Quick update on Submissions Guidelines: There is now 18+

I wanted to quickly update folks on the Submission Guidelines, since we haven’t had time to update the TOS/Submission Guidelines:

There is now 18+

  • Restrictions on “Blood and Gore” and “Adult oriented language” no longer apply, as long as they don’t involve:
    • Hate speech.
    • Racisim.
    • Explicit descriptions of lewd acts (pretty much if the description explicitly involves a body part you can’t expose in public, it falls into this category)
    • Illegal acts or encouraging illegal activity
    • Language reflecting personal attacks on another person (“I’m going to assault you” is a personal attack).
  • The Fig Leaf still applies, every pixel of it. This isn’t P0rn world, folks
  • Using Alts to game the Peer Review system is strictly Forbidden, a.k.a “Common Sense”
  • Using Bullying tactics against reviewers is strictly Forbidden, a.k.a “Common Sense”
  • Using Bullying, or influence to garner negative reviews is also Forbidden, a.k.a “Common Sense”

Basically, it boils down to “Common Sense”

If someone could get away with wearing the product in real life, it’s probably not breaking the TOS, the exception being, of course, the Fig Leaf guideline, which is MORE restrictive than real life.

Let me cite a few examples which have come to light:

  • There’s a shirt being reviewed which says something like “And I shaved my balls for this?”. While this may not be to many people’s taste, it doesn’t violate the guidelines, and should not be rejected.
  • There are products out there which have rules in the description about who the seller would prefer to buy them (it’s a “Team Shirt”). Not only is there no way for the seller to enforce this, this is not against the guidelines, and shouldn’t be rejected because of it.
  • There are products which clearly violate the “Hollister” brand and look, and people are justifying their approval because “products like that have been approved before”. We have the right to recognize that was a mistake, and those products will be recalled, and their purchase prices refunded. So, enjoy ’em while you have ’em.

We know that some people won’t like some of the product which are being approved, but we all see things every day in real life we don’t like, and find ways to deal with them.

We’re working on improvements which will render “Ignored” Avatars in Newbie clothes, which will give you another tool “tailor” what you see in the world to your taste. (We decided that rendering them as skeletons, or making them invisible, would not work well, and cause all kinds of other problems).

As several people have pointed out, the review system is to review compliance, not personal preference. We realize that many of you may not like some items, or may not like the rules in the descriptions, but if they’re not forbidden in the TOS, you shouldn’t reject a product because of it. Just like the real world, tastes vary.

99.9% of the Peer Reviews have been GREAT, and we’re processing far more products faster than we did before. As with anything else new, there will be a period of confusion, and certainly misunderstandings. As we learn more, we can improve the system, and how we use it. As long as people continue to be Civil and grown up about it, we think it’s going to work out great.

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  1. #1 by Whitney on 2012.11.13 - 2:48 pm

    I really Dislike the New there , i miss the old i lost everything which was unfair. ๐Ÿ˜ฆ i want the old there back!

  2. #2 by jodie780 on 2012.11.02 - 4:16 pm

    ive given up my subs ran out and wont be renewed there seems to have more kids than before and im fed up with the boredom and childish behaviour such a shame i used to love doing quest etc but seems it werent enough to keep me occupied goodbye everyone take care

  3. #3 by Mimi There on 2012.11.02 - 7:25 am

    Been just sitting and watching, and learning, all I can say is IF I was a new designer, you all have scared me off enough so that I wouldnt even attempt to produce my ideas in THERE. After joining this review “group”, I have seen nothing but bickering between those of you that I admired as designers. Happy to just be a consumer at this point and happy to have the ability to “ignore” anyone that I find offensive.

    • #4 by Deb Sassybeme on 2012.11.03 - 11:52 pm

      Mini, you don’t know me. I can assure you working a program to design with sure does not a character make. I myself could be evil, sweet or both. You really don’t know. If you would choose to ignore me by chance. Fine. They provide you with that choice here. But I would ask you just the same to please not over judge the bickering.

