Re-Clarification: Don’t Sell There Virtual Goods for Real Money

It’s been brought to our attention that some people are selling things in exchange for real U.S. $ – usually via PayPal.

Don’t do this. It’s against the rules. It will get you banned, for life.

There are at least two reasons for this rule:

  1. Since the transaction doesn’t go through There, there’s no way for us to control it. Unlike an Auction or Trade, we can’t guarantee that you’ll get the goods for the money, or you’ll get the money for the goods.
  2. It deprives There of income, which, as you can see from the cashflow, we need. We don’t need the money to line our pockets. We need it to stay open. So, if you do this, you’re stealing from There, and from your fellow members.

I’ll have the monthly numbers in a bit.

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  1. #1 by Xcal Urradio on 2012.07.22 - 6:18 am

    My only concern is the future …How are you going to keep the economy in there.com “reasonable and stable”? Fact is if there.com has no outlet to liquidate the Tbux you will find yourself with a devalued economy, Auctions and resale items will shoot up in price. My Suggestion… Have a Data Base of Registered re-sellers and take a percentage of what they sell. There.com makes money (Sure not as much as selling yourself but never the less you will make money) and Thereians make money.

  2. #2 by Cellophane Thereian on 2012.07.09 - 10:29 am

    …suggest you save $10 a month…

  3. #4 by Cellophane Thereian on 2012.07.09 - 10:23 am

    (A flourish of music created with an old fashioned ‘triangle’ here)

    Attention: There is a community presented by the creators to enhance an individual’s existence in any given virtual world. Long, long ago in another time, my avatar existed in There.com and made tons of cash selling TBux on the ‘Black and Blue Market’ while me, myself and I ran stats for research on live human lab rats. While I gathered stats on what people did while logged in world and on how much money it appeared they might be making/spending in relation to how much money they were probably taking in from disability or unemployment and how much love they wished they could make with the people behind the avatars they fell in love with and how many of those relationships never came to fruition due to things like distance and a very wide age spread and lack of chemistry and while we all bought and sold Hoods for profit and while everyone was going cray-cray trying to figure out how to make money off of the hours they spent in There- There itself was slowly pulled to an unglamorous death across rough gravel while tied to the back of a train with heavy twine as all the money we pocketed was sucked out of There.com, thus sucking it dry, thus making it dead.

    One day (or afternoon, or evening depending on where you reside on Planet Earth) There.com went black. Was put to sleep. Was laid to rest.

    All the while, while I was building Hoods and sucking information from people and doing what I was paid to do and unbeknownst to me, falling in love with There.com, I’d have conversations while trotting along on my High Horse of The Full-Time Paid Researcher and Observer and Amateur Hood Decorator and Developer and Spy- I had conversations while playing Spades, while Ridge Running, while hooking up in Word Grove or Questing on the Rim- about the fact there was no effing way There was ever going to stay open with so many people sucking the money out of the coffers.

    Seasoned, Know Everything Developers and Beta Types laughed at all five of my Avatars as they either typed out such words/observations/concerns in chat bubbles or used voice to, well, voice this opinion. As the close of There.com drew near, I smelled it like fire on the horizon.

    My Spades and Gin buddies began to shun me. They didn’t like the fact I thought There was coming to an end or that I wanted to talk about it. I found that people really didn’t understand that there was no way the creators were making money. I had to listen to so many, many of the Glorified and Respected Slap each Others Back Pontificates peel with laughter when we’d wax all virtually philosophical on the topic of economics in relation to There.com when I said (and I quote myself):

    ‘These guys have to be going broke.’

    There are virtual worlds created with the option of making money in mind. Then there are virtual worlds created with the idea of the world itself in mind. The Tao of Cellophane begins with this paragraph:

    ‘In the beginning, there were pixels. And then came Inspiration. And then came the juxtaposition, the courtship and the lovemaking of the two.’

