11.19 - 11:47 am

    Micheal If you have paypal you should be credit card ready. was there Another way you where thinking of Paying? even if People do not have Paypal they can still pay you from paypal with a credit card am I correct?

    • #220 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.11.19 - 1:05 pm

      He said originally paypal will be the only way at least at first. But yes you can use a credit card through paypal.

    • #221 by vursala25 on 2011.11.22 - 2:49 pm

      i always used the, ”Ultimate Game Card” too buy Tbucs. Hopefully, that will come back.

      • #222 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.11.23 - 5:21 pm

        Even if they accepted them to buy tbux with they won’t accept them to pay your membership with cause any teen could obtain them.

      • #223 by vursala25 on 2011.11.25 - 8:17 am

        Andrew Almeida,, i am way older than you so no worries . I’m no kid,here.. Reason,I mention that Game card I was a premium member,before all this has changed..

  87. #224 by Jimmy Kluding (@LegionNinja) on 2011.11.19 - 10:56 am

    Will there be an option to use a regular credit card once there opens up? Some people here probably don’t have Paypal accounts.

    • #225 by dakotaman on 2011.11.19 - 2:26 pm

      I believe it has been said many times that PayPal will be the only option. The rationale being that There does not have to mess with (and store) credit card numbers. So, if people want to play There, they better have PayPal. It’s FREE, it provides added security, and did I mention it’s FREE??

      Hope this helps!


      • #226 by Jimmy Kluding (@LegionNinja) on 2011.11.21 - 10:53 am

        Then I guess I am up the creek without a paddle, because the last time I used paypal I had all my information stored on it stolen. That’s a chance I am not willing to take again.

      • #227 by ImageMaker on 2011.11.27 - 8:32 am

        You can use PayPal to pay direct from your credit card without having a PayPal account. If you’re not willing to use PayPal even to that extent, another option would be to get a prepaid debit card and set up a PayPal account linked only to that card; then you can’t (monetarily, at least) lose more than the balance on the prepaid card. Otherwise, it’s worth noting that credit card information can be stolen in many other ways than only through PayPal; the fact you’ve had trouble with PayPal doesn’t make it any riskier than using a direct merchant setup (and a merchant setup is quite a bit more expensive to Makena), it just means you’ve had your bad luck on PayPal; others have had problems with other processing methods (FWIW, though I doubt this is the case at Makena, there’s a much greater history of employees at the payee end stealing credit information than there is at PayPal, where it’s never handled by a human — and this goes double for online-only sellers).

  88. #228 by RRTT on 2011.11.19 - 10:05 am

    I could really do with a few T’s, Glad to see that will launch soon. Hopefully really soon, lol.

  89. #229 by Susan Van Brundt Redlin on 2011.11.19 - 8:18 am

    ooo, getting goose bumps here. Played a full game of spades yesterday, was fun, even tho Jo Bleaux and I lost!

    Would it be possible to “selectively” retrieve inventory from our alt avies? If we could just pull up all our extra stuff one or 2 or 100 things at a time it would be the same as having a “closet” for our junk.

    Gonna install the new flash. Make sure flash is updated in Internet Explorer if you use another browser. Even tho I use Chrome as my browser, I set IE as my “default” browser, it’s more compatible with There.

    Thanks again, kids. ‘monkey

    — Jane Austen

  90. #230 by SunnyMusic on 2011.11.19 - 7:42 am

    ”’YAY!!! Soooooooooooooo excited!!! πŸ˜€

    • #231 by SunnyMusic on 2011.11.19 - 7:44 am

      Oh, and I have Adobe 11.1 installed! ;tu

  91. #232 by IMAKOS on 2011.11.19 - 7:37 am

    Good Morning MW,

    what is excessive AFK?

    Since I started playing in 2008 many of us would AFK in our Homes, on a vehicle or on a mountian top while at work, shopping for dinner or AFK while fixing dinner for the kids… Is AFK now a Bad thing in

    Thank You for the updates

    IMAKOS ( LEI )

    • #233 by Michael Wilson on 2011.11.19 - 8:10 am

      When you’re “AFK”, the servers still have to simulate your avatar’s physics (gravity never sleeps), and it consumes other resources.

      I’m not sure there is any benefit in leaving your avatar AFK while you’re away, other than AFK skilling, which we all know is not how skilling should be done.

      So yes, excessive AFK is a bad thing, and since we’re more concerned with running an efficient, profitable operation, having puffed up “# of people in world” numbers is less important that getting the most out the resources we have (server wise).