      As a reviewer I am asked to approve of things I am not happy with allowing in game. Much the same as before there closed. I detest references of calling us women bitches. Yet it was often approved on clothing and or buggys and such a like. I oppose the allowing references to marijuana. Yet I have to oppose tobacco. With understanding the reason is personal to Mr. Wilson. (note the MR) I have just as much personal reason to not want drugs referenced to. We all have our stories. Not to get sappy, but my ex just died recently due to smoking weed and over doing proscription medicines. Overly stoned your face may not use the natural reflex to lift your face away from the pillow. I have other stories that mean little if the guidelines except what I disagree with. So to review I have to put personal feelings aside and to do a fair review to what is allowed.

      Now I’m told that because they are volunteers they can not be forced to review all items they disagree with. Which also triggers favoritism. Review only friends submissions. Which alts seem to be being used to approve both friends passing copyright. OR friends not committing copyright. Just so their stuff goes through quickly. Not treating all fairly.

      Now an example I’ve given to someone I’ve had disagreement with over this subject. Your volunteering at a soup kitchen to feed the homeless… You decide you don’t’ want to serve people with beards. Watch people eat with beards is gross with that food stuck to their face. NOW do you think that would be ok to single out bearded people? OR should all be fed equally. I bet the facility would rather you wash dishes then choose who got fed. Some hungry person is going to be mad.

      Now if this does not shed some light on the bickering for you to understand the why. LET me ask you. When THERE.com closed, how did that make you feel to have your play taken away from you by others? I’ll just bet it was almost the same for me. And then have added to by THERE.com being open, and my play had just been taken away. I can’t play as I want but I still pay as if I could. Great paying some one for abuse hey?

      NO one likes to see others fight. Least of all me. Some things are worth fighting for, some are not. I would much rather people be allowed to say curse words if they prefer. I sure would not like to see the -C- word on a avatars clothing or buggy. After all, I don’t show my -C- in public. But I don’t pay the bills. And I don’t look for ways of Forcing the one who does to obey my wishes of what I think There.com should be. I can only nag so much. I can only hope the moon shifts correctly for us that he again changes his mind.

      Now this is already much longer then I would ever prefer. This IS (Mr.) Wilson’s personal blog. I shouldn’t treat it like a forum. So I have to appoligize for having done so. I detest forums.

  4. #5 by thereuser on 2012.11.01 - 1:16 am

    Many tee shirt shops on the jersey boardwalks were destroyed during the recent weather events on the east coast, what we are seeing is the spirit of those tee shirt shops spilling onto the shores of Thereยฎ.

    Seriously everyone when your buying more tbucks remember to give some to the disaster relief. Red Cross or your choice… just make sure they are legit.

  5. #6 by Stephanie Marie Soto on 2012.10.30 - 10:13 am

    Blood & Gore <- This will make a lot of therians I know extremely happy. Including myself woot!

  6. #7 by Deb Sassybeme on 2012.10.30 - 8:10 am

    Great! Now fools are going to pull their reviews if we follow your guild lines. And you think they are adults here? This is childish crap is getting old. I’ve never liked having marijuana in game. Never denied the right to others having it since it was always allowed. I don’t like seeing the F bomb on clothing. Never liked the B word on junk before. STILL was always allowed whether I liked it or not. I DEALT with it. Why, Cause it entertained others. I don’t rule everyone. And no one rules me. I can just not ever submit again. Which I will hate! BUT I sure can approve of EVERY dang thing they dislike that is ALLOWed. And not loose a single damn tbuck over it.

  7. #8 by Bearclaw on 2012.10.29 - 6:14 pm

    Iggyed ppl…………..I do miss the stick figures for “Way back when”

  8. #9 by Grumps08 ( Shaun ) on 2012.10.29 - 12:45 pm

    illegal acts or encouraging illegal activity << i was wondering where you stand on all the drug related items such as * Weed * still in the world of there from the old days, i see it at least as premoting it, high tide you removed all of it, just my opinion and make no apology to the junkies and wannabies out there.