    When There.com announced the impending close, I immediately felt as if some carpet was yanked out from under me. I didn’t think of the money I’d lose- not only in selling TBux or getting in on developing stuff- but from my own employers- employers rich run through with University Dollars. I didn’t think of anything remotely tied to money. I thought of Groove. Of Papa Bare. Of Percy and Softly and their romance. I thought of Word Grove and the time the people there got together to screw with me. I thought of my There Homes and of Maidenflight and Aziti Prime (I’m just now putting the finishing touches on a novel I’ve written inspired by that Hood). I thought of Dream, Tumbleweed, There Games and the Charity Tree Lot I’d never rent.

    I left There.com when the close was announced. I was saddened by the close and didn’t want to jump off of any ramp with others at the time There blinked out. I didn’t want to say good-bye.

    I ran to Second Life and if you knew Aahya Core- you know I set about making just over five figures buying and selling land through her. If the woman in China could do it well so bloody damn could I!

    In Second Life I made only a handful of ‘friends’. I stopped by Papa’s and gave a limp go at playing with the old Ginstar crowd… My avatar and another poet-type avatar fell in love. I got into playing poker with the French until the little fucking frogs pulled a table and ripped me off. (I made over $4,ooo US bucks off of them, so don’t cry for me Argentina!).

    After a time I left Second Life and virtual worlds in general.

    In my real world life I realized that Second Life- while I thought her a gift horse- was only my rebound romance after There.com and the close ripped apart my wittle virtual heart.

    Much has changed in my life and my disposition and circumstance since the close of There.com.

    This time around, if OSX ever sees the light of day, I will work to create and to help keep her alive.

    Some people- this is cray-cray too- but some people learn of their own greed and smallness when they lose everything or when someone dies or when (insert something tragic here).

    I learned of my own issues with greed, selfishness and the complexity of coming to terms with such shining character traits in the early part of my fourth decade when a delightful and whimsical virtual world closed because there wasn’t enough money laying around to pay for the servers, the salaries of the employees and the carrying costs of keeping that world alive. I could add a few more paragraphs and parallel these sentences and their meaning to our planet but why go into all out depressing banter? 🙂

    If you need or want money and want or need to make it from your keyboard via a virtual world I suggest you sell four pounds of flesh and go to that other world to make that money.

    I also suggest you $10 bucks a month, the creativity you wish to share wholeheartedly just because you CAN and your true virtual essence for There.com.

    Sometimes it’s a very, very good thing to add to a world Pro Bono. To understand that there are places worth investing invisible things like heart, soul and serendipity in with no concern about the almighty payback. To cherish places you will never really lay your feet upon, never really draw a breath of the air that doesn’t exist and never really know the new car smell of that buggy or hoverboat.

    Don’t be stupid like I was.

    Get it right this time.

    Because if There.com closes again- I really think it will be the last we see of this world.

    After all- how many times have you given everything you had to a relationship that in the end only seemed important to you? How long did it take for you to realize that if you were the only one who really cared if the relationship stayed alive or died- that maybe you were being a bloody fool?

    Really? Greed setting in already? Think of how you felt when the world went black.

    Think of how I feel- will I ever get back in on OSX? Will There make it that far?

    I don’t log in to There.com on my piss-ass Sony because I don’t want my heart broken again. I could ship my Sony off to Papa tomorrow and for the trade of a phone call and a hundred bucks or so I could be there with you- rolling in the deep, as it were. But I’m waiting for a sign. That sign is OSX. It There makes it to the point we in the uber minority are worth investing in then I will feel like I can return and relax.

    With all the babbling about buy-backs and such I think sometimes I’m a fool again to think I will ever see There.com pop up onto the screen of this MAC.

    We’ll see.

    Yes class, we will see…

    • #5 by xeroxcopy on 2012.07.11 - 1:08 am

      This is why you shouldn’t do drugs kids… your brain gets mushy when you get older.