      • #234 by AgapeLove on 2011.11.19 - 8:48 am

        Re. “which we all know is not how skilling should be done.” Watching the whole process of skilling in casual or even expert might be fun and possible . But there are also human resources to be considered here, if I were to watch every “mile” it takes to get to legendary in whatever ride I’m skilling in I would be blind and my brain would be mush if it isn’t already! πŸ™‚

        I think it is more important and necessary to be present when skilling up in the social skills, as all the time that I was an IG I never attempted AFK Newbie helper πŸ™‚

        And if you saw my other post ,I listed other things that I do on afk besides skilling. But if I can accomplish the same things with DND on and not get knocked off , I will use that way instead. But that still doesn’t solve the problem of too much drain on the servers.

        But if I pay to have two avies on at a time and one is less active;although it might be serving a purpose to me ,I hope that the extra account will help pay back a little toward my part of the server use. Agape’

      • #235 by fulkenstien on 2011.11.19 - 9:50 am

        so if we log on from the end of maintence to when maintence begins we have ever how long maintence is to get stuff done in real
        when i was a newbie i was so glad that There wasnt 24/7.i dont think i would have taken the time for a shower the first month i was a member.

        whats going to be considered “excessive AFK”?

      • #236 by HUGSaLOT on 2011.11.19 - 10:11 am

        Actually it’s the only way to skill on vehicles like hoverboats. Since the point of hoverboating is to fly around from zone to zone, once your cross over into a new zone, you’re not longer earning any XP for hoverboat captain skills. The same holds true for other vehicles. So unless you guys fixed this bug recently, people will still “afk skill” while stationary.

      • #237 by Achenar on 2011.11.19 - 11:45 am

        “excessive AFK” should be anything over 10 minutes.

      • #238 by fulkenstien on 2011.11.19 - 3:03 pm

        i am 47 years old i may be on a bathroom break for more than ten minutes.rofl

      • #239 by thereuser on 2011.11.19 - 3:47 pm

        @Hugs : thanks for the heads up! I couldn’t figure out why my Buggy wasn’t going up! It is because I’ve been driving around!

      • #240 by JasonMK on 2011.11.19 - 4:23 pm

        Achenar, I don’t know about 10 minutes being excessive. I for one have enjoyed being logged in to There for hours as I read, finish homework, etc and have just enjoyed having my avatar logged for the quick ride here and there. Not that I expect my opinion to change policy, so I won’t even waste the texts to try and come up with a compelling argument, but I guess it had always been like back when we used AIM (before facebook) we could just be logged in for when a friend happen to sign on. Something that would not be known unless we were also signed in. But, that’s just me. I’m grateful that There2 will be opening and see how the new There feels. Thanks for all the work MW, look forward to the day I sign in and find out There2 has already been “reopened”.

      • #241 by Francis_7 on 2011.11.19 - 7:51 pm

        Somoene suggested that 10 minutes is too long to be AFK. I often log into There and then would go off to make breakfast or something while my inventory loads. It seems faster in this new version of, but it is most assuredly longer than 10 minutes before I can start decorating.

        And how would AFK be measured? I am glad that organizing inventory would not count as being idle, but is being AFK measured if the avatar moving? How about on cruise control on a boat? Would it count if the avatar was moving say up, as in the long flight up into space?

        Just rather curious what would count. Often we have extras in movies who occcasionly to stand around silently for long periods of time, it would be bad if they suddenly got logged off just as we wer ein the middle of filming.

      • #242 by jimony on 2011.11.20 - 2:33 pm

        I think they are concerned about hours of AFK not minutes. It is just that the testing at the moment has brought the being AFK to light as a waste of There resources. As long as there is a load limit of how many avatars can login at a time people are going to be concerned that they can’t login when someone else is taking time to fix breakfast while logged in.

        When There is open for everyone to login at the same time, they won’t care about others being AFK so much because it won’t directly affect them, but in the past it was common for avies to stay logged in all day and just sit there AFK, skilling or just waiting for friends to show up and yell out of their computers for them.

        I think AFK up to an hour won’t affect There so much, but for a large part of a day would.

      • #243 by jimony on 2011.11.20 - 2:38 pm

        Remember, MW said “excessive AFK is a bad thing”. Excessive would be abusing the AFK system, but the AFK system is there for a reason too.

      • #244 by ImageMaker on 2011.11.21 - 3:01 am

        “But there are also human resources to be considered here, if I were to watch every β€œmile” it takes to get to legendary in whatever ride I’m skilling in I would be blind and my brain would be mush if it isn’t already!”