    • #10 by Michael Wilson on 2012.10.29 - 12:50 pm

      I’ve covered this. Our stance on these items is no different than it was before.

  9. #11 by FireTamer on 2012.10.29 - 11:52 am

    Being a member who pays for 3 accounts to be open every month since DAY 1 OF OPENING, (Now 4) I think i’ll cancel all of them, the reason?

    Example, look at the Review Something page, and the types of language thats out there. I know kids spend lots of money on this game which helps There, but us members who are actually of age, don’t need to see how kids talk nowadays, on shirts and pants and props, honestly.

    It makes me sick to see some stuff thats in for review, and that There will ALLOW to be displayed around game. Ask anyone who is older than 30, (id say) I could almost guarantee they wont want that all over the game, and nobody who is mature and old enough, will buy that, either.

    Now I know this will be read and ignored, but It really shouldn’t. I have spent more than 1000 dollars in real life, and I feel I shouldn’t have after looking at some of this stuff.

    And this all of a sudden change in rules because of the stuff that was submitted, is wrong, too. I will NEVER in a million years buy that inappropiate, disgusting childish stuff in auction, but if it makes the kids happy it’s being approved, unfortunately.

    I am not trying to make a argument or hatred against anybody, but that stuff in review should NEVER be approved.

    • #12 by Michael Wilson on 2012.10.29 - 12:04 pm

      As a reminder, if you have proof that someone is under 18 (chat log(s), FRAPS, etc), please send it in. It doesn’t take us long at all
      to moderate them pending proof of age.

    • #13 by soede on 2012.10.29 - 12:31 pm

      Perhaps you can look at it this way…Someone who wears the stuff that you personally find offensive, despite being allowed under There’s submission guidelines, is providing you with a quick an easy identifier that they’re not the type of person you’d want to spend time with.
      You could also undertake to promote stuff that you DO feel is worthy to make it into world. I’m sure there are many designers that would appreciate a little positive PR about their items that are geared towards more mature tastes. =)

    • #14 by Amxscott on 2012.10.30 - 3:25 pm

      I have to agree with FireTamer except I have 6 accounts. I logged in yesterday and while my inventory was loading I went to review a few things and thought I logged into the wrong place. I have been in There since 2003 and nothing has really bothered me as much as seeing all that F*** stuff up for review. As it is almost the first of the month and I need to make the first of several credit card transactions required to have enough There Bucks to pay my bills for the month seeing stuff like that really makes me wonder if this is the place to be anymore. I just do not see what value to the There world letting that stuff in world brings. Yes I guess the ignore feature that renders newbie clothing might help and I can just ignore everyone plus ban anyone from my hoods that wears that stuff but again is it really beneficial to There to have it in the first place.I guess only time will tell. Either some of us get used to it and accept or work around it or go away.

      • #15 by Michael Wilson on 2012.10.30 - 3:40 pm

        Interesting.

        On the one hand, we have people who are disappointed we don’t allow cigarettes, which do kill people.

        On the other hand, we have people who are disappointed we don’t allow various words, which don’t kill people.

        You can certainly see how confusing this is.

        My view (and I’m allowed to change my mind) is that people will get bored with this (especially when they realize it gets them ignored) and we’ll see much less of it. After all, how often do you see those things in real life? And Why?

      • #16 by Amxscott on 2012.10.30 - 4:31 pm

        I see your point and only time will tell.
        Your right, that kind of stuff rarely shows up in RL who knows in VL
        I like your ignore feature so that those of us who really do not want to see that stuff can make it go away.

        Anyway back to working on my hood rather than dwell on this.

        Scott ๐Ÿ™‚

  10. #17 by MattDillon2005 on 2012.10.29 - 11:13 am

    I think double barrel paint ball shotguns would be cool,two paintballs at once.

  11. #18 by Valhala on 2012.10.29 - 8:37 am

    I’m wondering if all the marijuana items will be recalled. Just a thought since it is still an illegal drug in most places.

    • #19 by Michael Wilson on 2012.10.29 - 8:47 am

      No, they won’t.