      • #6 by Cellophane Thereian on 2012.07.11 - 12:00 pm

        No drugs. Just heart and soul. Something that only shows and regularly only develops when drugs are not a part of your life. This is why you shouldn’t do drugs kids. You begin to look over the finer points of the decades that pass behind you… 😀

        As for blowhards, you’re very boring… ‘wink

  4. #7 by PlAiNHaVoC on 2012.07.04 - 9:31 pm

    What workaround is there for “commissioned” work? Say if someone wants something made, but wants to be able to submit as theirs. Is there a way to do this with Therebucks? If not, would it still be frowned upon to do a third party transaction for the work?

    • #8 by xeroxcopy on 2012.07.11 - 1:08 am

      This is why you shouldn’t do drugs kids… your brain gets mushy when you get older.

  5. #9 by Robert Ricci on 2012.07.03 - 4:43 pm

    Have seen many a game where people ” needed ” or ” felt ” THEY needed to generate a paycheck simply because THEY produced an item in a virtual world and wanted to cash in virtual ( fake/non-existing currency ) for real money…..Hey if that type of game allows that…fine…..if not, then deal with it…..Oh and by the way I have been on both sides of the track and to me it didn’t matter because I was not using a game to generate a paycheck…

  6. #10 by AgapeLove on 2012.07.03 - 1:07 pm

    When I was last on There ,I noticed that my 3 juke boxes on three different stations , on 1 lot and 2 pazes in different areas weren’t working. I also checked with a different computer they were all dead ; I just wondered if anyone else had any trouble ?

  7. #11 by Sassybeme There on 2012.07.03 - 8:47 am

    When I started cashing in t-bucks from There I kept that more of a hobby level. Before that time I was learning. I’m lucky anyone bought from a learner to begin with. But selling T’s did make for a nice incentive to keep going. I don’t think I ever ran out of ideas of what to make. Just how to make them with spec’s so I could finish the ideas.
    Point of post-
    It sounds to me, by post made by you Wilson. You don’t plan on any type of buy back program this time around. Kind of more maybe ‘hire per art’ like for events or some thing? Or just not going to give a bigger hint at this time?
    You know making a little would be nice. But I’m really more Wanting to submit again rather then caring if I can cash in.

    Now if we could have the same amount of Nobjects per allowed drops in a paz I could wait more happily for you to set up the developer tools. You’d all be seeing a bunch of yellow box’s, where I’d be seeing what I want. 😀

  8. #12 by Robin Lynn on 2012.07.03 - 4:00 am

    Thanks for the update, MW ! ‘cheers

  9. #13 by Hugsie on 2012.07.02 - 8:23 pm

    This is the number one reason why I stopped playing There back in 2006, and kept playing Second Life. I need the money from the items I create and sell. and the services I provide. Here it seems as if anything created is given to you guys outright, and I lose all my rights and you keep the money. eeF’ that. I have to pay you guys to create/submit things into There, I have to pay you to sell them, I have to pay you for every copy I bring into world, and I what little money i do make from it, I’m not allowed to do anything with it! So again eeF’ that! So once you get all your There-chickens (Clucky!) in a row, and you can then set up some sort of T$ exchange system to buy and sell T$ for real life money, let me know. Otherwise eeF’ it.

    • #14 by Michael Wilson on 2012.07.02 - 8:26 pm

      “Here it seems as if anything created is given to you guys outright, and I lose all my rights and you keep the money”

      That is incorrect. You don’t lose any rights to your creations. That has never been true for There, and never will be.

    • #15 by NathanAvis on 2012.07.04 - 5:01 pm

      not to detract from the discussion (not that there is much of one going on here) but i think your avatars are overcompensating big time, hugsie. would dread to see what you look like in real life!

      oh well, if it doesn’t get posted at least the blog owner will get a chuckle 🙂

  10. #16 by Truck Thereian on 2012.07.02 - 2:35 pm

    “some people are selling things in exchange for real U.S. $ – usually via PayPal”
    I remember this happened in the past with funzones and club houses.
    There was a yard sale last month where the person wanted real $$ for her stuff, and she said all her stuff was rare and no one had it (Roflmao)
    For a friends buggy that he made she wanted 75 buck for it and 300 bucks for a club house. Wish i could find the chat log. if i find it i’ll pass the name to feedback..
    Look all im not beening a nark but i want there to stay open this is my home away from home.
    When the buy back is back and running the buy back will help pay my monthy dues. and the rest of my t-buxs will stay in there for the 21st floor