        Guess what — I’m Legendary in hoverboard, and just a few ticks from Legendary in buggy, and I’ve done every minute of that time (barring a couple hours of static board standing years ago which, as far as I could tell, did nothing for my skill anyway) the old fashioned way — with my fingers on the keyboard and mouse, actually doing stuff (jumping off high places and tricking on the way down, or driving across every square kilometer of land in the world multiple times). Yes, it took me, if I recall, three years to make Legendary — but isn’t that what Legendary is supposed to mean, that you’ve spent a lot of time getting there and have some actual “finger” skill to go with the golden ticket and jacket?

      • #245 by SaltySilver on 2011.11.21 - 7:09 am

        Thanks for the info,
        As, we all have to work together to make stay “in the black”.
        Would it be possible to have a list made, of things like AFK, buggy dumping and the effects on profits?
        Also things we can do to help make things profitable?

    • #246 by xSnoopy on 2011.11.19 - 10:36 am

      Right now, people are AFK because of the Login Limit. If you log out, you might not be able to log back in, because the world is FULL.
      When There officially opens and the Login Limit is lifted, there should be no reason to go AFK or DND for long periods of time. It takes less than a minute to log back into world.
      Yes AgapeLove, I read your last post and none of those reasons are valid to be AFK for extended periods of time, IMHO.
      1. Play MP3’s in another window while your logged into There. You can hear it in the background.
      2. Writing? Why in the world would you want to be logged into There and then just sit there and write?
      3. Skilling? Do it the old fashion way, work for it.
      4. “human resources”?? Have you considered going into politics? That’s not a reason, it’s an excuse.
      Lets ALL just be thankful that our world is going to re-open soon and there will be NO login Limit.
      Geeeeez guys, cut the man some slack!

      PS, Michael, next time you show up in Zephyr, have a gun and NO Forcefield! πŸ™‚

      • #247 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.11.19 - 1:16 pm

        I have to disagree cause there are very valid reasons for some to go afk for long periods of time. There is compatible with dial-up service. But when I 1st came to There it took 1-2 weeks of leaving my avatar afk while I slept to get all the colors and textures loaded enough for me to even realize it was feasible to use There. If a new user comes and gets kicked each time they go afk trying to see if it may load, I’m sure they’d be inclined to give up…I know I would have. It’s not something I’ll need to do every day, just for a few days initially. I guess I’ll have to figure out how long we’re afk before being kicked and come up with a way of getting around it otherwise I won’t be wasting the 100 or so hours it takes to load properly by just sitting at my pc so I can tap a key every few minutes. Now this would be easily fixed if we could buy the software on a CD with everything minus user content preloaded on it(someone once told me this used to happen) but I doubt there’s enough of us 56k modem users to bother with it. As for skilling lol, I agree with the guy. If there’s an easier way to skill up rather than hours on end of just doing one thing then why not do it the easy way? It’s designed to work for a reason. I noticed on another 3d site while using giggles to spam for There that that server did not recognize my avie as going afk when it normally would have, so does it mean looping giggles will prevent the server from kicking us?

      • #248 by AgapeLove on 2011.11.19 - 2:50 pm

        As far as writing ,im talking about in There quests/ books etc..and as far as the music , I enjoy my juke box ;I shouldnt have to look for anythIng else. And if I want to fly from one island to another, it may take an hour or more, sorry i’m not going to sit and watch myself fly for an hour or more! I do check regularly though to make sure i’m still on coarse.

        And by human resources, I was referring to trying not to get eyestrain from staring at the screen more than necessary or sitting too much as i’m an older person.I was talking about protecting my physical resources;sorry if I wasn’t clear on that.

        I’m not talking about staying afk on There while leaving the house; I usually shut the pc down then. I’m talking about using it while in world to have a more enjoyable time.

        It is funny that no one complained to me when I kept an alt on before 23/7 “Afk” to keep dogs on the WW for the use of the new members , once I discovered how I could do that .I know that no one asked me to that ,but at that time as a guide I was actually excited about There and cared about how well they did .

        I’m still excited about There and want to see them do well, but I have been in other VWs where we are logged off right away for inactivity and when that happens I usually stay off!(but those were free worlds) I used to think how glad I was that There didn’t do that.

        The point is we will be paying now and when I log on to get the benifit of that service, I don’t want to be logged off right away! What if Net Flix decided in the middle of a movie that we had been on long enough and cancelled the end of the movie?