      “Marijuana” is not illegal in itself. The laws vary on what’s illegal – possession (in varying amounts), growing, selling, or some or none of the above – vary from state to state.

      If we banned Marijuana items, we’d also have to ban all alcohol related items, since alcohol is illegal in some circumstances, too.

      However, items which encourage illegal activity – “Grow Marijuana, and Sell It to Teenagers” – would be prohibited, since, well, they’re encouraging an illegal activity.

      • #20 by Deb Sassybeme on 2012.10.29 - 9:43 am

        Your making things so confusing for me. There are Marijuana plants in there. Have been for a long time. I know how laws vary about use and such. I guess I would have to google over how legal bongs are state to state. I don’t have expert or life experience knowledge on the subject. Unless you choose to grandfather in old items as you have before. Marijuana is still more illegal then tobacco. So surely you can see how confusing you are to someone trying to review items properly. Or is that the intent? lol

  12. #21 by arbatas on 2012.10.29 - 6:27 am

    Well thats good but you’re always going to get dis approval from many people, however there is work around and things that will govern the issue(s). We as people have things we don’t like to see or hear and they’re many places that allows this and not allow this. Just like in real world we make adjustments and move on.

  13. #22 by Deb Sassybeme on 2012.10.29 - 5:45 am

    Really there is *little* I dislike about this process. After a night of little sleep (silly,yes) I think I can make it clear.

    Some have done a great job catching copyright or theft, or trademark. Once reviewed however, they don’t let it go. They return
    to the item they rejected and banter back with the designer. That shows to me little faith in the system. Now
    if I reject an item I feel has copyright material. I flag it with a rejection. Is that rejection a tag to be manually approved?
    IF so, then one review is all that is needed. AND if it is tagged for manual then if reviewed by someone employed and
    excepted. I have to be adult enough to except it. So should others.
    What I dislike reading is … “I will make sure others reject it as well.” Is that not gaming/ganging as well?
    Who has the right to tell others HOW to review an item if they are not employed by the company?

    The other complaint would be the constant going back to a rejected review to badger the designer.
    Not that if someone stole from another member I don’t care to defend them. I don’t blame anyone for being upset
    their work was stolen. However, should they not send in a email to feedback about the theft? Why do they not loose
    points for badgering another member on the review page? It is not just theft they behave this way for, it is copyright items as well. What a waste of time when other items need reviewed as well.

    I have no clear answers as to how items are being scored to go through. Maybe there is a decided reason for this. However, I do hope items that have been tagged with a violation are manually approved. Either way I think some grownups need to trust the system to REmove items of violation. I myself would prefer if they keep the drama in their forums rather then on review item pages.

    • #23 by soede on 2012.10.29 - 10:36 am

      At he beginning I would not have thought that “making sure others reject it” would be required. As a result a whole number of my rejections that were in clear violation of the rules got through because no one else bothered to check them. This proved to me very strongly that alerting others about a possible violation is crucial while there are so few reviewers who are willing to take a stand and reject. Accusations of ganging up on people to review are unfortunate in this case as those of us who are doing it are feeling more like we’re the few ‘holding the line’.
      Harassing a designer should never be allowed, but I’ve heard more than a handful of rumours about people who are in clear violation and KNOW it complaining that people are harassing them about their reviews. Hard to separate the harassed from the whiners except on a case by case basis =P

      • #24 by Deb Sassybeme on 2012.10.29 - 12:27 pm

        Soede, at this one point I have to disagree with you. I don’t feel you have the right to tell others to reject an item. Nor do I. I think it should be flagged at one violation. Reviewed by the one staff member reviewing.. testing.. taking the beating before it is approved. OR it is harassing. Not that possibly all should have had marks for violation. IF you catch something, great! Every thing great about that. Telling others to join in and do the same is wrong. What if you were wrong in your decisions? IF something shouldn’t go through, email Feedback. Get a verified or not email back from them. Know you were correct and them pull the offending item from world. And if they choose to leave it in game except it..Leave the worry to them since Wilson wants to be confusing on his rules. ๐Ÿ˜› (<adult sarcasm)

      • #25 by Michael Wilson on 2012.10.29 - 12:30 pm

        The points about not telling other people how to review items are correct. You should just accept or reject the item, comment as appropriate, and let the system do it’s job. Others will make their own judgements, which is how it’s supposed to work.