  11. #17 by Mark on 2012.07.02 - 1:34 pm

    We need answers on the Developer Program Michael. What’s going on? Why is it taking this long? Why are we waiting this long? I’m paying my $10 to get everything back and going, not to keep the World the way it is, and float on the developer system. Get it together

    • #18 by Michael Wilson on 2012.07.02 - 1:39 pm

      If you have been following along on this Blog, and at Thumdar.com, we’ve been updating people regularly on what’s going on, what all we had to do, and what our current resource limitations are.

      If you’ve impatient with waiting, I encourage you to cancel your membership and come back at a later time if you wish. Your avatar will and possessions will still be there should you choose to return.

  12. #19 by Jeff on 2012.07.02 - 9:23 am

    Does that include paying people real dollars via paypal for services they perform like building racetracks if we don’t know how to do it ourselves?

    • #20 by Hugsie on 2012.07.02 - 8:31 pm

      i have no problems with paying for everything with T$.. heck a lot of ppl were paying for their There.com memberships with the T$ they made by exchanging it for USD (this was back in the old days). But until there’s a T$ exchange system, which i think is more important than bringing back the developers program, people aren’t going to bother. I’m not trying to say the developer program shouldn’t come back, but i think a proper T$ exchange system should be put in place FIRST, otherwise there’s no incentive FOR the developer program.

    • #21 by NathanAvis on 2012.07.04 - 5:04 pm

      Hmm probably, Jeff. Although you aren’t selling any goods the service you are offering is being offered through There and it’s likely Makena would request you inject tbux into the Thereconomy and pay the person that way for a service. In the past I offered services for dollars (no jokes, please! building services!!) but as they haven’t clarified this particular scenario for There 2 I have stayed away from offering such things.

  13. #22 by arbatas on 2012.07.02 - 5:24 am

    Its horrible what people do. Its all about money. Im sure you can find out. All you got to do is find out a name approx date this was to take place and read there chats. Chats I know are saved, just like phone companies. I agree keep the $$$ in there!!! I hope whoever is doing this gets caught.

  14. #23 by Jane Meyers on 2012.07.02 - 4:12 am

    I may be mistaken, but I recall somebody saying that There is going to make it so that people such as designers neighborhood owners will be able to make a real life profit off of the money they make. Is this true? Or am I just hearing rumors?

    • #24 by Michael Wilson on 2012.07.02 - 8:09 am

      We said “We were looking into ways to compensate designers in Real $ for their work”.

      • #25 by Escape on 2012.07.02 - 11:42 am

        I may be wrong, but I thought you said you was looking into ways to buy tbucks back from anyone who wanted to sell them!

      • #26 by Jane Meyers on 2012.07.02 - 11:45 am

        Oh alright. Thank you for clarifying. I hope that works out!

  15. #27 by Soledadnegativa on 2012.07.02 - 2:57 am

    Thanks For The Update…

  16. #28 by chipfrodo on 2012.07.02 - 12:51 am

    I sure wish there was a better way to buy there bucks. Since there started with pay pal I have not been able to buy them. I can’t even pay for my scription I have been gifted mine because of it. Can’t pay rent on my lots so that means I don’t have one. This problem is causing alot of trouble for many ppl I have spoken to. I won’t sell stuff for cash or buy with cash you don’t know if it is a safe thing to do being you really don’t know if it is some type of scam. Until there comes up with a better way to buy tbucks I am stuck in the dark with no place to go. With everyone giving things away no one seems to be buying in auctions. so you can’t make any tbucks that way. Hope you come up with a better way to buy there bucks.

  17. #29 by There on 2012.07.01 - 11:01 pm

    Good Job

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