        Sorry as I said I like to write . Snoopy “cut me some slack” Agape’

      • #249 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.11.19 - 4:21 pm

        Agape, While I can agree with you that there are legitimate reasons a user may be AFK for a little extended amount of time…you have to look at this all a different way on the company’s reasoning. Me personally I can rent a hotel with free high speed for one night to solve my slow loading issues and never need to be AFK long. But not a lot to do when it comes to flying for long periods of time without getting to your pc within intervals based on the kick time to hit a keystroke or two. This is the way to look at it. There failed before. They shut down and publicly they were gone for ever. The main reason for them booting AFK avatars is part of a SMART new approach to this business. As an op on Smeet I tossed in an idea for that server to boot idle users cause they had hundreds of them at the time all day long. I told them it would cut server lag cause they typically go afk in the load spot with a cluster of 20-30 avatars together. They ignored most of my ideas needless to say. But this will cut costs for running the servers by removing each avatar after so many afk minutes…it adds up. It aint going to be to punish us or anything, and I’m sure the new TOS will have us agreeing to this measure naturally. So paying 10 won’t and should not protect us from it especially if this helps them stay open and afford to this time. Maybe they can set it up that you can enter to pay so many tbux to be afk for specific amounts of time and when you turn it on and go afk as long as you have the tbux it’ll leave you on. Too offset the costs to have an avie wasting resources. But I doubt they’d do that. Sorry for writing books ppl lol I’m bored. Yes I know, boredom is a state of mind πŸ™‚

      • #250 by zonereport on 2011.11.19 - 5:03 pm

        If they logged out it would give some other folks a chance to try things out and see how it worked for them. I know folks that still have never been able to get logged in the first time. 😦

      • #251 by xSnoopy on 2011.11.19 - 5:25 pm

        WHOA, your right .. I’m one of those Paintball nuts and there is NO WAY to be competitive on Dialup, at least not today.
        As far as skilling is concerned, I must admit that I “cheated” for the first Legendary jacket in Paintball. I stood in an empty Paintball zone and from 95% to Legendary, I shot at a corner post. Talk about BORING!!
        The other 3 Legendary jackets I have on 3 other avies, were earned the old fashioned way, by shooting at something that shot back. Trust me, it was a lot more fun!!

        I will have to plead ignorance as far as Quests are concerned. I have no idea what is involved.
        You seem to be missing Michael’s point. The idea was, not to use the resources just because you feel that, by paying $10.00 a month, you deserve to “Leave the light on all night” even though no one is in the room. Reminds me of someone I knew. He was a cop and told me that he didn’t mind leaving his patrol car running all the time, while he was on duty. After all, he was not paying for the gas.
        “Human Resources” … That’s the first time I have heard that one. The “I’m older than you are” game, always amuses me. My solution to eye strain was to buy a better monitor. It worked! I paintball at my advanced age! You want eye strain, try Paintball.
        I do believe there is a potential position for you on the Republican ticket in 2012. πŸ™‚

      • #252 by jimony on 2011.11.19 - 8:33 pm

        I sometimes liked to set my cruise control on and just let my avie drive or fly by itself, and come back later to see where I went, but I didn’t like to leave my avie just “skilling” I felt a skill should be earned and I didn’t consider AFK skilling as earning it.

        In the past it may have made sense to use an alt to listen to music as it was easy and free (for us), but now that we know that costs There more money, we should be more mindfull of the server time we use. Yes, we will pay now, but we should still not overuse There’s resources if we want There to stay open.

        By kicking AFK avies off, There will be able to stay open longer. This is one reason I think There should have chose to charge by time on.

      • #253 by xSnoopy on 2011.11.20 - 3:43 am

        Your right, not with a 56k connection.
        I’m one of those Paintball nuts and you can’t be competitive with that kind of a connection, not today.
        I must admit that I “cheated” for the first Legendary jacket in Paintball. Stood in a Paintball Zone and from 95% to legendary, I shot at a corner post… HOW BORING! The other 3, on different avies, I earned the old fashioned way, I shot at something that shot back! It was a lot more fun that way!

        I will plead ignorance when it comes to quests. Just not something that interests me.
        You seem to be missing Michale’s point. Just because you pay $10.00 a month to play There, doesn’t mean that you can “leave the light on all night”, even though no one is in the room.
        Your reasoning reminds me of something an old friend told me. He was a Police Officer. He said, “I don’t care if the squad car idles all night, when I am on duty, I don’t have to pay for the gas”.
        “human resources” … That’s the first time I have heard that one! It always amuses me when people play the “I’m older than you are” game. A few months ago, I had the same problem with my eyes, my solution was to buy a better monitor, IT WORKED!.
        You want eye strain, play Paintball. After an hour or two, even these ancient eyes are strained.
        Yes, there may very well be a spot for you on the Republican ticket, in 2012. πŸ™‚
        Keep smiling Agapel, we will all be home soon!