      • #26 by Michael Wilson on 2012.10.29 - 12:31 pm

        Oh wait, I forgot to sign my reply

        “Wilson”

        (spoken in a tone of sarcasm for all ages)

      • #27 by soede on 2012.10.30 - 12:00 pm

        If you’ll reread my post I quite clearly said I wanted other people to “check them” and that I was “Alerting others to a possible violation”. In no way do I support telling others to reject something simply because I rejected it. In each case I expect others to actually LOOK at the offered information and make up their minds on their own.

  14. #28 by SunnyMusic on 2012.10.29 - 4:51 am

    Thank you for keeping every pixel of the Fig leaf requirement in place. ‘tu

  15. #29 by Dusky Rose on 2012.10.29 - 4:20 am

    I’d like someone make me a cigar so I can have a stogie while playing spades. Can we smoke in There yet?? :))

    • #30 by Michael Wilson on 2012.10.29 - 4:44 am

      I’m sorry, but no.

      • #31 by arbatas on 2012.10.29 - 6:31 am

        I agree NO! Why would anyone entice smoking sheesh see enough of it in RL (suffers Lung disease) cause of smokers. Blames parents and second hand smokers for my ilness.

      • #32 by Deb Sassybeme on 2012.10.29 - 6:48 am

        I’m not sure I understand the answer you gave to this. Could you please explain? Smoking is legal of the age of 18. This world is now of 18+. I’m not trying to make an argument for the case. IF I was reviewing a cigar, I would let it approve if it did not show a brand name. Liquor is of age 21, so no to that for 18. Drugs are illegal at any age. Yes it is your world, your rules. I’m just asking why was this your choice.

      • #33 by Michael Wilson on 2012.10.29 - 6:49 am

        Sometimes the CEO just gets to make the rules. This is one of those times.

      • #34 by Deb Sassybeme on 2012.10.29 - 7:23 am

        Okay, thank you for that reply. I’ll make a note to self. Tobacco is still illegal in THERE.

  16. #35 by shanghei on 2012.10.29 - 2:45 am

    i know people have had mixed reactions to this process.
    i was given some constructive criticism in the reviews of my first submission, along with an offer of help, which i more than happily took !!!
    i was able to improve my submission (which i cancelled and re-submitted with changes).
    instantly upon cancellation my tbux were back in my inventory so i was able to immediately re-submit !!!
    now am just waiting…. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #36 by Dusky Rose on 2012.10.30 - 1:37 pm

      Can we bar all large sugary drinks? Iโ€™m sure we all risk getting fat and diabetic from an extra large Rootburp like we would risk cancer and lung disease smoking a virtual cigar. Iโ€™m a little incensed at being at the mercy of arbitrary and capricious rules in a virtual world with attitudes patronizing our behavior and patrons becoming more antagonistic by the day in response to lack of forward progression in creativity. Whew, sorry, little rant explosion.

      • #37 by Michael Wilson on 2012.10.30 - 1:42 pm

        My mother died slowly and tragically from lung cancer, brought on by a lifetime of cigarette smoking.

        You can call me arbitrary and capricious, or whatever you want, but you’re free to take your business, and rants, elsewhere.

  17. #38 by DavyRocket on 2012.10.28 - 10:53 pm

    I would like to make a suggestion here. It seems we had an obvious troll signed up for the dev program that to my knowledge was banned. This person made some very bad comments to a few designs. My suggestion would be.. If a member is banned that comment be removed, or perhaps someone from staff remove it. My other suggestion would be a handful of voted in developers do all reviews. Voting would be done by the community. Mainly because I can see this getting way out of hand. Someone submit something knowing it would be rejected, asking many friends to approve it so it will slip through, the reported, now staff has to stop what they are doing to take care of that issue. Again this is just a suggestion with a “possible” scenario.