      • #254 by Francis_7 on 2011.11.20 - 8:51 am

        I often would be designing models in g-max while flying around with freinds in a hoverboat, where I would come back to the world and repsond to a comment every so often, or while sitting in a meeting which went on for hours and hours. I am just not sure what counts as idle.

      • #255 by Garth on 2011.11.21 - 12:37 am


        This is the most stupid+selfish answer to the AFK question I’ve ever heard.

        “I have to keep my connection tied up so no one else can get in. I’m so important that my ability to come back in when I’m finally ready to play means that another user clicks endlessly until the entire time they set aside to play is wasted.”

        Taken further (we’ll still have login limits initially as the service re-grows, that whole ‘get into the black’ goal), what I worry we’ll see is people WHO STOP SUBSCRIBING because they can’t log in anytime they try because of AFKers. I’ll bet you see people who justify keeping that spot “because I paid $10/month, I should be able to be logged in all day and night because I want to be able to play after dinner”. But the thing is, there will be more revenue for Makena (and thus faster growth, more money for features and fixes) if we don’t waste the resources if they are not actually being used.

        Put simply, needlessly AFKing costs Makena money by ‘spending’ that revenue on Amazon servers and bandwidth.

        I’d love to know who really afk. Maybe we can get a ‘clock’ icon that shows in your nametag if you’ve been AFK for more than an hour. That could apply social pressure to log off / switch to ThereIM when you’re going AFK.

        OH! Lets get an AFK skill:

        (100 hours of AFK) [10hours * 10 days] = casual
        Casual AFK’er: Idles Offline after 3 hours (200 hours of AFK) [3 hours * 33.3 days]
        Avid AFK’er: Idles Offline after 90 minutes (250 hours of AFK) [90 minutes * 30 days]
        Expert AFK’er: Idles Offline after 60 minutes (300 hours of AFK) [60 minutes & 50 days]
        Renowned AFK’er: Idles Offline after 30 minutes (325 hours of AFK) [30 minutes & 50 days]
        Legendary AFK’er: Idles Offline after 30 minutes, $5/month increase in membership fee

        At the point that the size of the cluster makes ‘world full’ messages rare, this issue would MOSTLY go away. However, the truth will still remain that wasting those resources affects everyone and our goal should be maximizing revenue for Makena, not Amazon.


        (xSnoopy, I’m presuming you’re just reporting this and not doing it yourself. Don’t take this personally unless you are)
        (Andrew, I don’t know how to address your valid concern, we wouldn’t want someone to be able to simply drop their connection profile to dial-up to avoid AFK detection)

  92. #256 by Bronnieb There on 2011.11.19 - 7:08 am

    Sounds like things are moving along ….and hope the word “close” is being used as a noun πŸ™‚ …fan…bloody…tastic!

  93. #257 by AgapeLove on 2011.11.19 - 6:39 am

    Just a few questions/Comments on the logging off those who are afk too much. What about afk skilling and are we even still having skilling? Also I like to make long flights via cruise control between the Islands , using the user cam, this was not only a way to skill up for me but its fun! And all though I regularly check on the progress it is an mostly afk thing.

    Also If I pay extra to keep an alt on,one of their purposes is often to set beside my juke box afk and allow me to hear my music uninterupted everywhere I go. That gives me sort of a car radio if im traveling and if I transmit it through voice, my passengers can hear it also.

    I also like to write a lot and I would hate to be in the middle of writing a quest or something and get knocked off when I appear to be afk . I would loose what I’m writing even though I am very much on and enjoying There in the ways I like best. Also if I’m building or something I like to put on my green glasses as I perfer that to dnd.

    Please rethink knocking us off if we are afk ,as for me , part of the enjoyment for me on there includes planned afk .I could see if we were still in the old Free There, but once I start paying I really don’t like to get knocked off afk or not 😦

    • #258 by HUGSaLOT on 2011.11.19 - 10:20 am

      Really? Music? So i have to waste 30 mins clicking the login button because you’re listing to music with your ALT on AFK? That really seems like a waste of MW’s resources (plus your own CPU/GPU resources) and block opportunities for others to login, when the logins are “full” just so you can listen to music? You can just use iTunes, media player, Winamp, or just a web browser to stream a shoutcast server.

      Honestly I’m all in favor for AFK kick offs. it’s not uncommon for MMOs to do this. If you’re against this common sense premise, I guess you like lag!

      • #259 by AgapeLove on 2011.11.19 - 3:45 pm

        No I was talking about before not now , and I would be using one avie to do something active and the other would be playing music; only one would be afk. No one ever told me before that that was a problem ! I especially liked to listen to my juke box while working on the ww. I didn’t like the music that was playing there already, so I would mute it for myself and listen to my own.

        It was relaxing and I found myself being more pleasent with the new members, no matter what they may have put me through at times!

      • #260 by Kayleigh Lace on 2011.11.21 - 7:23 am

        @hugsalot completely true with some MMORPGs to do this.

        People AFK skilling – do folks really forget? How many times I’d see someone in a house on their hoverboard or sitting in a buggy or having some macro to say commands to their dogs – and it was quite obvious they had gone for the night. I’m quite confident Mr. Wilson et. al. aren’t dumb and know who is taking advantage of ‘afk’ to stay in game and keep their spot. I am sure they have their ways of detecting if someone is actually doing something on the other end of the avatar.

        Look at my skill ups – not a single one of them was done afk. It is possible to do it the way I’m sure the creators had in mind. To actually DO it – not to sleep for 12 hours and come back and have it done because you stood in a box on a hoverboard.

    • #261 by Barbie_Doll on 2011.11.19 - 11:15 am

      LOL Why not just open Shoutcast in a browser?

    • #262 by SaltySilver on 2011.11.21 - 7:30 am

      Lol, and I thought that AFK skilling was a noob thing. kind of like a snake oil salesmans wagon.

  94. #263 by l keen on 2011.11.19 - 6:15 am

    will we have to get paypal account or will i be able to use my visa eventualy

    • #264 by HUGSaLOT on 2011.11.19 - 10:23 am

      Ah yeah i better load up some cash into paypal so i’ll be ready to pay for my ALT’s account.
      Question is what EXACTLY will the fee be? Is there tax (VAT for those in europe?) is it $9.95 or exactly $10 usd?

    • #265 by jimony on 2011.11.19 - 8:17 pm

      You don’t need a paypal account itself, you can pay from your credit card through paypal with one.

      • #266 by jimony on 2011.11.19 - 8:18 pm

        *without* one.

      • #267 by Basya on 2011.11.20 - 4:06 pm

        Or you can set up PayPal to deduct directly from your checking account!! I believe that is what I have it set to do.

  95. #268 by Winged on 2011.11.19 - 6:04 am

    the excitement i feel it in my bones! πŸ˜€

  96. #269 by Christy Clendenen on 2011.11.19 - 6:03 am

    YAY!!!! I am glad you all will not “announce” the opening, but it was going to be very entertaining watching everyone scramble LOL * evil laugh* And YAY! YAY! On the penalty for the endless hours the AFKers are taking up from other people who just want to get in and see their friends. LOG OFF peeps if you are going to be AWAY ALL DAY!! Sheesh! I saw 5 people yesterday on the end logs in Phoenix all on away for hours, I think people don’t realize that we are still in BETA and that there are other people who would like to get in too. Ok I’m done πŸ™‚


    • #270 by HUGSaLOT on 2011.11.19 - 10:25 am

      Technically not a beta.. though it is a testing period. But at least thing things we are doing (including the AFKers) brings to light what needs to be done once goes live. Linden Labs could learn a LOT from the Fab Four that MW has. GET S**T DONE!

  97. #271 by Phebe on 2011.11.19 - 5:31 am

    what is QA by the way? Im not good with abbreviations i dont know lol

  98. #273 by 12mandy on 2011.11.19 - 5:29 am

    thanks michael for update wonderful were almost there i think,

  99. #274 by Sassybeme There on 2011.11.19 - 5:29 am

    Now for one of those important money type questions. Do we set the paypal stuff from the profile yet, or wait a bit? Or would we be getting an alert to set payment up when trying to log in? Just in case I miss the information email.

    • #275 by Dan Samuel on 2011.11.19 - 3:21 pm

      If you need a subscription, when the time comes, it will block your login with an explanation and provide a link for establishing the subscription. So you don’t need to do anything in advance of that.

  100. #277 by fulkenstien on 2011.11.19 - 5:07 am

    so no more AFK events?no more AFK leveling( like sitting in a buggy while you go off to bed at night)?

    • #278 by Jdin707 on 2011.11.21 - 3:14 pm

      AFK leveling is not how the leveling process was supposed to be in the first place. To truly say you’ve gained something while sitting in a buggy or bike or some other form of itemized leveling skill object and walking around like you have actually accomplished something is a weak way earning the accomplishment…..So it does not hurt my feelings AFK leveling will or should be stopped.