    • #39 by arbatas on 2012.10.29 - 6:29 am

      I have to agree!

    • #40 by soede on 2012.10.29 - 10:23 am

      I’m of the mind that we need more reviewers, but they have to be at least semi educated about copyright instead of my-friend-told-me-it-was-okay educated. Perhaps instead of voting them in there could be a tutorial they’d be required to complete. Another idea I’ve heard is that Reviewers should be required to have a certain number of approved submissions before they can review. At least they’d be a little familiar with how the templates work.

    • #41 by Dusky Rose on 2012.11.03 - 6:48 am

      Sorry, didn’t know this was about your mother. Thought it was a professional business related decision. My sincere apologies.

  18. #42 by Deb Sassybeme on 2012.10.28 - 10:04 pm

    I must repeat myself… I don’t know how Sonny did submissions as long as he had. It is not easy. As much as I appreciate getting some changes to reflect 18+. I have a little rant. (surprise look right?) I’m not able to keep track of alts and such. But I do see some people only reviewing certain peoples submissions. To me that is also gaming the process. How much score is needed to finally get something approved? Maybe more of us need a way to push people to review. Getting sales rolling.. people buying tbucks. That is all wonderful things. IF it taking longer to get things approved that just kills the joy of making things. You might be seeing different numbers from what I see I suppose. I see items lingering for some time before approval. And very few, not so long at all. I thought approval was going on auto. wrong?? Before we had at least 2 days out of the week to plan our items in. I don’t care how long you’ve designed stuff. You got excited when your stuff got in. Least for me it did. I made things for me for the most part. Not just about listing and making lots of tbucks.

    One minute I like this process.. next day I can get even more disappointed. I haven’t found that happy spot enough to deal with it yet. It is a rant cause I want my play things. And I wish for more help for Samysn. ๐Ÿ˜ฆ

    I do say thank you for the update. Most appreciated.

    • #43 by arbatas on 2012.10.29 - 6:34 am

      I honestly think if its for yourself then there should be a way to make it so you can’t list that item(s).

  19. #44 by Kontumnam on 2012.10.28 - 9:26 pm

    So `Fair Play` under copyright wont be accepted, as this is considered advertising a product in There. and There not getting revenue fro the companies?

    • #45 by Michael Wilson on 2012.10.28 - 9:31 pm

      “The Fair Use defense is a complete defense to copyright infringement and basically provides protection for such conduct based on the use of the copyrighted work as serving the public interest. It is meant to be used to encourage criticism, parody or commentary of copyrighted works”

      (from here).

      I can’t imagine a single case where a submission would fit those criteria, so “No”.

  20. #46 by PcMan Hoverboat Pilot on 2012.10.28 - 9:12 pm

    Just curious, but since blood and gore ban is being lifted, does that mean that hand held weapons (props) will be allowed? Not sure if that would fall under a violence category or not.

    I am loving the changes so far and the peer review system seems to be working great, so keep up the great work guys!

    • #47 by Michael Wilson on 2012.10.28 - 9:25 pm

      Given that “hand held weapons” are permitted in just about every other computer-based environment in existence intended for adults, it seems reasonable to allow them in There – after all, we all know that they’re not real, and that if they’re Ok in There, they’re still not OK in real life.

      That being said, rules about “Copyright” and “Trademark” STILL APPLY. I don’t care if you’re Clint Eastwood, you still can’t make a replica of a .357 Magnum in There, because that brand, and product, is owned by someone else.

      Finally, hand-held weapons which attempt to leverage real-life tragedies are forbidden. We’re just going to arbitrarily make that rule up, and enforce it. I’m pretty sure all grown-up, rational people will agree on that one.

  21. #48 by soede on 2012.10.28 - 8:40 pm

    It’s definitely been a learning experience on this end as well. Thanks for this post. I find it very encouraging despite the discouragements of sticking ones neck out to review against the points.

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