  101. #279 by Yarndoll on 2011.11.19 - 4:38 am

    Love it! Thanks for the update.

  102. #280 by Wendy Stoll (Wendy50s) on 2011.11.19 - 4:25 am

    Excellent news!! You guys will be top of the list on my “what I’m thankful for” next week πŸ™‚

  103. #281 by mimi06 on 2011.11.19 - 4:15 am

    Awsome news! The Chat Instructor even did a happy dance! She sure has been lonely! can anyone tell me if this is compatible with paypal? I have no idea about such things. And am trying to help some that have this as only means? I hope I even copied it properly. Thanks!

  104. #282 by mmeodiles on 2011.11.19 - 3:56 am

    This is great news! Ty Phoenix crew!

  105. #283 by Sandy Wager on 2011.11.19 - 3:37 am

    Ooops, just a quick warning to those who are installing Adobe Flash Player 11…..if you have Firefox you will need to disable it so that Adob can install. Just click File, top left of page, then click exit. Now you can continue to install Adobe. Simples!

  106. #284 by Sandy Wager on 2011.11.19 - 3:34 am

    Shopping in auctions can take ages, hopefully that will not come within afk?
    You, Michael and the team, are doing a fantastic job and I truly believe will be even better than before. I have not found any problems since popping into there world. I lag a lot but that is more than likely the state of my old trusty laptop. Happiness and success to you all. πŸ™‚

  107. #285 by Lioness on 2011.11.19 - 3:23 am

    i want tBucks lol

  108. #286 by martin71a on 2011.11.19 - 3:16 am

    hi all so MW when can we use this tool to get our alt avatars online so we can trancfer invanory over???


  109. #287 by SaltySilver on 2011.11.19 - 3:13 am

    What a perfect time of year to be ready to reopen. A season full of thankful hearts, wonder and joy.

  110. #288 by Elizabeth Robinson on 2011.11.19 - 2:46 am

    Now my wait for the Mac client officially begins! Can’t wait for that; understanding that my wait will most likely be a long ‘un! πŸ™‚

  111. #289 by WhiteWabbit on 2011.11.19 - 2:29 am

    thats very awesome to hear there is almost perfect thank you MW

    but what about the mac client when will it will be released?

    thank you

  112. #290 by YankeeintheSouth on 2011.11.19 - 2:29 am

    Wow, appreciate the quick response! Now I see why your so vague, ‘tu…makes sense. One friend has a zone rent due soon and hubby isnt sharing his tbucks to nicely with her, lol. Thats why I had to ask… so with your answer, my reply is: if soon doesnt come soon enough, can she hit you up for the rent? haha kidding! Thanks for the info, have a great weekend! πŸ™‚

  113. #291 by xeroxcopy on 2011.11.19 - 2:07 am

    Great to hear There is getting close to re-opening.

  114. #292 by _Overscore on 2011.11.19 - 12:30 am


  115. #293 by dakotaman on 2011.11.19 - 12:18 am

    We’re almost There……

    Thanks, Team P!


  116. #294 by Merry Prankster on 2011.11.18 - 11:54 pm

    You haven’t even opened the doors and you’re already thinking about punitive measures? Anyways, There looks great.

    • #295 by David H on 2011.11.20 - 4:45 pm

      If by punitive, you mean banned for being <18, then yes, most of the previous posts about There have discussed this in detail.
      It is also correct that good management gets these things sorted before going live, as MW has been doing.

  117. #296 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.11.18 - 11:08 pm

    I have a similar question as Taelos asked. I noticed recently on a comment from either you or Samsyn when mentioning the world open that legacy avatars was put in parenthesis. On opening day for us, will the people we’re bringing still have a longer wait or will they be able to sign up the day we start paying? I assume they’d have to wait a little longer but want to know for sure so I know what to tell these people to expect. Half of them are trying imvu now cause the other site we used has just gotten so bad. Also about the AFK thing, this will so suck for me lol. So this means when I try to leave my avatar in world afk while I sleep to load on dial-up I’m going to get booted aint I? 😦 Even if I sit in a hoverboat and fly aimlessly while I sleep?

    • #297 by jimony on 2011.11.19 - 8:12 pm

      “Maybe they could sell new CD’s introducing There at Walmart’s? Make an avatar game that looks just like There and sell the game for say, Ten bucks and include a month trial of There with it. Use numbered avatars so everyone knows the avatar is a paid (because they bought the cd) trial. ” comment from Jimony, ThereianCommunity on Facebook

      I got that idea from a comment on Facebook, but the cd idea could also be a way for dial-ups to have the majority of files needed with out having to download them?
      The numbered avatar names would be disposed of as soon as the trial ends. The single player game could be a very simple one, maybe just letting someone drive in a race with bots competitors and decorate a house or something like that. They would activate the trial to actually get in There to see what it is all about.

      The game could take a while, so maybe in the meantime they could just sell a cd with the first install files to dial-ups when they are ready? Or provide a download site of all object files on a download page outside of There? You would login to with your avatar and go to the download page and select the sector your in maybe? Something like that. That would let you load files without getting kicked out for AFK.

      MW, is the AFK kick still going to be active when There is fully open?

      • #298 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.11.20 - 7:26 am

        The free trial idea will just lead to a bunch of abandoned avatars on the server again sadly. They said they don’t have a way to remove an avatar from the server, though I still feel there would have to be a way. It just may not be worth the process. It would probably be like starting the entire world over every time they need to delete a group of dead avatars But at least people with alt avatars can prevent their avatar names from ever being released as long as they reclaim them.

      • #299 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.11.20 - 7:39 am

        However a similar “Game” idea could be made in the place of a free trial. A game for one person that shows them a small version of the world, and has a course set up to teach them about There 3d online maybe even with video’s on it. The way AOL used to give away their CD’s with software via the mail maybe if the profits are good enough this would be a good way to advertise. There are various ways they could create a good hype without actual trials as the trials will only be abused. Even with age verification trials, a person could trial in the name of every adult they know.

      • #300 by jimony on 2011.11.20 - 2:17 pm

        This would be a paid trial, not a free trial. I don’t remember them saying they “can’t” remove avatar names from the server. That actually doesn’t make sense. It might be that it would take more resources, but if they reserve all avatar names starting with the word “guest” or something followed by a number, they could set up a macro to erase them every night or something. Each day the game guest would have to re=register his guest name to get back in and the registration info could go into a separate database that tracks the number of allowed registrations per cd.

      • #301 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.11.21 - 6:20 am

        Jimony they did say that they cannot delete avatars. I was thinking they could in facebook and a few ppl said otherwise, including MW. To my understanding the only way to remove an avatar from the server would be to totally wipe the server clean(start over) and that aint feasible for deleting an avatar every now and then.

  118. #302 by toufovou on 2011.11.18 - 10:24 pm

    So the first thing everybody who reads this post should do, is to install the new flash update…
    Just thought I’d mention it πŸ˜›

  119. #303 by 0ne1 on 2011.11.18 - 9:58 pm

    MW, what about a tool that allows developers to transfer their submissions from an alt to another avatar? I have a few designs submitted under and old name, and it would be nice to transfer those developer items to my new name so I can list them in auctions or sell them from my new name. I know it’s possible. It would probably be best to do this before you link all the new avatar ID’s to the old developer items.

    • #304 by joeydantonio on 2011.11.19 - 7:17 am

      that would be amazing.

    • #305 by shaggy on 2011.11.29 - 12:28 pm

      This would be awesome I too have avatars that have things submitted that I would like to be all on one designer avatar.

  120. #306 by LeeLee on 2011.11.18 - 9:52 pm

    Awesome, thank you for the update! πŸ™‚

  121. #307 by Soosi on 2011.11.18 - 9:51 pm

    Close is very good!

  122. #308 by Sarah Monroe on 2011.11.18 - 9:48 pm

    Awesome news!

  123. #309 by Taelos Katran on 2011.11.18 - 9:47 pm

    When will we be able to bring new members in? Many of us have spread out into other Virtual Worlds over the past year and found new friends. Those friends we want to bring to There to share the experience. Who knows? Maybe some will stay. Can’t wait for the server full feature to be turned off ‘wink……….. For sure before the new year right?

  124. #310 by jimony on 2011.11.18 - 9:47 pm

    Almost Perfect? But YowWho is Completely Perfect isn’t it?
    On the AFK feature, can you discriminate between those who truly are AFK or those who are simply doing other things in There that may show them as busy?

    • #311 by Michael Wilson on 2011.11.18 - 10:01 pm

      We made sure specifically that those who were, say, rearranging inventory for example, would not be “AFK”.

      • #312 by jimony on 2011.11.18 - 10:20 pm

        Now THAT is Perfect! πŸ™‚

      • #313 by Francis_7 on 2011.11.19 - 7:14 am

        Ah! Good! Moving inventory around does take a lot of time.

  125. #314 by Thumdar on 2011.11.18 - 9:41 pm

    Close is good!

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: