There Operating Costs

This is the start of the page where we will discuss what it (would) cost to re-open and run There. It was be an important part of our decision making process.

This will be filled in over the next week or so, but in the meantime a few ground rules:

  • Please do not ask “Well how many users did There have before?”, or “What did it cost to run There before?”, or “What was your phat cat salary before?” (it was $1/year), because we won’t answer them. They’re not important now, and we don’t want to open up a can of worms by digging them up now and answering every little question about “Why did you pay so-and-so so much then? THAT was why you had to close, wasn’t it!!!”.
  • Salaries are stated in aggregate. We won’t discuss individual salaries.
  • The people we’re employing are long-time employees of There, and are very loyal to the idea, the product, and the members. I’m comfortable and saying they’re some of the best in the business and are exactly where they need to be to make There successful. I won’t entertain discussions about their relative merits, nor their speculated salaries.
  • I’m sure there will be discussions about this-Cloud-provider-versus-Amazon, etc. At the end of the day, the differences in cost between them are not big enough (at this time) to make a difference, especially given Amazon’s amazing APIs and support facilities. The cost at this time to switch between Cloud providers to save a few (relatively) extra dollars isn’t justified.
  • IF we decide to re-open There, and IF it happens to make a profit, I don’t know what will happen to it yet. It may go into the bank for lean months. It may go towards marketing. It may go towards hiring more engineers, ops folks, or other specialized roles. It’s not decided yet, and there’s no sense in arguing about it yet.

I want everyone to remember that I’m not sure if anyone has ever done this before (exposing the costs it takes to run a company like this so transparently). I was reminded (and, not surprised) that Uru Online does this (though I couldn’t find it).

That being said, doing business this way is new to us (at least), and I hope everyone will respect this, and the bumps in the road we might hit in talking about it. We might, for example, find out we can’t legally talk about such-and-such, and have to suppress some level of detail in our data. It won’t be constructive for people to cry out “Conspiracy! Conspiracy!” if this (or anything else like this) happens. I think it should be clear to everyone by now that no one at Makena got rich off There or it’s members, and is planning to run off (again) with their money.

I will say that I won’t be revealing the details of the total investment in There, other than it’s in the tens of millions of dollars. I don’t think it’s fair to the investors for me to do that, nor is it important to this experience. Needless to say, if we could earn it back, it would be great.

That’s all for now!

********** Being Updated as of 08:00 MDT, 08/24/2012 **********

Item Projected Monthly Cost Actuals 01/2012 Actuals 02/2012 Actuals 03/2012 Actuals 04/2012 Actuals 05/2012 Actuals 06/2012 Actuals 07/2012 Actuals 08/2012 Actuals 09/2012 Actuals 10/2012 Actuals 11/2012 Actuals 12/2012
Headcount Related (1)
Blue Cross $4,300.00 $4,255.00 $8,628.00 $0.0 $11,820.00 $3410.00 $5107.00
Dental $400.00 $397.00 $397.00 $341.00 $341.00 $390.00 $749.00
Vision $115.00 $222.00 $111.00 $0.00 $0.00 $78.00 $50.00
Cell Phones $240.00 $190.00 $379.00 $191.00 $0.00 $473.00 $202.00 $202.00
Expenses $0.0 $0.0 $0.0 $0.0 $0.0 $0.0
Payroll EFT $26,000.00 $44,078.00 $25,735.00 $25,790.00 $29,525.00 $29,368.00 $29,090.00
ADP EFT $450.00 $624.00 $904.00 $319.00 $442.00 $399.00 $315.00
Other – 401K $512.00 $2413.00 $256.00 $256.00 $512.00 $512.00 $512.00
Total $33,517.00 $60,471.00 $39,742.00 $26,896.00 $43,183.00 $34,631.00 $36,205.00
Hosting Costs
Production EC2 $4,256.87 $4,339.73 $4,325.04 $4,367.36 $4,475.00 $4,311.38 $4,482.61
Sendgrid $90.25 $85.32 $66.41 $66.41 $46.27 $79.23 $79.43
Datasafe $1500.00 $1590.00 $0.00 $1590.00 $0.00 $0.00
Total Hosting Costs $4,347.12 $4,428.05 $4,391.45
Grand Total $31,039.00 $64.818.12 $44,170.05 $31,287.45
Subscriptions $0 $13,680.00 $13,880.00 $15,440.00 $15,040.00 $16,770.00 $17,950.00 $16,610.00
T$ Sales $0 $23,711.00 $33,538.00 $35,223.00 $27,157.00 $30,433.00 $30,897.00 $27,866.00
Total Income $37,391.00 $47,418.00 $50,663.00 $42,197.00 $48,811.00 $48,847.00 $44,496.00
Total Profit (Loss) 17,400.12 $3,247.95 $19,375.55

Last Update 2011.12.27 22:00 PM MST

Item Projected Monthly Cost Actuals 05/2011 Actuals 06/2011 Actuals 07/2011 Actuals 08/2011 Actuals 09/2011 Actuals 10/2011 Actuals 11/2011 Actuals 12/2011
Headcount Related (1)
Blue Cross $4,363.00 $4,363.00 $4,363.00 $4,363.00 $4,363.00 $4,363.00 $4,363.00 $4,363.00
Dental $397.00 $397.00 $397.00 $397.00 $397.00 $397.00 $397.00 $397.00
Vision $111.00 $111.00 $111.00 $111.00 $111.00 $111.00 $111.00 $111.00
Cell Phones $238.00 $238.00 $238.00 $238.00 $238.00 $238.00 $238.00 $238.00
Expense Vouchers $0.0 $0.0 $0.0 $0.0 $0.0 $0.0 $0.0 $0.0
Payroll EFT $25,787.00 $25,787.00 $25,787.00 $25,787.00 $25,787.00 $25,787.00 $25,787.00 $25,787.00
ADP EFT $362.00 $362.00 $362.00 $362.00 $362.00 $362.00 $362.00 $362.00
Other – 401K $1078.00 $1078.00 $1078.00 $1078.00 $1078.00 $1078.00 $1078.00 $3118.00
Total $32,366.00 $32,366.00 $32,366.00 $32,366.00 $32,366.00 $32,366.00 $32,366.00 $34,377.00
Hosting Costs
Production EC2 $4,770.00 $1,264.03 $2,002.95 $2,423.62 $3,089.71 $3,172.00 $3,838.00 $3,973.00
Total Hosting Costs $4,770.00 $1,264.03 $2,002.95 $2,423.62 $3,089.71 $3,172.00 $3,838.00 $3,973.00
Grand Total $31,039.00 $33,630.03 $34,368.95 $34,789.63 $35,455.71 $35,538.00 $36,204.00 $38,350.00
Subscriptions $0 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $11,580.00
T$ Sales $0 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $25,426.00
Total Income $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $37,006.00
Total Profit (Loss) ($31,039.00) ($33,630.03) ($34,368.95) ($34,789.63) ($35,455.71) ($35,538.00) ($36,204.00) ($38,350.00) ($1,344.00)

(1) 05/01/2011 Staffing is (1) Engineer, (1) Systems Administration, (1) P/T Customer Support, (1) P/T Accounting, (.5) Engineer (unpaid), (1) CEO (unpaid)

Notes on Comments

(1) Comments about unrelated subjects will not be approved on this page. For example, appeals to re-admit banned users, or admit people under 18 will not be approved.

(2) If you’re going to post comments about “D*** IT MICHAEL WILSON. MAKE THERE FREE LIKE IT USED TO BE” on this page, please be prepared to be criticized, lectured, and even laughed at by other commenters on this page.

(3) See the notes above about “Ground Rules”

  1. #1 by claudia on 2014.10.01 - 9:34 pm

    will in the future be free and premuime members like in the past

  2. #3 by Darius on 2013.11.09 - 8:51 am

    Can you make aviable with DaoPay please?

  3. #4 by JRz on 2013.10.24 - 11:51 am

    So is this going to be updated soon? (o.0)

  4. #5 by Tim on 2012.10.07 - 7:42 pm

    To Mr.Michael Wilson

    Over the years has grown into more than a game, it was once a community people could
    have fun, relax with friends,take a break from the stresses of life, or even par take in hobbies such as designing
    However ever since it reopened its almost like has lost that, essence, or spark that used to make
    people want to play more and more.It seems that its become more about meeting numbers, than actually providing
    that enjoyable community that previous There players have come to know and love.

    Some of you may think i’m trying to hate, or be negative, but i’m just saying it as it truly is.
    We understand that games such of this have a cost of running.
    We understand that one way or another those costs have to be met(subscriptions).
    But its almost like there is no sense of being thankful towards those payments.
    After a you pay the subscription you arrive in game and don’t receive even a free Tbuck or anything of that manner
    to let you know that your subscription is appreciated. Well known designers in the past also seem to be moving games,
    in search for a game that will give them that sense of belonging and satisfaction that once did. =/
    I dunno what happened to the old Michael Wilson but however from what I’ve seen throughout the year is that he has lost respect,
    respect for his fans, and respect for At times even replying honest question’sin an unprofessional manner in multiple occasions.

    I repeat i’m not trying to be disrespectful or be negative towards, i’m just saying things as they truly are.
    I hope that this post can be viewed upon positively and make become the community it once was =)

    • #6 by Tim on 2012.10.08 - 1:10 am

      cancel that i already got a reply, thanks =)

    • #7 by Serhan on 2014.06.07 - 12:55 am

      I lost my hope There will never be like an old

  5. #8 by Arbata on 2012.03.24 - 5:32 pm

    Its hard to tell there age sometimes unless they get excited and start saying htings any under age would. I htink for MW is to invest in an age required program like secondlife has where you have to prove your age. In secondlife its not required but for here it be a good thing to have to keep out the underage. If they break that rule then you can sue the parents.

  6. #9 by skelatore on 2012.03.04 - 5:56 am

    When will Skelatore be allowed back

  7. #10 by IndyLou on 2012.03.02 - 4:40 am

    Will this There Operating Costs page be updated monthly, quarterly, bi-annually or annually?

  8. #11 by lee_adama on 2012.01.10 - 11:02 pm

    im done trying to even get my legacy avatar registered let me know when you openthe world to new members

  9. #12 by jucamaru on 2012.01.06 - 8:56 pm

    its fine for me the 10 bucks for month,i just think u guys should get more ways to make easier payements like boku sms ( only paypal its not really easy to everyone.
    i dont have visa so i must work out a way to get in there again or find a friend to make that payement by paypal.
    nice to see there is back and cya there soon:)

  10. #13 by ex there on 2012.01.04 - 10:06 am

    i ok uninstalled this is not funny and i am not PayPal and othere people can there ok not more come onley members i am buy ok not for 10$ i am can ok not see how now is 10$ month = 120$ year and will not working on windows 7 so can your ok not good 3dchat of well 3dgame not run

    • #14 by Michael Wilson on 2012.01.04 - 1:12 pm

      I’m having some problems figuring out what you’re saying, but we need to know more than “ will not working on windows 7” to help resolve your problem.

      I can’t figure out “so can your ok not good 3dchat of well 3dgame not run” at all :-(.

    • #15 by blaux on 2012.01.05 - 7:54 pm

      what the fuck am I reading?

      • #16 by DDGQ on 2012.03.24 - 5:36 am

        Question of the century there blaux.
        What is this fuckery?

    • #17 by Koala Thereian on 2012.01.12 - 1:42 pm works just fine on windows 7 I ran it on win 7 before there closed and have run it just fine with reopening so not sure what you are talking about. we also run it with vista as well.

    • #18 by aztec3 on 2012.01.15 - 6:01 am

      Yoda…is you that???

    • #19 by Lee on 2012.01.27 - 8:07 am

      I’m running it on windows 7 as well..not a single issue with it…works perfectly fine.

  11. #20 by mrlittlebig on 2012.01.01 - 2:49 pm

    How do I cancel my subscription?

    • #21 by mrlittlebig on 2012.01.02 - 12:56 pm

      I don’t want to play anymore…

  12. #22 by Jamie on 2011.12.20 - 12:34 pm

    I’m quite surprised you haven’t found a buyer for this game. The code/engine (all proprietary?) is very stable and quick even on older hardware and yet the graphics are still quite fresh even though the game itself is not at all new. I suppose it’s due to the ‘cartoony’ look you chose, sort of like what Blizzard did with World of Warcraft.

    Any-who, have you ever thought about trying to sell the game to professionals in the F2P (Which is profitable when done right) market like Aeria Games? (when the game returns to it’s entirely playable, pre-shutdown state).

  13. #23 by xSnoopy on 2011.12.16 - 12:46 pm

    Damn Michael πŸ™‚ ,
    It takes a lot to impress me, but this does!
    A few more TB’s sales, 1500 more subscriptions and you/we will be there.
    Twenty one months ago I sat here and watched the screen go black.
    Over the past few months, I hope I have contributed, in some small way, to the resurrection of There.
    We Paintballers tend to have aggressive personalities and, as you well know, tend to be a pain in the ass at times BUT,
    I may be talking out of turn, but let me say this for the Misery’s, Tigrane’s and Snoopy’s …….

    THANK YOU!!!!

  14. #24 by Shynow on 2011.11.07 - 4:11 pm

    Dear Micheal, I’m not going to bash anything on here but I was speaking with WildBilly about some things and was curious about some of the things that were discussed.

    1.) (I hope this doesn’t go against anything you wish not to answer, I simply skimmed through your post) Is it true that you are paying significantly less now than you were before to run the There servers?

    2.) Neighborhood owners (and people who just generally spent a lot of money in There) generally spent around 50-100 dollars a month to keep a neighborhood running. On top of which the lots in a neighborhood and PaZ’s were also needing to be paid off a month, (which I understand is significantly lower than a neighborhood itself, but it is still a figure).

    Now with those two things in mind I was wondering, going with the monthly fee (which despite a lot of the people on here upset about that, I see no real problem with for the fact that this is a great game and a measly 10 dollars a month is perfectly fine for it. (as well the fact that the only people upset are <18 year olds who don't have a job to pay for the monthly fee)) of 10 dollars. If there was enough money flow from T$ sales a month, would it be at all possible that in the future There could be free once more (with the old one time payment for premium membership of course)? If I have any facts wrong please correct me. I hope to hear a response.

    • #25 by Samuel on 2011.12.14 - 3:09 pm

      I like the idea of a free to play there, but in my mind it’s not a realistic goal. If anything I think a more realistic idea would be that there opens to free players who can explore and do basic tasks and still have the 10$ a month fee in place for premium members. Free players get a “demo” of sorts so they’re convinced, premium players keep the cash flow coming in.

    • #26 by Charles Davis on 2012.01.08 - 12:18 pm

      At first i thought i would not have a issue with paying a $10 fee. Then i started adding it up. with one paz and the $10 fee, it is close to 25 bucks a month. with my $35 budget i set aside for there i would only have $10 left for shopping and paint ball refills. i just think it is asking to much. now if there charged $15 a month and gave me 30days on one paz. i would say that would seem a bit more fair to me. i just do see the since in paying to get into a world. then having to pay rent on paz. i do understand that there where alot of people taking up space and not spending a dime witch would raise the cost. But to me this $10 fee just to get in. nothing extra,( just to get in) given the amount of money i spent on a mothly bases is just a slap in the face. but then again that is just my point of view.

  15. #27 by ARTIE on 2011.10.28 - 12:58 pm

    I came back to see if this page was being updated with the costs from each month. I know it was not promised, but thought it worth noting how much you and your team have invested to get this show back on the road. I get the feeling that this is a labor of LOVE just as much as it is a financial investment on your part. I totally understand your need for not wanting to part with such a wonderfully creative virtual world. I hope that the investment brings you much joy … no matter how much people complain.

  16. #28 by Brad on 2011.10.23 - 4:25 pm

    I am really impressed that you are considering posting operating costs for There. You will be the first virtual world that I know that does this. I assume you haven’t posted the figures yet because only a select few can sign in at once?

  17. #29 by Jay on 2011.10.21 - 6:34 am

    I don’t see the problem in complaining about $10, if you like the game an investment of $10 dollars to anyone over the age of 18 should be pretty much nothing. I think if the $10 keeps the game up and running this time for good then $10 is should be. Also people paying $10 per month won’t act like little kids and get themselves banned because they are paying for it.

  18. #30 by vito on 2011.10.20 - 10:14 pm

    Dear Michael Wilson , Before you make anybody pay i must bring to your attention that you should at least cover most of the open stray ocean (Unless An Ocean Or River) & bring a couple big cities that favor New York or LA with shops to go into to spend tbux like a cafe shop or clothing store in a mini mall or plaza Just give us something to explore without seeing open land and a bunch of mountains and water u could always call the parts that u couldnt civilize the woods or mountains . Octobers here already which would make it great to put a fun-house in the woods. And Decembers right around the corner making it easy to make weather snow in the mountains and selling hiking and skiing gear for the winter with each season has different animals in the woods of your choice (Michael). but as for the city part make a more civilized city with a beautiful skyline that would give us traffic that must be obeyed (Red light violations and more) & since u need to fund this thing u should make traffic tickets that are paid off with tbux or U.S or global currency BUT WAIT NO CONTROVERSY HERE u can put this in the terms and agreement so that the therian has to agree to pay a ticket if convicted in the terms and agreement and if not equally agreed the individual has to go without there until they can act as civilized on as they do in real life. And the main point is u have to have tbux to get anything in right?. secondly u need to bring the idea of GATED AND NAMED apartment complexes (Gold Crossing , Willow Tree Apartments ETC.) into the game with preset house structures so that we can have neighbors and a gated community to live in with therians . It would also be a good idea to make the virtual game more realistic to where u can only logout when u sleep in your bed and when u log back in you wake up from bed. Also since it will be 18 plus u should make it a 18 plus game & eliminate rules like no cursing … Michael we’re all grown here that makes it sound like our moms telling us not to curse or else , I also would like it if u brought car radios to the limelight in it would greatly enhance the players feel of the game specially in city lights . Dynamic weather would be nice too , time should go off of your time zone for better realism . Lastly i would like better rendered graphics and brawling since it will be a 18 + game

    • #31 by Jay on 2011.10.21 - 6:39 am

      Wouldn’t work with the tickets and paying off with Tbux, some citys around the game would be nice to explore tho.

    • #32 by thereuser on 2011.10.23 - 5:21 am

      @vito…. about: “Dynamic weather would be nice too , time should go off of your time zone for better realism”

      So I am in Nevada and its sunny at crab rock… but my friend who is Australia chatting with me there at crab rock is seeing it as night? Hmm.

    • #33 by reenren on 2011.12.14 - 1:00 am

      i hate with a passion all vitos ideas. please don’t even consider any of them. i won’ teven bother to say why except that they violate the whole reason and purpose of there. Vito belongs in another more “realistic” world, not MY Beloved and serene there. tyvm.

  19. #34 by 70leon on 2011.10.14 - 11:37 pm

    glad I could help, not sure if I’m even posting a comment due to the crappy blog settup

  20. #36 by 70leon on 2011.10.14 - 11:35 pm

    Just curious, but will the delay here after the announcement make people who were willing to come back forget to come back? Or at the least just forget? Not sure about your methods if you were so touchy about the survey in the first place….

  21. #37 by Tom on 2011.10.12 - 9:37 am

    Who is this Michael Wilson? I loved There and also grew up with it, and plan on coming back even though its going to be expensive, but Michael seems to be treating everyone very unprofessional?

    • #38 by JasonMK on 2011.11.12 - 5:30 am

      Grew up with it? Just out of curiosity, how old were you when There launched?

      • #39 by iceange1 on 2012.01.26 - 4:54 am

        Lol. I grew up with there too, kinda.. lol but lucky for me i turned 18 last year so it is possible to of had there when some people were younger.
        As for who Michael Wilson is (this is to Tom) he is someone who is trying to bring back There for us in a way so that it does not have to close again.
        Though it may seen unprofessional it really is just the way he has to talk i guess so certain people can get the new rules and problems through their head.

  22. #40 by Kaleb on 2011.10.11 - 2:26 pm

    10$? Is that a positive number? I mean, I grew up on this game and I used to play almost everyday. I can not wait for it to re open. But 10$? I am not sure that everyone will be able to pay that for a game just starting off.. it might not even be that great from release so i feel to ask 10$ from everyone would be a little much. I’d pay 5$ for sure, then if the game does well keep it “there” ha, 10$ just isnt very attractive to throw away. 10$ follows the 20$ on Tbucks and then the game might not even thrive. I hope it does I would be willing to pay 10$ if I knew it would, but not knowing if I am going to waste my money again or not.. not sure, I have spent hundreds to a thousand dollars on this game in the past. I’d like to not throw away anymore, even if it is a measly 10$

    • #41 by Karen on 2011.10.12 - 10:23 am

      I hate to burst your bubble but Mekena is a business, and in order for a business to survive they have to make money. Mekena never asked you to spend a large lump of money on There, you decided that on your own. Whether or not you are willing to spend any money on the game is your choice and yours alone. Mekena is a business.

    • #42 by JasonMK on 2011.11.12 - 5:31 am

      Grew up with it? Once again I just have to ask, out of curiosity, how old were you when There launched?

  23. #43 by Carol on 2011.10.01 - 7:33 am

    I wonder if once we pay to play will make money for clothes etc, we are already subscribers when we pay?

  24. #44 by Carol on 2011.10.01 - 7:32 am

    Eu gostaria de saber, se assim que nΓ³s pagarmos para jogar o, ganharemos dinheiro, para roupas etc, ja seremos assinantes quando pagarmos??

  25. #45 by Dante on 2011.09.25 - 3:34 am

    Michael i know my legacy avatar ID and password, I will not able to pay 10$ since I’m from India, so can i get a refund on all the stuff i have on that account? I spent a lot of money and my there mom also spent loads of money for that account so yeah.

  26. #47 by bluets on 2011.09.23 - 9:10 am

    I miss There. I miss my buggy and bashing avies with it and watching them fly through the air. I miss paint ball and getting slid on my fanny from one side of to the other (because i was a poor paintballer πŸ™‚ but still fun!) There is no game like There.. that I have seen or know of anyhow. Thank you Michael Wilson for the attempt to rez my avie and rez up some fun. -hugs- I think you rock my socks.

  27. #48 by Aaron on 2011.09.04 - 5:03 am

    If everybody is going to pay, why There is 18+ only? . Under-aged people could pay the money. as same how 18+ people could. =/

    • #49 by Jason on 2011.09.04 - 5:06 am

      Read the blog carefully before you post please. and yes, I had protest about 18+ There problem. I have a 15 year old cousin, and he wont join. and I did really wanted him join. but, I think MW had the right not to make under 18 people join. Its a great Responsabillity, Aaron.

      -Jason Tracer

      • #50 by David H on 2011.09.13 - 6:31 pm

        Ah yes, your ‘cousin’ who is 15 πŸ™‚

  28. #51 by Yadoo95008 on 2011.09.02 - 11:52 am

    By just the player agreeing to the ToS, “saying” that they are at least 18 years old or older, it should relief most of the responsibility.

  29. #52 by Jason on 2011.08.29 - 4:06 am

    Yes, I agree you its a risk and costs alot of money. but, you can’t only handle on PayPal payment method. some people got PayPal blocked in their countries. (Yes, i’m one of them D:) Why not another payment method? like PayPal and DAOPAY (Paybymobile)? . and if you are trying to have a security so underaged people not join There, then trust me, You ‘ll fail. if just a kid asked their parents to pay them for There and they accepted, The kid is gunna join There, and whenever somebody in the world asks him like how old are you? he is gunna say that he is 18 or 18+. so, Don’t really handle of having a high security for preventing kids from joining There. =)

  30. #53 by Yadoo95008 on 2011.08.26 - 10:56 pm

    I got ThereIM but so far haven’t seen any of my old friends online so kind of a fail for me. Hopefully There 3D world opens up soon but Michael please take as much time as you need to ensure “There2” will function properly. Money is kind of tight over here but will be trying to fit another $10 a month for There2. We are customers and therefore must pay for our product. $10/month isn’t as bad as some games but worth every penny! I just recently turned 18 myself, (YAY!), so I can legitimately play. =) The age restriction is for the minor’s safety and There’s legal safety. And by simply clicking the “Yes, I agree to the Terms of Service and am over the age of 18, relieves the liability off of There’s back. Yes, you can lie and click it anyways but There will eventually catch you. Hope to see that people will respectfully follow the There2’s guidelines and we can *mainly* all just go back to having fun and hanging out in There! I’m ready to start any time so just hit us up once you push that start button and let the games begin!

  31. #54 by Robert Ricci on 2011.08.22 - 3:34 am

    Ok ” There” is coming back. Downloaded and installed the IM…can understand it will be a little while for my old Av to regain its inventory….no big there…..Will there be a ” temporary” way for all of us to chat with each other ( not needing a friend or group folder??).

  32. #55 by Liam on 2011.08.20 - 10:09 am

    And LOL at the fact healthcare comes into the equasion, whats wrong with your country… Maybe you should migrate somewhere not retarded and set up there 2.

    • #56 by Escape on 2011.08.23 - 3:04 am

      Know what I think?? Maybe you should kiss my A$$ !!! Have a Great Day. ‘wave

  33. #57 by Liam on 2011.08.20 - 10:07 am

    You shouldn’t settle for this monthly expenditures model. I’m sure you could consider a completely different strategy.. for a start instead of paying employee’s why not get volunteers who love the project, in return for virtual items at the most; perhaps make it an open source model with compulsory donations (for in-game items, otherwise it wouldnt be opensource).. get the community to be the developers, hosts, etc etc.. Some of the things on this expenditures model seem ridiculous- Learn from your mistake, it FAILED…. If you are serious of investing so much then re-plan it, a smaller world (perhaps just one island) instead of 90% of the space being wasted on deserted land.. Sit down with your investors and listen to their ideas, if they’re investing I’m sure they need to spend time with you to make their own profit from it. I think this entire new *plan* is just sticking a fee here and there which will make it less sustainable than the first… people will try it out for a bit, if they’ve played before.. get bored after realising they didn’t miss paying money and play something else. I will not be joining there”2″ unless there is a substancially different approach, with just the core graphics and similar world style as there was before….. This plan is too americanised -_-.

  34. #58 by Mentor1 on 2011.08.16 - 4:21 pm

    I’m just glad that the Veterans we found on There will be able to come back to the Memorial, complements of INVU. And like someone said, hurry. I have my check book ready. Seriously, lets go!

    • #59 by JasonMK on 2011.08.18 - 5:53 am

      Sorry, no checks accepted. PayPal only. ‘lol

  35. #60 by cherrii on 2011.08.16 - 1:16 pm

    i uninstalled

  36. #62 by M on 2011.08.11 - 10:05 am

    Wow, is this world really ignorant enough to create conspiracy theory’s on a VIRTUAL world? My god…

  37. #63 by FOX30 on 2011.08.09 - 2:50 pm

    Hmm , followed the instructions , i’m getting an error messahe server not found for that avitar 😦

  38. #64 by toolbud on 2011.08.08 - 4:38 pm

    I can’t get past the “tweaking” of the installation I completed! Every change to the edit box was “Invalid”!!
    Now what can I do?

    • #65 by Hott_Chickk_513 on 2011.08.14 - 10:50 pm

      There Is No Set Date For THERE To Open Quite Yet. If You Read This Forum, It’s Updated When Mr.Wilson Has Time To Update It. It Says The % Their At & Etc.. This Is The Best Place To Come To Find Out Whats Going On. I’m Eager Just Like You For THERE To Open Back Up! I Tried All Other Virtual Worlds & Ended Up Uninstalling Them Because They Sucked So Bad. Nothing Compares To THERE & I’m Ready For It To Be Back! πŸ™‚

  39. #66 by The Cr0W on 2011.08.06 - 5:49 pm

    anybody knows a possible date or even a guess when will there re-open i really cannot wait!!!!

  40. #67 by Lance Kilpatrick on 2011.08.05 - 6:11 pm

    When There closed I was a paid member, but now there is no recognition of the email address I used when There was last open. Is my account gone forever, or is there a way to find it. I have messages from before There closed so I know that the email address I used then is still one that I have.

  41. #68 by azumix on 2011.08.05 - 8:31 am

    what if some one is over 18 but gave false age in last there to avoid been hassled and lot of people did that,will the age that they gave and date of birth in last there be taking into account,or will there be way using there last username to verefy there real age,as on paper it will look like there under 18,but more like 21 plus in real life

  42. #69 by supdoggy123 on 2011.08.02 - 9:22 pm

    Dear MW
    Ive been on for a year…When it closed i was pretty damn sad and I even made a tribute to it

    Please watch that…
    But my point is im just under 18 but cant you let that go for a 17 yo that loves so much???

    • #70 by Michael Wilson on 2011.08.02 - 9:40 pm

      Sorry, but no.

      • #71 by M on 2011.08.11 - 10:08 am

        Isnt the reason you cant let 18 and under in is because you have to pay for some sort of license? (which cost money…but actually if thats the case didnt you already have to have one for There..why not just use it?) …sorry this is confusing.

      • #72 by Michael Wilson on 2011.08.11 - 10:48 am

        Uhhh, no, there’s no such thing as a “minor license”.

        Please read the posts about this carefully.

      • #73 by M on 2011.08.12 - 4:36 am

        Alright, I’m sorry, its just I don’t even remember where I saw the post I just was thinking it had said something like that, not trying to waste your time.

  43. #74 by n00dles on 2011.07.26 - 9:15 am

    Thanks for posting the details. I’m really happy you are all working to bring There back!

  44. #75 by FOX30 on 2011.07.26 - 5:10 am

    I’m really not sure how it all works , i’m not a computer tech/eng. But i do play WoW currently , and i pay a 15 dollar fee to do so. With that said i play multiple toons , i am able to log off of one and on to another at any given time with a max total of 50 toons per account. I am able to send items via inworld mail , Meaning one toon that has an item that i need on another toon is able to visit a mail box , send that item over , log off that toon and jump back on the other to retrieve it.

    There has to be a way There2 should be able to link say……a max of 10 avies to one account , i mean its the same person just on a diffrent avie.
    One fee. Trust me , i had17 avies on and is noway in the world i can pay for all them every month. All have inventory. I spent countless hours in world , and anyone that knows me , knows i did , i even had the oppertunity of shooting around with MW in zephyr on more than one occasion.

    All i’m really asking is that you look into multiple avies per account , i really dont wanna lose anything i had , rare or not it all was special to me for one reason or another.


  45. #76 by Phil Reinsmith on 2011.07.26 - 12:31 am

    I guess I never thought of the money I spent in There as an investment. I considered it an enhancement of my There experience. I was playing Free for about 30 days or so, but DAMN….I needed more stuff. When There2 opens, I’ll be right in line ready, waiting and very willing to spend, spend, spend….Keep up the great work MW. You are making a LOT of Therians very happy…….Rockinsurfer_boy

  46. #77 by maverickfred on 2011.07.25 - 3:24 pm

    well im reading all this bloks and people are still not reading mw bloks let them finish fixing there 1st i dont care iff its $10 or $20 a month bring back there and good on them iff they make money nothing is free in life some facts .
    1/ movies and a meal for a family of say 4 would cost you over $70 . and i can go on but it would bore you lol.

  47. #78 by Amber on 2011.07.25 - 6:48 am

    Will someone send me a invite for the free basic membership for
    my email is
    Please & Thank you

    • #79 by CrypticAsian on 2011.07.26 - 11:10 am

      No one can send you an invite; it’s currently under beta-testing/building phase so the world is NOT open to the public at this time. Once the world is open to the public, you won’t need an invite — you can simply go to the website and register for an account. πŸ™‚

    • #80 by Ant1977 on 2011.07.30 - 3:33 pm

      Sorry Amber, there will be no Free basic memberships in I hope that when There is open to the public you will join us for at least a month and see for yourself how awesome this virtual world really is. That is if you’re over the age of 18, otherwise hope to see you in There on or shortly after your 18th birthday.

  48. #81 by Jessica on 2011.07.24 - 8:18 am

    So ; Let me understand this… We have pay to PLAY? I think that’s bad… I love There and everything but I’m from argentina and $10 are like $50 for me… And i’m 14 years old… I think that if I don’t have money and I’m under 18 years old doesn’t have to be a problem to play in a GAME. Think about that.

    • #82 by Michael Wilson on 2011.07.24 - 8:51 am

      I have.

      There will be 18+.

      There will not be free.


    • #83 by Nevada Dimitri on 2011.07.25 - 2:15 pm

      It’s a lot like going to a movie. Yes, you’re doing it for fun. You’re not getting anything material out of it. But it costs real money to allow you to watch that movie. The theatre needs to pay their staff to keep the place clean and running smoothly. They need to pay their utility bills (can’t watch a movie without electricity). They need to pay for the rights to play the movie. It’s a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff that most people don’t think about, but is absolutely necessary to continue providing you the entertainment.

  49. #84 by david katabana on 2011.07.22 - 11:01 pm

    i don’t realy understand. i went to the homepage and it has the free basic membership option available. is there going to have a free basic account? how do you get invited?

  50. #85 by Reator on 2011.07.22 - 4:56 pm

    Ok, I am very confused about this…
    How do you get invited, and how do you pay the $10? Do we have to wait? I see the website is up and running…
    Sorry if I am bothering any of the people here, I am just very confused.

    • #86 by Reator on 2011.07.22 - 4:57 pm

      Actually, ignore this comment.

  51. #87 by Outre on 2011.07.18 - 2:58 pm


    There are many models that are already working, there for I cannot understand why There can’t just co-opt one of those.

    When I found out There closed I joined SmallWorlds (SW) trying to find something similiar.

    The following is NOT an ad for SW, they are missing some things I crave. BUT, if you do not already have someone IN SW checking out the business model, since you can do so as a free member, then what are you waiting for?

    I like the SW plan, Free to Play, Pay a monthly, 6 month or yearly subscription for PREMIUM content. Right now they are running a yearly subscription special for $64.95 yr or $5.42 per month plus a free vehicle. The offer includes the 2k gold per month stipend and a certain amount of Citizen Level points (required to do certain special activities and purchase certain premium content)

    On a free account I get a 5 avatars with a house and house pet for each. I can create missions to earn tokens should I wish. I do missions and loyalty challenges to earn tokens and gold. I can go chat in ANY public place and places that members have made for chatting. (Members are allowed to privatize personal spaces should they wish). I can level aspects for free like Artist, Social, Gamer, etc., I simply need to buy the non-premium tools to do so. I can also buy basic clothing for my avatar. With the gold I earn I can buy certain premium lower level items such as wings and monthly wearables.

    Premium members get the above AND a pet that can go anywhere. They can buy better “looks”, clothing, accessories, weapons and spells for PvP, AND get a monthly gold stipend. Some of the subscription models include special vehicles and clothing. They are always running different gold specials as well. They can get vehicles, some included in the subscription, some not.

    I think they’re making enough money. They haven’t stripped anything back and have recently deployed a new extension to the game called Painter that allows Artists to send their images to Facebook Friends.

    If There opens with a free model where you can’t do anything, can’t earn the capability to do anything, are severely restricted to a small area and can only chat to newbies that come through. And if there isn’t a sliding subscription price that makes sense, like one year for approx $5 US a month – for full access – then I cannot see myself joining. I cannot justify $9.95 a month.

    And no, I don’t even play subscription MMOs. I pay the free to play with premium Cash Shops and only pay for storage.

    What is SW lacking? A linear world. You teleport / zone everywhere. There aren’t any group events save for the spaces that members create for chatting, some club meetings, etc. I don’t know if the programming lacks the capability to provide these or if this is how they save on bandwidth. Besides PvP and consoles, that host other web site games, there are no group fun word or skill games. There’s a lack of that sense of community in SW except among mission creators, of which I am not one.

    I would scrap SW for There if There re-opens sensibly. 10k people on a yearly $5.50 per month cost would cover your basic expenses.

    If you somehow work out a reward system NOW for members to promote and bring in others (not gold – items) then you might be able to grow at a decent rate.

    I don’t know how to keep you from growing too fast, but I guess charging too CAN be one way. However, once you get used to charging that, it’s difficult, isn’t it, to put THAT genie back in the bottle and charge less to capture the larger market.

    I noticed you have the page up with the “Create an avatar” module, only it’s by invitation only? How many of your former members are checking this an getting turned away? You’re not even asking for an email address to keep them updated. I know my original email hasn’t gotten any news. So this page is making it seem closed to only the few “insiders”. At least let them leave an email address and kick a simple newsletter out.

    Lastly I’ll simply give my opinion on the member run method that seems to have not worked out as planned. Don’t do it again. Too many cooks spoiled the dish. Get a business and marketing plan and stick to it. Roll out improvements slowly after testing. Vary the testing pool so that improvements aren’t based on the likes and desires of a narrow sample. Don’t allow favoritism of any kind.

    It IS a business on your end, treat it like a business, not a toy, or hobby.

    • #88 by jimony on 2011.07.25 - 1:57 pm

      I can understand if SW satisfies your needs that you wouldn’t want to pay 10.00 for more.

      I do agree with you about the home page, though. How hard could it be to add a text box disclaimer on the front page stating the world is currently being tested and is only open to those asked to test it and that asking to test it will not get you in.

  52. #89 by Pressleigh on 2011.07.18 - 2:41 pm

    Thank you for your reply MW…

    I certainly understand that you choose to and need to run as a business… it shouldn’t be any other way. As a potential return customer, just like many others… I think we are a bit “gun shy” and are hoping you will have some “good faith” measures to help us find confidence in your intentions.

    Look forward to seeing more… and most of all that new TOS! πŸ™‚ As well as comments/responses on all of my statements or questions…

    Best wishes…

  53. #90 by Stephen Donaghey (Stevo127) on 2011.07.18 - 1:13 pm

    Why do people constantly have to go at Michael for disallowing under 18’s into There? He has made it clear that the costs in doing so are not covered by the under 18’s themselves, so, if he was to let this age group into There, and pay to do so, an instant loss would be made in this section.

    As for the people that say this is a “second attempt” at getting in, getting as much money as possible and “running away again”; when There closed, they gave all the money you spent recently back to you, which I’m sure put the company in a lot more debt than they would have got if they didn’t pay everyone back.
    How can you say they are trying to take your money when they gave a lot of it back the last time around.

  54. #91 by Stephen Donaghey (Stevo127) on 2011.07.18 - 7:23 am

    Clearly most of your companies overheads come from paying salaries each month, paying $23,000 a MONTH for [4 paid workers?] (As listed above)
    Is that not a little bit too much for each employee, considering that the business isn’t bringing in any GROSS income at the moment?

    I am sure, alot of community members can volunteer to do the customer support side of things in There, and much of / all of the moderation side of There, i myself would definitely be willing to help There get back on it’s feet and maybe start making some money/month by doing some of these voluntary jobs. Surely this aspect of your business plan can be altered?

    Thanks in advance for any response with regards to this matter.

    • #92 by Michael Wilson on 2011.07.18 - 7:49 am

      First, I think I was pretty clear about salary discussions.

      Second, a very small part of that is Customer Support. There is no Community Support included here.

      Third, the remaining work – Engineering and Operations – can’t be done by the Community. And the people we have doing it are very senior, and very familiar with the platform and software. I’m completely comfortable with what they’re being paid, in fact, I wish I could pay them more.

      That is all.

      That is all.

      • #93 by Stephen Donaghey (Stevo127) on 2011.07.18 - 12:39 pm

        Sorry for bringing up the matter, i thought you only made it clear about previous salary discussions before There closed.
        Also sorry for bringing up a touchy subject, if you feel you are paying them the right sum, keep at it.

        And on an off-topic subject, keep up the fine work on bringing There back. πŸ™‚

  55. #94 by Reator on 2011.07.15 - 7:46 pm

    I really wanted to say this..
    You know those in-game jobs in SL that pays you lindens? Well, I was going to ask if that program would be added into that would pay you therebucks. It’s just an idea.

    • #95 by NurseJay on 2011.07.20 - 9:15 pm

      That would be up to the members. Linden jobs in SL are paid by other members, not by Second Life.

  56. #96 by Robert Rodrigues on 2011.07.15 - 7:40 pm

    Any update on the costs here with the actuals? Was just curious. πŸ™‚

  57. #97 by Michael Frady on 2011.07.15 - 7:40 am

    Can you tell me what date there will be re-open?

  58. #98 by Pressleigh on 2011.07.14 - 8:35 pm

    Dearest MW… It’s been awhile and clearly you have had your hands full for quite some time now!

    So, I have been watching this all go back and forth for months now…

    It would be nice to have a factual rundown on where you (MW/ are at with some of the final decisions about how There2 will operate as it pertains to memberships, service, terms and conditions… fees… and so on…

    I have 5+ avatars with very valuable inventory totaling thousand upon thousands of items… one owned an island for well over a year and half… one owned pazes in Zephyr for over a year… one holds hundreds of vehicles… all were rare or unique… one retained all of my rare clothing… and so on… what are you provisions going to be when it comes to reclaiming all my inventory that is spread among all these avatars? Or are there any provisions? I spent thousands of RL dollars to create an existence in for myself and many others to enjoy… and it was quickly taken away with no compensation or consideration… and lord knows, I wasn’t the only one put in this position. How are you going to address this issue? I have read everything from making us pay for each avatar to you guys will be able to do it for us… what is what on this?!

    I am very unclear on the land situation… I have read comments indicating that we will get our avatars back with everything in its inventory intact… my island was a part of one of my avatar’s inventory, my pazes were part of my inventory… and if there are no provisions for land as of yet that I have read, which means my inventory will be incomplete… will I be reimbursed for any of the expenses I had incurred? Mind you I didn’t use my island for profit, I paid each month out of my pocket or via auction sales to protect its integrity… and of course to control the building … I so did love the building… In fact, I won house of the year, and my hood was featured on many occasions all or in part!

    Another BIG concern I have is there have been claims that has contacted its members via the email addresses that have been retained in the database… The emails I used for each avatar are real, and I use them regularly; HOWEVER, I have received not a single email from… not one. So, what does this mean… either you aren’t effectively contacting people via the emails you indicated you have on file, OR your database is incomplete/corrupted data… and if it is the later, how do I know my inventories are as I left them?

    I have also seen chattering about avatars that are not reclaimed within 6 months or something like that will be purged from the system. IF this is true, and if you decide to make us pay for each avatar to access the inventory and self transfer it, that might pose a challenge for some financially… and even more so if only one avatar is allowed to log in at a time… yet another thing I think I read somewhere in all of this.

    So… while I am pleased that you and your team have found ways to resurrect… and the membership is happy to support this via fees and such… It would be helpful for us to have more definitive answers about final decisions on how things will play out… reading through hundreds of comments doesn’t define the big picture at all, and the clock is ticking!

    With the impending start up of ThereIM, and seriously relying on “us” buying in on this whole new venture, you might want to start thinking about revealing the true terms by which you plan to operate, and a prospectus on how and when you plan to roll out what.

    I am one of those members that actually read the TOS when I signed up to in 2006, so that I would know what was, what my rights were, and as a service provider, what type of service I should expect. I would like to do so again before potentially entering into terms with you/ for a second time around, especially since the playing field has changed considerably!

    Many thanks for your diligence and my regards to you and your team!


    • #99 by Michael Wilson on 2011.07.14 - 10:01 pm

      Thank you for your comment.

      Here are the facts:

      1. We understand that you, and many others, spent lots of money in There. In turn, the investors (which include me), also spent at least, if not more, than an equal amount (actually, I can say, if you count the venture investment, more) to keep There open, and, honestly, losing money. I understand that it’s not a consolation, but believe me, everyone lost.
      2. It’s only fair that, going forward, we charge for each avatar who wants to be live on There. We understand that people have stashed inventory on many other avatars, and need to figure out how to handle that. Worst case (which I hope is NOT where we end up), you sign up the Avatar(s) for a month, and merge all of their inventories. I know it doesn’t seem fair that you have to keep 5, or 10, or 20, and pay for them because of some limitation in the system, but that’s what you signed up for.
      3. I can say that at least your PAZ’s and Lots will be in your inventory, with whatever time left on them when we closed. We can’t, at this second, guarantee their placement, mostly because we’re changing the technology, and the “place” your “lot” is on may not be “on” when you arrive in world. We understand that some locations are precious to people, and will do our best to do right here. But I can’t, and won’t make guarantees.
      4. Unfortunately, our TOS is quite biased towards the company. Fact is, There could operate 1 second out of the month, and we’d still be meeting the TOS. Of course, we’d never feel right doing that, but that’s what’s in the TOS, along with our right to change prices, and the fact that you don’t “own” any virtual goods (which readers of this blog are well educated in by now πŸ™‚ ). Fact is, the clothes, the buggies, the land, are all just bits in a computer. You can’t own them, actually, any more than we can, since they’re now hosted on servers we don’t even own.

      I know this all sounds harsh, but treating There, or any other game or MMO as an investment is not the way to think about it.


      You pay to enhance the experience, just as you would preferred parking at a theme park. But it’s as ephemeral as the right to that parking space. Of course, There will do it’s best to keep your virtual belonging safe, and “corporate” (whatever that means), but at the end of the day, it’s all just bits.

      I think you need to judge us by our actions and make your own decisions:

      1. We (Makena, and it’s investors) spent millions (spent, not spent-and-made-back, not spent-and-made-a-profit) to create There, improve it, and keep it open. Frankly, we never spoke of that, and we should have, long ago.
      2. You may not have agreed with how There was run, or the decisions we made, but it was always your decision to stay, and watch us make those decisions. Personally, I’m sure many of them were wrong, but they weren’t all wrong, and we didn’t come up with all of them on our own πŸ™‚
      3. We (Makena) weren’t required to give notice when we closed, nor were we required to give refunds, no were we required to do the T$ BuyBack. That money came right out of the investor’s pockets.
      4. We’ve yet to break even on the work to re-open There, and it will be a bit before we can even contemplate that. But, you don’t see us talking about it. You can all go to the page and do the math.

      I apologize for my non-conciliatory response, but I want you, and everyone else to know, this is not an investment.

      We hope, and will do our best, to make sure that is repaid in experience, fun, and friendships, but we have to be honest here. We need to run There like a business, and charge people as a business would. Try going into a restaurant with 4 kids, and claiming “if you decide to make us pay for all of them” and see where that gets you. Again, I apologize, but it’s just about the same deal.

      Ok, I have to get back to work on UDP ports and such.

  59. #100 by DrakeLover on 2011.07.12 - 3:10 pm

    Ok, I’m really excited that There is opening up again, but I think the whole 18 and older thing is dumb. Only because why would 18 year olds and older need a ” VIRTUAL WORLD ” when that’s kinda imature and they can have a real life world of their own because they can drive and meet people. I just think it’s imature that you would have a THERE when you are an adult. Childish


    • #101 by Michael Wilson on 2011.07.12 - 3:25 pm


      Is that more or less mature than someone who would use a fake email generator ( to sign a post?

      • #102 by lovernotahater on 2011.07.13 - 1:03 pm

        its not worse so dont be mean, everyone is sharin their comments meany 😦

    • #103 by Tasha907 on 2011.08.31 - 11:08 am

      well honestly, if you read some or most of the above posts above, us older adults need a place to get away from the real world…even friends and a virtual world is best way to do so. why would an 17 and less want to be on the comp when they should be enjoying the young lives instead of being on the computer…i was never home around that age and even tho i am older i only do come to the computer because it’s a home away from home but when i was a teenager i was hanging with my friends…enjoying not having to worry about bills and such..just saying

    • #104 by Robin Lynn on 2012.07.05 - 5:05 am

      There isn’t just a place for young teenagers.. believe it or not us adults need a break sometime!

  60. #105 by LB23 on 2011.07.09 - 11:15 pm

    wow a payroll of 23k a month? yet dental is only 37? how many people are working on this? Staffing is (1) Engineer, (1) Systems Administration, (1) P/T Customer Support, (1) P/T Accounting, (.5) Engineer (unpaid), (1) CEO (unpaid) Im guessing the engineer, systems admin, customer support and accounting is all the same person. 6 are unpaid? so 4 people are making 23k a month and 2 are P/T? so I figure the 2 P/T = 1 full and you have 3. the 2 full time are making over 7.5k each a month.

    • #106 by Michael Wilson on 2011.07.10 - 7:18 am

      First, your math is off.

      Second, didn’t you read the part about not accepting comments about individual salaries?

      Third, 7.5K a month is way, way, way below market rate for senior engineers around here.

  61. #107 by san on 2011.07.09 - 2:18 am

    I don’t really think There will work. Either it is a game or its a virtual economy it cannot be both. So either there is a monthly fee and everything in game is free, the more you play the more priviledges you get – or there is a monthly fee and a virtual economy where you can make Tbucks by working online in There as well as spending Tbucks to buy things. If its a latter there has to be a need for people to work in – and the virtual people in must be willing/need to pay for services – and there must also be a way to charge for services – it can’t be a one sided economy where people pay into a black hole and nothing comes out of it. This is why I don’t think there will ever really work unless it is a game. You pay a monthly fee to take part, everything is free but you get more as you play more – kind of like an mmrpg. A virtual economy would be a lot of fun but without there being a way to create Tbucks from inside the it is pretty much doomed to fail.

  62. #108 by san on 2011.07.09 - 2:16 am

    I don’t really think There will work. Either it is a game or its a virtual economy it cannot be both. So either there is a monthly fee and everything in game is free, the more you play the more priviledges you get – or there is a monthly fee and a virtual economy where you can make Tbucks by working online in There as well as spending Tbucks to buy things. If its a later there has to be a need for people to work in – and the virtual people in must be willing/need to pay for services – and there must also be a way to charge for services – it can’t be a one sided economy where people pay into a black hole and nothing comes out of it. This is why I don’t think there will ever really work unless it is a game. You pay a monthly fee to take part, everything is free but you get more as you play more – kind of like an mmrpg. A virtual economy would be a lot of fun but without there being a way to create Tbucks from inside the game it is pretty much doomed to fail.

  63. #109 by dylonn0311 on 2011.07.06 - 9:52 pm

    lets open already…one thing i suggest is dont have other people selling there others selling there bucks it takes alot of money out of your pockets so from now on you should be only one selling them just a thought and i will be glad to pay 10 dollars a month just to ride my buggys all over the place and buy myself a hood:)..i mean people should be able to sell there bucks to the company but not to other people i think should be only ones buying and selling there bucks

  64. #110 by Bedlam1 on 2011.07.01 - 6:36 pm

    My understanding is soon a week or so. but they will test drive the IM first. And then hopefully its a ”GO” for us all…
    Follow it here.

  65. #111 by Sugar White on 2011.07.01 - 3:35 pm

    The CEO’s a putz. πŸ˜‰ But I think he should, at a bare minimum, get the health benefits. Especially considering what so many derisively call Obamacare — don’t you have to pay for it from your own pocket if you don’t get it from work? I’m not trying to be political, just making a suggestion.

    • #112 by Michael Wilson on 2011.07.01 - 6:48 pm

      What? I’m a putz? Are you trying to curry favor? ‘Cause if you are, Big Gulps are the currency here, not health care.

  66. #113 by leofwen on 2011.07.01 - 9:04 am

    Waves @ Hula!

  67. #114 by Laurie Anderson on 2011.07.01 - 6:40 am

    When is THERE re-opening?

  68. #115 by Keiki Stacy Weigle AKA Hula on 2011.06.30 - 7:15 pm

    oh… and btw… I vote for an event program and REMOTE STAFF (hint, hint, hint!!!) :X LOL!

  69. #116 by Keiki Stacy Weigle AKA Hula on 2011.06.30 - 7:14 pm

    Love that you disclosed this. Love that you are not letting go of There. Whole new respect for you, Sir!

  70. #117 by Johnathan on 2011.06.28 - 12:37 am

    Can we start to try to sign into our accounts as soon as possible. and probably make it were they wont lock up with too many failed attempts. I WANT to be able to get back on as my old avatar but it’s gonna take a lot of head scratching to hopefully pick through dozens of old emails and passwords. Please and thank you! i miss and depending on how much of a monthly cost, it’d be worth it. you gave us great entertainment and the least we can do is help you support it.

  71. #118 by Marlie on 2011.06.27 - 7:20 am

    when can we start paying and were?

  72. #119 by IceAnge1 on 2011.06.27 - 4:55 am

    Hmmm… so i was reading and thinking, if MW needs us to pay for the game then we should just pay, everyone needs to calm down, this is how all games start, unfortunately There had issues with this and had to close down before. Obviously they cant go the same way this time.
    You shouldn’t be asking for extra benefits because MW is trying his best right now to just try n get it up n running. There was a place of innocence. everyone was so nice and we could explore freely so, No, we should not have “adult” content even if its 18+… You never know, maybe when There starts making money eventually they will be able to hire people to monitor the 13-17 kids… As it’s been said, “Rome wasn’t built in a day.” and money doesn’t grow on trees. =]

  73. #120 by Jerry66 on 2011.06.25 - 12:27 pm

    I guess There will never run on a Suse Linux Operating system. I am sure that would take too much work and time and money.

  74. #121 by DSFB4LYFE on 2011.06.25 - 9:39 am



    • #122 by Sara on 2011.06.26 - 10:01 pm

      Sorry but the capital letters aren’t going to get you anywhere. The paid for about 8 to 10 premium 10 dollar avatars. At the time I thought they would be for life. But life may have only been a pipe dream. Maybe I should get one month free per avatar since the avatars were 10 bucks and the monthly fee was 10 bucks. But that is in a better world. That was then and this is now. That business model is dead in the water. You are lucky to have this company put out more investment to try it again at all. So if you can’t afford 33 cents a day to enter into then you are out of luck.

      Think about your budget. Are you a smoker? If so quit because it is expensive and it is extremely hazardous to your health? Do you drink? That is also garbage for your body. Do you eat junk food? quit that. That is an easy 10 dollars a month. Do you have Dish Network, Directv, or Cable of any kind? Well quit that 40 dollar a month payment and go with Netflix for a mere 7.99 a month. Do you eat steak? Well stop and become a vegetarian. Do you drive all over the place for no reason? Shopping 10 times a month when you can shop once or twice? That will save you 40.00 in fuel costs.

      I hope you can budget your money and realize that There is not your free lunch anymore. You pay to play. That is the only business model they have. If that doesn’t fly then you are out of luck. That is the only option. Also the true life Avatars are still getting There for life. They had to pay 30.00 early on when There was in Beta. I missed that lifetime deal by about 6 months or so and I was a little upset I missed it back then. But yes they still get to come in There for ZERO. But you don’t. And I don’t. Thats how your avatar cookie crumbles this time. Goodnight and Goodluck.

  75. #123 by John Pollock on 2011.06.24 - 4:50 am

    Turn it on!

  76. #124 by James White on 2011.06.23 - 11:42 am

    im trying to work out something that might actually help you guys in the long term running there 2.

  77. #125 by James White on 2011.06.23 - 11:41 am

    how much did therebucks used to cost and how much did we use to get fora dollar ?

  78. #126 by Loretta Sanchez on 2011.06.22 - 2:37 pm

    Im not sure if its been asked or properly answered , But Micheal – ? Will we be able to pay year ly and yes I know the I M will start at the end of June and if you we want to have the I M it will be ten and later the worlds cloths and exc….. got it . And will the end of the months money or quarter how ever you will show us if it makes a profite or not -Will we be able to see what goes in your poctet if you make a phofit . ? No affence attendent . Forgive me for stepping out of line.
    And again Thank You for reopening it .

    Sincerly : A formal Therian

  79. #127 by Anthony Hughes on 2011.06.19 - 4:49 am

    You should start a donation thing where we can donate money that is seperate from the monthly payments just a thought not sure how much it would help but im willing to donate to get There back up on its feet in any way i can πŸ™‚

  80. #128 by Aimee Levron on 2011.06.17 - 5:38 pm

    I don’t care if I have to pay 50 for a year subscription, I am GOING to be playing there! Just have to save up.. WOOT!

    • #129 by jimony on 2011.06.21 - 1:57 pm

      A year subscription would be 120 at the minimum, I hope you still plan to join, though.

      • #130 by Aimee Levron on 2011.06.25 - 7:46 pm

        eckk *squees* Is there anything for a longer term package?

      • #131 by jimony on 2011.06.26 - 12:56 pm

        It will be at least 10.00 per month. Probably won’t be any long term packages as it may not stay up long term if there are not enough monthly payments. Why take money from a few members for a long term payment if you might have to just refund it in a few months.
        First, I think, they want to know the monthly payments will support it.
        If monthly payments support it long enough to prove it is sustainable, maybe long term packages may be offered in the future.

      • #132 by Aimee Levron on 2011.06.30 - 9:05 am

        That makes sense! thanks πŸ˜€

  81. #133 by JonnyB5 on 2011.06.14 - 4:42 pm

    so.. i see lots of mouths speaking. but no one asking the real question… where is the donation link so we can hit this 30k mark already? i got afew hundred on it. fuck it. if you have a deep wallet. do this community some good. i know ill drop afew grand befor i let close.

    • #134 by jimony on 2011.06.15 - 11:30 am

      Donations will not help the numbers show the world making a profit. Spend the money in There so it shows as profit rather than an injection of money to keep it running. Donations are not going to prove the world will sustain itself, only profit will. Besides, I believe MW and whoever else he has as investors have already made the donations necessary to get up and going. Only profit in world will make those donations worth it.

    • #135 by HighFlier on 2011.06.15 - 7:36 pm

      Well, There’s address is no secret can’t all of you who wish to donate start-up funds just send them a check? They do still make those right? lol

      How about $10.00, $25.00, $50.00 and $100.00 (or lower prices) candy bars you purchase at candy machines around world and your avatar holds and eats them and the proceeds go to There like any other purchase. Of course the more expensive the candy bar the more chews or bites you get. Eventually you eat it all like the drinks and it would be time to donate again (buy another) They could have cool names similar to this> example

      $100,000 Bar candy bar wrappers

      One could be called the ‘Skippy Bar’ lol but you get the idea. However this would cause some design and development cost which is what is trying to be avoided. It might make it more fun for people to donate and give them something tangible their avatar can use and have fun with too.

      • #136 by Eric D. Copeland on 2011.06.18 - 12:58 pm

        I think the Laguna Beach program had a deal with Pepsi and avies could purchase a Pepsi that had so many drinks,and you could throw the cup away,then you had to buy another. those concepts are neat and probably do help the companies,but lets face it even if it is a digital item ,Most people will invest in something they can use over and over! .

      • #137 by Eric D. Copeland on 2011.06.18 - 1:07 pm

        And now that i think about it There drinks had set usage limits also ,i had so many of them i dont think i ever used one all the way ,i got all mine as prizes.I will say this ,I may not buy any drinks but i will (as before) buy Buggies ,Boats , Balloons,and clothing,and my wife’s account will also buy these items as well as clothing.With monthly fee on top of that . and happy to do it if it keep There open longer!!!!!!!

      • #138 by jimony on 2011.07.04 - 1:37 pm

        The candy bar machine There Fund Drive is not a bad idea. It isn’t really donating since you are buying something, even if it is overpriced.

        How about this idea? Sell candy bars that “boost” your avatars strength. Say for each bite you take your avatar can run faster, jump farther (even more than superbunnies) but each bite has an energy limit, after which you need another bite to maintain power. These could be addicting.

  82. #139 by Taelos on 2011.06.13 - 6:33 pm

    MW writes about transparency of running an online game: “I was reminded (and, not surprised) that Uru Online does this (though I couldn’t find )”.

    See? Another man who does not listen to me. ‘doh!

    Look for post #26 for some of it.

    No worries, I have no qualms about sending money to multiple games.

    • #140 by HighFlier on 2011.06.14 - 4:10 am

      Good post up there and worthy comments. yes, lets hope he took some consideration to your advice after all you should know after going through it a few times now at different places. Good sound advice for him. This is a good idea.

  83. #141 by Seg_Vio on 2011.06.13 - 1:16 pm

    Don’t let MW fool ya…He took the 10 years of operating cost I spent and splurged it on the Beastie Boys! (Well worth the money BTW)!

    • #142 by Seg_Vio on 2011.06.13 - 1:29 pm

      Somewhere in the ballpark of $13.37…cuz we know you run There from your Blackberry! hehehe

      • #143 by HighFlier on 2011.06.13 - 2:15 pm

        Or this where he also operates on his costs. OK, chumps back to inflating my own ego.

      • #144 by jimony on 2011.06.13 - 11:17 pm

        Nice photo, HighFlier. That must have been a motor home computer. That’s the only reason I can think of for the giant wheel on the “computer screen”.
        Sure is funny what the past thinks the future will be.

    • #145 by Seg_Vio on 2011.06.13 - 2:02 pm

      Huh wha? oh right…bacon! =-D~~~~

      • #146 by Seg_Vio on 2011.06.13 - 2:46 pm

        Close…But he had an upgrade since then!

      • #147 by HighFlier on 2011.06.14 - 4:18 am

        Hey! that’s clever, except whers the bacon. lol

      • #148 by Seg_Vio on 2011.06.14 - 2:43 pm

        ‘burp’ What bacon? ‘huh’

      • #149 by HighFlier on 2011.06.14 - 8:00 pm

        I did some digging around today and believe Iv discovered where all the operating costs get trickled off too and it ain’t the free gold and platinum fun passes he gives away but gold and platinum he’s erecting. Defo living high on the hog. Only a valley veggie would live on a spread like this. Goodness

  84. #150 by Seg_Vio on 2011.06.12 - 9:56 pm

    When the Island Guide project was in it’s startup stages, I had passed up the offer made to me since I was constantly hosting events/running Metropolis (My hood until I passed it to another player). I hope that this service will still be here when/if There reopens. I will gladly be a part of it this time (Save this as as contract :P). I also played (somewhat) the role of a villan during my last few years in world I.E. Moving Blinky to my hood. To set things straight: I never intended it to get out of hand as it did, Jon Quixote made a huge deal out of the whole thing, and I reacted (like a idiot) in retalliation to him.

    I plan on starting fresh this time, and being as constructive to the community as possible. The “stunts” I pulled in the past was for the entertainment of the community (and my ego)…But at the same time I was pushing the lines of being a hinderance to the community as well. I am Buddhist now so it is no longer in my nature to stir things up, or inflate my own ego.

    This is just my way of saying I’m sorry for any trouble I caused in the past, I just want to see the community of Therians flourish again!

    One question: Do you happen to know if some, or all of the Helpers will be returning?

    • #151 by HighFlier on 2011.06.13 - 9:23 am

      Why post this under There Operating Costs?

      • #152 by Oh Go Away Already! on 2011.06.13 - 12:08 pm

        Jeez Highflier so what? Can you shut up and let someone else speak without you having to offer your two cents (for whatever little it’s) worth?

      • #153 by Seg_Vio on 2011.06.13 - 1:05 pm

        Because within the time I did all the things I spoke of, I paid for 10 years of There.coms operating costs. πŸ˜›

      • #154 by Michael Wilson on 2011.06.13 - 1:26 pm

        Did you now? And, just so everyone knows, how big was that check?

      • #155 by HighFlier on 2011.06.13 - 1:49 pm

        Well, at least I gotem on the right subject now.

      • #156 by MmeOdileS on 2011.06.18 - 6:49 am

        ‘tu Highflier!!!! seems like you ruffled a bit of someone’s feathers rofl …see you in game…

      • #157 by Seg_Vio on 2011.06.19 - 8:44 pm

        I have very clean and well groomed feathers tyvm =D

  85. #158 by Eric D. Copeland on 2011.06.12 - 1:07 pm

    Ive been watching for changes.The site wont pull-up anymore.Dose this mean we are close???

    • #159 by Michael Wilson on 2011.06.12 - 5:06 pm

      No, it’s broken. I’ll have someone check into it. Maybe lulz thinks we’re the IMF.

  86. #160 by John on 2011.06.11 - 12:23 pm

    Forgive me for not reading the entire thread/blog ….

    I was a beta tester years and years ago and got the free lifetime membership. I have not logged on in years but I was just thinking about “There” today. If I recall I had a TON of there bucks and a ridiculous amount of inventory is that all gone now? Will our free lifetime membership be lost as well?

    • #161 by jimony on 2011.06.12 - 1:15 pm

      John, at least read the Question and Answer tab at the top. You can be forgiven for not reading the whole blog comments, but your questions are answered by MW at the beginning.

  87. #162 by Sparky on 2011.06.09 - 7:29 am

    I first joined There back in the beta stage, when it was first covered in PC Gamer all those years ago. I paid for a subscription at release. I paid then and I’ll pay now. Glad to see the prospect of There coming back to life. Hope it works out for you, Mike.

  88. #163 by Domano on 2011.06.08 - 12:24 pm

    “There has already run as a non-profit for 13 years. It was getting kind of old.”….guess I didn’t think of it that way but see your point. Probably be a pain to setup a foundation anyway.

  89. #164 by toufovou on 2011.06.08 - 6:48 am

    Oh I really like the new blog photo MW! Its perfect!!!!!!!!

  90. #165 by Domano on 2011.06.08 - 3:48 am

    I wonder how difficult it would be or even feasible to setup a non-profit to run There (e.g., There Foundation). Perhaps the Gates Foundation would be interested in contributing?

    • #166 by Michael Wilson on 2011.06.08 - 5:38 am

      There has already run as a non-profit for 13 years. It was getting kind of old.

  91. #167 by StickyBeets on 2011.06.07 - 6:24 am

    been checking at least once a week to see the progress of THERE laughing to myself because i gave a lot of my ‘useless’ t-bucks and possessions away a few days before THERE actually closed..dang me for not being able to see into the future that THERE would come back..i’ve already talked to a few ex-members about returning..i’ve even persuaded four of them by offering to pay their first six months guaranteed!..(let’s see, thats $10 x 6 months = $60..and that tymes four members equal $240..oh yeah, i forgot my own for six months equaling another $60..hmmm..ok, that comes to $300 for six months)..ok, yeah, it will work!..then if there is the life tyme membership, count me in!..umm, for me!..the others are on their own after the six month!…

    • #168 by iceange1 on 2011.06.27 - 11:59 am

      Unfortunately there wont be a “life time membership” this time around. This is why There failed the first time and why they’re trying a new method.

  92. #169 by subonline on 2011.06.07 - 12:47 am

    Mr Wilson

    Morning all,

    1) just wondering if we can open another tread about ideas to develop there while they work on the old version to be setup πŸ™‚

    2) going into the numbers for MW : its interesting to have a financial idea and a short list of numbers to look at but i prefer always stay on the strategy side of a project ( and this is what there2 needs as long u already gave an ok for the go line ) … so this and my next posts will be more on ravenue and costs ideas rather then what is that number. Now lets go into a matter quickly :

    If there2 wants to grow needs new avatars ( if we wieght ppl posting here like a 80% of ppl that will come live u need more new avatars or those unpaid engineers will stay like that, and u need to pay back debts too as u mentioned ). As u settled there2 with only paying ppl to log in this will be very difficult and you cut off many new friends we had in these two years from other worlds and games( not many want to pay to try ).

    SUGGESTION : dont even know if possible but what i was thinking of is to offer the possibility to members ( which in a way should be responsible for it ) to invite with a timer avatar friends, something like AVATARNAME_GUEST name with all or some functions activated, giving 7 days to test the system and understand if he wants to join …. I got more structured ideas about it but i will leave it to the blog if interested to develop the idea

    For sure something like that would open the range of new avatars ( think serious ones ) that could join

    Sorry to bother you

  93. #170 by Xeroxcopy on 2011.06.06 - 5:13 pm

    Simple question, will the Forums be reinstated with all the old posts and history? It would be a shame to start over.

    • #171 by iceange1 on 2011.06.27 - 11:52 am

      There forums will not be reinstalled

  94. #172 by Rhonda ( emmajean) on 2011.06.06 - 12:30 pm

    I think those numbers look promising to me, and of course i will be grateful to have There back, in almost any conditions. with paz with no paz, hoods or no hoods, new avatar, ccr races or none. in fact if it were just like beta times i’d really be happy. the world was a much smaller loving place then. i think i miss the virtual landscapes, the sounds and the friends I’ve made most of all. ‘sigh
    just waiting..

    • #173 by dakotaman on 2011.06.09 - 12:35 am

      I’m with ya, Emma!! I’ll be back for that first race (provided buggies are operational), which I presume will be at the beach HQ!! Can’t wait to see you all again!!


  95. #174 by Doctor_Evil on 2011.06.06 - 7:48 am

    Heh, now i know why i never received a callback when i left you a msg about purchasing There when the closeing was announced
    i look forward to its return

    • #175 by jimony on 2011.06.12 - 11:28 am

      I think that selling There to someone else, when Makena was using the same program for other businesses like education (Virtual Congress) and however many other ventures we didn’t know about would be similar to Coke selling Coke because the return of Classic Coke failed. It is a stretched metaphor, I know, but There couldn’t sell because they had other ventures besides There using the same tech. If MW sold There, he would most likely have to quit the other ventures, because selling There would mean he wouldn’t own the technology he is using elsewhere anymore.

      It appears those ventures just barely kept Makena alive long enough to be able to reconsider re-opening There under more promising financial tactics. I also believe MW never wanted to sell because along with not wanting to quit the other ventures he also hoped to one day bring There back. Thanks Michael.

      • #176 by jimony on 2011.06.12 - 12:56 pm

        Also, selling There could have meant the end of There because it would have been out of MW’s control. He obviously wants There to come back and if he sold it, it could have meant that the new owner would have the say of whether it was viable or not. That new owner may not have had the skill and know how that MW has. I don’t think he wanted to make that gamble, no matter how much he may or may not have been offered. Just imagine if someone bought it, couldn’t make a go of it and then sold it or gave it away. Imagine if Reid Iford got his hands on it? I am so glad MW didn’t sell it out!

  96. #177 by maverickfred on 2011.06.06 - 4:09 am

    /day guys just one thing hear in aussie land its cost you over $50 to go to a movie thats 2 people . to hire a dvd overnight well cost you $4 so $10 a month in there is cheap and DW I THANK YOU .
    i miss my building and raceing my buggy and meeting new people i was a senior island guid and it was fun. i had over 1500 items in my invertry i love building .i was in there for over 5years and i still have not explored it all .see you all in there .

    • #178 by YankeeintheSouth on 2011.06.06 - 7:37 am

      Oh wow then There will definetly be a cheaper entertainment for ya!

  97. #179 by Bedlam1 on 2011.06.05 - 5:22 pm

    Yes I was just meaning it would be great if it takes off to the point where it can be reduced. I wasnt crying poor mouth…!0 dollars is very affordable for me..Its the others that I wonder about. Many people wont be able to do it.I was just thinking how it might be years down the road..

    • #180 by YankeeintheSouth on 2011.06.06 - 7:36 am

      Well I hope you get back in There Bedlam…. we will have to get the bear outfits on and show how to shake it, lol.

  98. #181 by kissdank on 2011.06.05 - 5:14 pm

    i had a account on kissdank did it save all my thngs mw?????

    • #182 by Bumpin42 on 2011.06.06 - 9:02 am

      Kissdank Yes you will get everything on your account back once you pay and login, It may take two or three days but you`ll get it, Hope this helps you.

  99. #183 by toufovou on 2011.06.04 - 11:21 am

    Dunno if anybody has noticed or if this has been mentioned before but the operating costs table has gone a little “nuts”. Probably a wordpress glitch or something!!!!

  100. #184 by Dee on 2011.06.04 - 10:48 am

    Mr. Wilson,

    I noticed that you have listed an unpaid engineer. As a current business major, I was wondering if you are looking for any unpaid interns?

  101. #185 by hessa on 2011.06.03 - 10:05 pm

    id do anything to play its my Dream-come true =D

  102. #186 by Tiggy on 2011.06.03 - 3:50 am

    I’ve also noted you haven’t even included things like real life building lease or rent costs, utilities like electric water and gas, building maintenence costs (janitors, cleaning personel, repair and groundskeeping).


    • #187 by Michael Wilson on 2011.06.03 - 5:21 am

      If you check below, you’ll see I’m footing the biil for that.

      • #188 by Tiggy on 2011.06.03 - 10:14 am

        Holy Crap!.. That is incredibly generous! I really hope alot of us get back in game so hopefully it’ll maybe turn a profit to cover those costs.

        I’ll try to get my years worth of membership saved asap!

        (btw.. This is Lady Tig, and I’m sorry if I made you mad in any of my really old posts and apologise most sincerely for what I said)

      • #189 by xSnoopy on 2011.06.03 - 3:28 pm

        DON’T believe her!! .. Tig is just kissing up so that you will open up and she will get to slide my butt around with her new, super duper, water cooled computer!!
        Little does she know that I will slide HER all over Zephyr with my sub $300 dollar “tabletop” computer.
        Yes, that’s right!! TABLETOP .. think about it!
        She probably scored 16,000 on 3DMark06 graphics test BUT she is still DIALUP.
        OH YEAH!! Surprise, SURPRISE !!
        Tig, Your toast! πŸ™‚

      • #190 by Tiggy on 2011.06.03 - 4:31 pm

        Keep on topic Snoopy or MW will pop you in a cage in the middle of Zephyr in pink boxers… for LIFE

      • #191 by Bumpin42 on 2011.06.03 - 4:44 pm

        One word, GRIEFER.

      • #192 by xSnoopy on 2011.06.03 - 6:29 pm

        You wouldn’t do that to me, would you Michael?
        OMG, YOU WOULD!!
        I think both Tig and Bump have a thing for pink boxers, don’t ya!!
        Oh, ya, a little off topic .. Sorry, even at my age I am chomping at the bit to get back to the best damn game online!!
        Come on Michael, lets see some numbers in the “Total Income” column !!

      • #193 by Ant1977 on 2011.06.03 - 8:17 pm

        Joe Arpaio loves issuing Pink boxers to all his visitors.

      • #194 by xSnoopy on 2011.06.04 - 8:19 am

        Is that a self description Bump or are you just fishing for an angry response?

      • #195 by Bumpin42 on 2011.06.04 - 9:10 am

        If i was fishing for you snoop i`d have to ask you for some of your griefer bait.

      • #196 by xSnoopy on 2011.06.04 - 2:43 pm

        You sir have been successful, but not here in MW’s blog.
        Your gonna have to wait for the tug on your line.
        Be patient, we will see you in There.

      • #197 by Bumpin42 on 2011.06.04 - 3:45 pm

        Thats a deal.

  103. #198 by Malloo on 2011.06.03 - 1:46 am

    what you need to show before you do anything is the developer program and how hardcore developers will “exchange” tbux for real money. Developers are a big part of a game like this content is what keeps people playing. Im more interested in how all that will work out. seeing as how there will be no more 3rd party selling. (washing)

    • #199 by Beta2003 on 2011.06.06 - 7:20 am

      Considering that the developer program looks to be a little further down the list of achievements, I wouldn’t want them to get distracted by trying to ‘guess’ how that will work before other parts of the puzzle have been solved.

      First up is allowing us to register and subscribe for ThereIM so Makena and everyone else can see who is really serious about There returning.

      While many of us are very interested in how Developers will be incentivised to produce items for There, most members don’t (yet?) create items and some will produce items without any need for financial gain. Lets not get derailed before the train is even on the track. πŸ™‚

  104. #200 by Bedlam1 on 2011.06.02 - 5:44 pm

    Im on Board,The Transparency aproach is nice But i nevr considered how it could be interpreted by members..Im an optimist,Id like to think once it get off and running that the cost could be slowly reduced to under 5 dollars a month, But only if it could still be operational.
    Im so looking forward to the re opening….Ive tied numerious worlds and NONE compare to
    Actually a movie once a month would cost about the same amount..Just one way to look at it..
    Like other I really Appreciate the efforts being made to get it re opened…

    • #201 by YankeeintheSouth on 2011.06.03 - 10:32 am

      Waving, good to see you out and about on other sites Bedlam, hehe! Actually if your like me and get popcorn/ a drink with the movie, There will be cheaper, lol

    • #202 by Sara on 2011.06.03 - 1:09 pm

      We can’t keep crying poorhouse on this company. What is everybody going to do? If they start profiting you will quit if they don’t lower it down to 10 cents a day? They have debt to pay off. Nobody invests millions into a concept like this in order to get chicken feed back. At least they don’t want to. Lets not cry about a lousy 10 dollars. I will pay my 10 lousy bucks to play a month in There. Others can go see the Rise of the Planet of the Apes and spend 20.00. So I get my value. Don’t tell me that There is only worth 5.00 a month to enjoy. Sure it would be nice to have the place run with a big profit on tbucks alone. But it wasn’t working. The economy was hit hard and so was There.

      I am not so sure about this transparency thing Just as soon as they make some money we will have to hear all the people wanting it cheaper or for free. Just turn off this blog and put the price out there and don’t tell anybody a thing. Take it or leave it. Go to SL where you have nothing to drive but junk and nowhere to drive it. In There you have a big virtual world with open spaces. Great landscapes. I am looking forward to going in Why don’t you quit something else like your movie channels for 50 dollars a month? And get netflix. Then easily pay There the measily 10 dollars. Think about it.

      • #203 by Michael Wilson on 2011.06.03 - 1:13 pm

        Isn’t it “Crying PoorMouth”?

      • #204 by YankeeintheSouth on 2011.06.04 - 1:52 am

        Sara, I’m not sure who your replying to Bedlam or me but neither was crying poorhouse. I think your barking up the wrong tree. I took Bedlam’s post as “just inquiring” if the cost would reduce eventually. Your post belongs on those that are actually complaining about the price to start off the site. As for me I support the $10 fee, I actually thought he should of charged ages ago. I played games that I had to pay more then $10 and they were not half as good as Sometimes when you get annoyed with a constant complaint on a site, its best to direct it to the proper place. Alot of bickering,complaining lately. Cant we all just sit back, smile that There is opening and let MW do his magic to reopen There in peace?

      • #205 by maverickfred on 2011.06.06 - 4:08 am

        g/day guys just one thing hear in aussie land its cost you over $50 to go to a movie thats 2 people . to hire a dvd overnight well cost you $4 so $10 a month in there is cheap and DW I THANK YOU .
        i miss my building and raceing my buggy and meeting new people i was a senior island guid and it was fun. i had over 1500 items in my invertry i love building .i was in there for over 5years and i still have not explored it all .see you all in there .

    • #206 by Seg_Vio on 2011.06.12 - 10:11 pm

      I think for as little as the employees are working for they deserve iPhones and free monthly services at the VERY least. For anyone making a big deal out of the $200.00 , that does little to make up for the low pay they are working for. Be greatful that the talent that creates such a great virtual world comes so cheaply!

  105. #207 by justin on 2011.06.02 - 3:57 pm

    So i would like to know under the cell phone section why is it 200 dollars? I mean what kinda phone’s do you need? go with a cheaper provider or something to cut costs!!!

    • #208 by Rebecca McArthur on 2011.06.03 - 5:05 am

      Lord why is everyone so fixated on the dumb cell phones? 200 is not much for corporate cell phones. In fact, this is the most bare bones budget I’ve ever seen professionally… it looks a tiny bit over-optimistic to me.

  106. #209 by Lets_ Help_There2 on 2011.06.02 - 3:53 pm

    For us Therians to help advertise and to bring traffic to There2. Is word of mouth. When There closed and I went to that dreadful world known as Second Life. I met up with people who had SL cars and racing cars and events. If you could call those things cars. I told them about There and our cars. They had never heard of There. I was a little shocked. I was like, gee whiz! You thank you have cars? I was laughing to myself, their cars were a joke! I thought man if only I could show them REAL CARS during the years There was opened. All of us should have brought over more people from SL just by word of mouth.

    But know we have a chance, I would bet many SL players are looking for something new. When you tell SL players about There2. Don’t tell them the past. Don’t be pushy about how There2 is better than SL. Be subtle telling them about another virtual world. There are 2 main things There2 has over SL. You can tell them, about our large world with great landscapes with BIG Mt.s. An of our great vehicles.
    Don’t for get the other virtual worlds, we can pull people away from!

    So get with it you Therians, let bring more people to There2!

    PS. Thanks Mr. Wilson for all you have done for us over the years!

  107. #210 by satarell on 2011.06.02 - 2:54 pm

    I think its awesome you have health care for employees wish more employers took that serous it is important.

  108. #211 by James White on 2011.06.02 - 1:14 pm

    This is a summary of all expenses?

    I myself, Chartered accountant, from the few data i can see, with what might be your budget, we dont know, but with a good plan, it can shoot up.

    I was going through the survey results and i tried to base myself on the few data that i managed to extract.

    The survey did not hit all users right away (i myself did not check my there account mailbox until i was told by a friend while at the same time just about to check the website of which i do regularly since it closed.

    With around 2000 users monthly (the strict minimum) paying $10 per month

    With around 1000 of them (minimum again) buying $10 worth of Tbux (strict minimum again)

    With the auction percentage

    With the developer programs submitting their designs

    With sales from the shop

    (the most common ways i was referring to – let me know if i missed something)

    I do think that you will begin by loss making but not that much you might be expecting (loss making in the first month should be considered since people would rather check if they repocessed everything they had and ensure that they set everything straight and meet others etcetera)

    While in the next two to three months, you would hit the break even and start raising the head just above the line

    And as soon as you kick off again, people wont even talked about why there closed, or had it ever closed, but it would be just a ‘one year break’ in the past…

    And with this, would be what could happen best!

    Thumbs up and fingers crossed !

    • #212 by Michael Wilson on 2011.06.02 - 1:20 pm

      I actually need to update this with some (currently $0) line items: Marketing (Google Ad Placement, etc), Legal (yes, we do have legal fees), etc. I’ll try and do that in the next couple of days.

      • #213 by James White on 2011.06.03 - 7:23 pm

        @Michael / Therians Fan no, two currencies would be too much.

        one currency is good. what could be done is allow like $5 worth of tbux every month when a user pays $10 monthly subscription. (also allow subscription to be paid by the equivalent number of Tbux) this would encourage people for events and other games to earn prizes. This will also enable those who do not have access to cards / paypal (yes, there are a few countries that if i remember, do not have access) to pay in some way.

        @Marianne Mohr
        I did not add up because these figures will of course fluctuate and we need to allow for variances up and down. eitherway, lets say the variance would be $5000 in any direction, this would mean that the first month could be 5000 profit or 5000 loss, the future is uncertain. We all have to hope for the best, its what we can do.

        On the second month, the variances will reduce to $2000 in loss direction and increase to $8000 in profit direction (example figures, all of them) and at the end of month three, he would break even or make a profit of $10,000. As from this point, after 3 months (the third quarter of the year being his first year) he would be able to assess his performance, and mount a dashboard with full cost, comparative study, with a full fledge analysis which can be easily done with data obtained from reports from the databases, know if he can push further and get good business out of it, or not.

    • #214 by James White on 2011.06.02 - 1:33 pm

      That would be great.

      Of course, Who doesnt have legal fees…

      From a strategic point of view, again, look into the possibility of maximising the use of facebook. Free marketing tool, it holds a population of over 300 million users.

      The page will instantly grow to thousands of likes and advertising the like box to all users of facebook might cost as low as 0.10 per click with a budget of 1 dollar per day (the strict minimum) it would cost only $365 for a year to market it with the world’s biggest crowd…

      • #215 by Michael Wilson on 2011.06.02 - 2:34 pm

        We actually tried Facebook ads once. The response was…suboptimal.

      • #216 by Therians Fan on 2011.06.03 - 10:30 am

        I never saw a ad on Facebook. Interesting….What about having 2 currency, one could be tbux currency we used, and another one would be a promotional currency. Getting different sponsors to allow to advertise on a website something how IMVU does it? Would that work?

    • #217 by Marianne Mohr on 2011.06.03 - 3:25 am

      James as an accountant did you add up your numbers? Tell me if my math is incorrect, but I get a $7,961 profit month#1:

      2000 x $10 = $20,000
      1000 $10 Tbux = $10,000
      Auction percentage = $3,000
      Developer submits = $2,000
      Sales from the shop = $2,000

      You forgot Real Estate/PAZ = $2,000 (conservative)

      Income (month): $39,000.00
      Expense (month): $31,039.00
      Profit (or loss): $ 7,961.00

      • #218 by James White on 2011.06.03 - 7:24 pm

        @Marianne Mohr
        I did not add up because these figures will of course fluctuate and we need to allow for variances up and down. eitherway, lets say the variance would be $5000 in any direction, this would mean that the first month could be 5000 profit or 5000 loss, the future is uncertain. We all have to hope for the best, its what we can do.

        On the second month, the variances will reduce to $2000 in loss direction and increase to $8000 in profit direction (example figures, all of them) and at the end of month three, he would break even or make a profit of $10,000. As from this point, after 3 months (the third quarter of the year being his first year) he would be able to assess his performance, and mount a dashboard with full cost, comparative study, with a full fledge analysis which can be easily done with data obtained from reports from the databases, know if he can push further and get good business out of it, or not.

  109. #219 by Sara on 2011.06.02 - 12:35 pm

    Scratch what I said about how Linda and Tommy will not get their jobs back. I don’t have to lecture you on that. I just read the notes above.

    (1) 05/01/2011 Staffing is (1) Engineer, (1) Systems Administration, (1) P/T Customer Support, (1) P/T Accounting, (.5) Engineer (unpaid), (1) CEO (unpaid)

    Sounds pretty shoestring to me. Lean mean avatar machine! Thanks to the 5 Engineers that are unpaid. Those people will definitely have good karma in life.
    And you also. Wow! Now let them cry free. I don’t hear you crying that you aren’t getting a million a year. You get what you pay for in virtual worlds. Go to one
    that is free and you will not have the enjoyment and fun that will bring for mere pennies a day.

  110. #221 by Sara on 2011.06.02 - 9:14 am

    It could be 30,000 a month.5,000 a month I just threw out there. That is better than being in the red anyway. I just want There to make it. If Active Worlds can do it certainly can do it. There has a lot more going for it. I think they stay in business because of low overhead. They survive on a shoestring. Try to do that yourself. I wouldn’t hire people back just to be nice. You don’t need many employees. I know how There people are. They will volunteer. There is no need to pay someone 2,000 a month to pretend to be some bigshot greeter that keeps the avatar machine all in line. They don’t do anything that the volunteers can’t do. Be tough. Linda and Tommy will not get their jobs back. Sorry to say. It is for the life of the company.

  111. #222 by Sara on 2011.06.02 - 9:07 am

    I wonder how big of a cusion of profit There can have before they start saying your stealing? There are a lot of idiots out there. Oh I see 10,000 in profit. That isn’t fair! They are stealing from us and doing us dirty! What is good profit for this company? What is something that you guys(meaning women too) have sat around talking about as a company that would be a success? 5,000 a month in profit? What is something that would keep this company happy long term? I wonder. It might be rhetorical since you don’t answer but a few percent. But this is the question I ask myself anyway. Have a nice day. I hope everything is going well and it right on schedule to open There ASAP.

    • #223 by Michael Wilson on 2011.06.02 - 9:21 am

      When we turn a profit, we’re going to be allocating it between more employees (engineers, C/S, artists), marketing, and, yes, whittling down the debt There’s incurred over the years (in that order). But, we’re not even at Break Even, so I’m not going there yet.

      • #224 by DavyRocket on 2011.06.02 - 2:16 pm

        Hey don’t forget MW, some of us are willing to donate our time,and work to help out.

  112. #225 by Allie on 2011.06.01 - 4:07 pm

    I will never take There for granted ever again.

  113. #226 by Winston on 2011.06.01 - 3:46 pm

    I don’t think your employees are contributing enough to their 401(k)s. You’re never too young to be thinking about retirement you know.

  114. #227 by Marianne Mohr on 2011.06.01 - 1:15 pm

    When THERE2 succeeds, I think this “transparency story” ought to be written up and submitted to Businessweek or Forbes: The New Capitalism, how one entrepreneur invited his potential customers to understand and contribute to profitability. This might piss off other CEOs who are not as dedicated to throw in their (1.5) efforts for free as Mr. Wilson has done!

  115. #228 by Bronnieb59 on 2011.06.01 - 11:53 am

    How many people when buying a product are able to see where their money goes? None (unless your a stock holder)…you know why …cos it’s none of their business. You are paying for the fun! If your not having fun you stop paying…and if you want free fun then take your ball to the park! I really don’t see the need for There’s finances to be made public….I think personally (correct me if I am wrong) …Mr Wilson is doing this simply as a way for everyone playing to understand on the chance that it does not succeed. We are not buying stocks we are being entertained!!! So my question to people complaining about paying…What other activity do you do that is paid for by someone else? Remember “money makes the THERE World go round”. πŸ™‚

  116. #229 by Chrisrc2006 on 2011.06.01 - 10:44 am

    What about all of the people who buy and resell tbux? I know that you guys lose money off of this. Are you going to try to find a way to bring this to a stop?

    • #230 by Ant1977 on 2011.06.01 - 2:12 pm

      It has been mentioned many times already that tbux resellers will be forbidden in the new There.

  117. #231 by hugsalot on 2011.06.01 - 9:14 am

    I’m no math wiz but $32k a month really doesn’t sound that expensive considering the millions that are spent on a DAILY basis elsewhere. However you’ll need about 3000 users paying $10 a month to just barely break even. I hope you have some money in reserve for this new venture MW. Fortunately these are projected costs, and things like bandwidth usage tend to fluctuate. I think you can also negotiate your usage and ISP fees somewhat.

    So every employee has 2 cell phones? why?

    And you guys get vision and dental? Gee I want in on that! πŸ™‚

    • #232 by Michael Wilson on 2011.06.01 - 10:48 am

      It doesn’t say anywhere that every employee has two cell phones, and I have now spent more time answering that question than it deserved.

      • #233 by Ant1977 on 2011.06.01 - 11:13 am

        You have Cell Phones listed twice at $200.00, maybe that’s why she thought you were giving employees 2 cell phones? When it’s possible that only 2 employees will get a cell phone at $200.00 for each one. I know my cell phone is around 250 a month.

      • #234 by Michael Wilson on 2011.06.01 - 11:36 am

        Now, see, that’s a helpful comment. Let me see what that’s about. It’s probably a double entry.

      • #235 by Michael Wilson on 2011.06.01 - 12:41 pm

        Fixed, thanks Ant!

    • #236 by Winston on 2011.06.01 - 3:51 pm

      Sweet holy cow! I was reading on the wall the other day at a certain “red and yellow” establishment that the entry level employees get vision and dental. Vision and dental are probably the LEAST expensive benefit provided today.

    • #237 by knighthawk101 on 2011.06.02 - 7:30 am

      Millions?? I never saw that anywhere.. and IMHO uhhh yeah 32K is alot of money to layout on a bet, MW thanks for taking that bet. and that was only month number 1.

      • #238 by Michael Wilson on 2011.06.02 - 7:59 am

        Millions have been “bet” on There since 1997. Heck, since 2005 even. 2009 even.

      • #239 by knighthawk01 on 2011.06.04 - 3:45 pm

        fair enough, wow, now I’ve seen “millions being bet on this” just, wow!!!

  118. #240 by Elie halaby on 2011.05.31 - 9:59 pm

    send me an Email.for updates I’m a pre therian premium and I’d like to be back to that perfect world

  119. #241 by Phillip on 2011.05.31 - 7:23 pm

    this is what i know ppl will always want something for free, 10 bucks is nothing for a game a month But one thing is for sure there can be no money made until it is open

  120. #242 by Ltdave on 2011.05.31 - 7:19 pm

    OK Here it is lets stop talking about it and open ThereIm so you can start making money and we can start playing the game and then everyone is happy.

  121. #243 by BABS on 2011.05.31 - 5:36 pm

    Very interesting. Thank you for sharing. ‘tu

  122. #244 by Sara on 2011.05.31 - 4:30 pm

    Who am I to say this disclosure to the users of an online social environment is unprecedented lol. How would I know? I just like the word. What I meant to say is I like seeing the numbers and I am glad you are making us part of it. Plain and simple.

  123. #245 by Michael on 2011.05.31 - 3:10 pm

    MW your doing a great job doing this for us past/future users of Thank you for taking these extra steps in our name.

    • #246 by MissisElle on 2011.08.24 - 4:17 am

      respect for this.

  124. #247 by Alwuzhere on 2011.05.31 - 2:37 pm

    Enough talk already! Just turn it back on. I have my credit card right here lol. Glad to see that there is coming back. HURRY!!!

  125. #248 by Therefan123 on 2011.05.31 - 2:04 pm

    Wow MW this is really great for some. It will help us thereians tell how much your loosing and if we should buy more things or not. Truthfully its great! Makes me wonder how you been running it all these years.

  126. #249 by NoBioN on 2011.05.31 - 1:48 pm

    Requesting the if’s to be corrected to when’s πŸ™‚

    • #250 by jimony on 2011.06.03 - 3:29 am

      Requesting the ‘whens’ to be corrected to ‘Right Now!’

  127. #251 by Karmapup on 2011.05.31 - 1:33 pm

    “I want everyone to remember that I’m not sure if anyone has ever done this before (exposing the costs it takes to run a company like this so transparently). I was reminded (and, not surprised) that Uru Online does this (though I couldn’t find it). ” -MW^

    As far as I am ‘aware’, Myst online does not display near this level of transparency. They created the CAVCON meter, CAVCON (Cavern Condition) is loosely based on the Armed Forces’ DEFCON (Defense Readiness Condition), which most of us know from the movie Wargames. πŸ™‚ It reflects the financial health of Myst Online. ( link to the Myst Online Forum Page which talks about the meter)

    Unless there is something that I am not currently aware of, they do not now, nor have they ever released actual expense and income data, certainly not to the extent to what you have done here. This is not a criticism of Myst Online, I love the place, just a statement of ‘what is.’ ( as far as I know it)

    • #252 by jimony on 2011.05.31 - 2:04 pm

      There was another company that promised an even greater level of transparency.

      • #253 by jimony on 2011.06.01 - 3:11 pm

        They banned people who didn’t follow blindly but asked questions, but they succeeded in the transparency, as their actions were transparent.

  128. #254 by DaraDalton on 2011.05.31 - 1:05 pm

    Just curious – in regard to the projected monthly costs – about why there is nothing related to overhead costs for the physical facility where you work? I would expect to see included items such as Rent, Utilities, Office Supplies and others. Or maybe I just think like the Office Admin that I am?? Unless this is one person (MW?) working from home? πŸ™‚

    • #255 by Michael Wilson on 2011.05.31 - 1:17 pm

      I’m paying the rent for the few non-remote people. If we get more non-remote people, There can pay the rent.

  129. #256 by Cellophane on 2011.05.31 - 12:33 pm

    I have always considered every US American Dollar I’ve spent in to be an ‘investment’ in entertainment, soul enrichment (thank you Papa Bear, Joachim and Dream for those long, enjoyable conversations) and flat out wonder… In order for any ‘world’ to work there must be money. I find it extremely cool that MW is pulling together and putting up a spreadsheet on costs. And I believe completely that if people in the ‘old’ There could have seen the issues where money was concerned it would NOT have made a difference. I believe that the conspiracy crazed whackjobs would have said that the ‘owner’s were fudging number to take millions of bucks and running- which is exactly what many so called ‘core’ members of the ‘old’ There whispered about in the back rooms and such in the ‘old’ There.

    This time around, if we are lucky enough to have another go, everyone can see everything where the bottom line is concerned. And as most of those excited to rejoin the ‘new’ There understand there will be a monthly fee- the number of us rejoining will happily pay the fee to rejoin. If the ‘new’ There begins to suffer financially- we will have a choice as members whether to pay higher monthly fees to keep the world open or to let the ‘new’ There go kaput.

    All the the endless comments going in circles are tiring and typical. I am so very glad MW is now moderating comments. Even this comment merits being shelved due to redundancy- but what I am trying to say in my own special way is that there are people such as myself who would give up buying stuff in the ‘new’ There in lieu of paying even MORE than 10 bucks a month for the privilege and joy of simply having the ability to boot up our laptops or computers and see the ‘There is Open’ line in the sign on page.

    I’d pay more than 10 bucks to be able to do THAT again! ❀

  130. #257 by Jessica_Dindal on 2011.05.31 - 11:39 am

    Two ideas ideas.
    Have some sort of deal. Like you buy six months in advance, you get like 2k tbux, or some sort of allowance each month.
    For tbux have sales, buy some and get some free. Or buy say..20-30k(or more) and get a free buggy, for a week or something. Maybe better gifts if you purchase more. Or something like a points program.

    Just something to make us want to get more(besides shopping of course). πŸ™‚

  131. #258 by Hexxxis on 2011.05.31 - 11:34 am


    • #259 by Hexxxis on 2011.05.31 - 11:57 am

      -_- plus 50$ more cause I cant remember which avi has all my stuff

  132. #260 by GaryBob on 2011.05.31 - 11:26 am

    Where, exactly, does one find half of an engineer? And more importantly, which half is it? πŸ˜›

    Seriously though, it’s encouraging to see data like this and humbling to note that the majority of the staff is currently part-time or unpaid – it really shows the dedication to reopening There.

    Thank you, truly, for all the work you and your staff are doing.

  133. #261 by Escape on 2011.05.31 - 11:11 am

    I am curious to know about the “unpaid engineer” on staff and want to thank that person, (you also CEO), for making it possible to get Our World back to where it belongs.

    • #262 by Michael Wilson on 2011.05.31 - 11:18 am

      That’s me. I wear multiple hats.

      • #263 by Escape on 2011.05.31 - 11:55 am

        Not that I am amazed, just that ‘wearing different hats’ appears to be indicitave of your passion for pursuing excellence where warranted!

      • #264 by Michael Wilson on 2011.05.31 - 12:04 pm

        I always thought it was rampant indecision on my fashion choices, or some sort of multiple personality disorder.

      • #265 by Escape on 2011.05.31 - 12:35 pm

        It’s all about us..We are There….

      • #266 by mimi06 on 2011.06.01 - 2:35 pm

        and an awsome leather jacket too.. rofl.. hmmm never did get me one of those leathers.. can I buy yours MW? seriously.. Thank you.. something to smile everyday about sure has made a difference in such a sad RL world we live in..even tho some call it a “game”.. its a place like no other, to take your mind off stressful everyday living.. you cant get that ina movie for 2 hours.. pay your 20 bucks go in come out pickin popcorn from your teeth..go home the end..with THERE……… it was ALWAYS waiting.. for those of you that say you cannot afford $10.00.. I feel bad.. your about to miss out on the best form of entertainment going.. (pull a tooth and beg the toothfairy for 10 buxs rofl)

        back to my cornor πŸ™‚

  134. #267 by Marianne Mohr on 2011.05.31 - 11:02 am

    Thank you for the update. It’s heartening to see decent salaries which will retain great people, and such reasonable overhead! You’ve pared the business model down to a level that’s sure to succeed. Hopefully the loyal investors CAN get their return as THERE2 cranks back up. Though I was concerned about that poor .5 engineer working for zip ;0)

    Count me in for an inclusive type membership at $20+ to include real estate rental and a tbux stipend.

  135. #268 by jonathan5k2006 on 2011.05.31 - 10:37 am

    It makes sense not to have it free because when you walk into a shop to buy something you cant have the product for nothing…… Im wiling to pay πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ people who want things for FREE – Find Secondlife :))) ooosh!

    • #269 by Amxscott on 2011.05.31 - 2:59 pm

      “It makes sense not to have it free because when you walk into a shop to buy something you cant have the product for nothing”

      Unless you are Lindsay Lohan then of course you can walk into a shop and walk out with stuff πŸ™‚

      • #270 by Ant1977 on 2011.05.31 - 5:30 pm

        She learned it from Winona Ryder

      • #271 by jonathan5k2006 on 2011.06.01 - 1:16 am

        lmao yeah sounds about right lol! πŸ™‚ cant wait πŸ™‚ least our money will go to something useful πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

  136. #272 by There Lover on 2011.05.31 - 10:34 am

    Sad to see that no uncome has came this month! But next month If ThereIM is up and running I’m pretty sure you can see some sort of income. πŸ˜€

  137. #273 by Sara on 2011.05.31 - 9:24 am

    I like seeing the numbers here. And I think it is good for all those I WANT IT FREE people to stop begging and crying about it when they actually see that There is a business and it has to make a profit. I think you should also put a donate button on this place in case in the beginning it falls a little short until the word gets out and you build business back up. Great thinking. Unprecedented disclosure involving the people with the numbers. It will keep us inspired to keep the money rolling in.

  138. #274 by O Yah on 2011.05.31 - 8:13 am

    I you seriously want to succeed, pay tithes to God (Jesus) monthly….you-will-never-go-wrong…dead serious. That’s what the CEO of Walmart does (he died about a year ago or so btw). Follow the rules in thee hand book: The Word (a.k.a Bible KJV). Have a good day! πŸ˜€

    • #275 by Jane Meyers on 2011.05.31 - 11:05 am

      That’s a stretch considering that not everybody believes in god. I’m sort of curious to know what MW’s religion is now? Of course I understand that that’s personal information that he wouldn’t want to give out because many people stereotype simply because of a different religion.

      • #276 by jimony on 2011.05.31 - 11:49 am

        MW is a devout Thereian. I believe he has been ordained in the mission.

      • #277 by SaltySilver on 2011.05.31 - 3:30 pm

        92 percent believe in God or a universal spirit……

      • #278 by jimony on 2011.06.01 - 1:10 pm

        92% of those who profess a faith in a higher power are less devout then MW is in Thereianity.
        (I am not being a suckup, just a commedian.)

    • #279 by Wendy Stoll on 2011.06.02 - 2:27 am

      I don’t think this is a place for proselytizing. And I also don’t think $10 has been decided. It should probably be more.

  139. #280 by RMDesigns on 2011.05.31 - 6:13 am

    I’m not trying to offend anyone here, but those that are saying $10 is too much then you probably still live with your parents…. “Or are under 18 and don’t know what real life is.”

    • #281 by Deleight on 2011.05.31 - 10:28 am

      lol agreed. I think $10 a month is quite reasonable… many MMOs are $20. You can’t even go to a movie for $10 a person.

      • #282 by MissisElle on 2011.08.24 - 4:14 am

        lmfao u’r right ahahaaha!

    • #283 by Libee on 2011.05.31 - 10:46 am

      Have to agree with you on that one! Ten dollars is approx 33 cents a day! Not much really, and There is woth it lol

      • #284 by Libee on 2011.05.31 - 10:47 am

        *Worth! EEEEEK! My bad!

  140. #285 by timida on 2011.05.30 - 8:14 pm

    im really happy

  141. #286 by There Believer on 2011.05.29 - 3:57 pm

    You will pay if you want to play bad enough!! plain and simple. Or you wouldn’t be here on this blog checking to see if There is really reopening! So STOP WITH THE STUPID REPEATED COMMENTS!! READ THE OTHER COMMENTS FIRST BEFORE POSTING A NEW COMMENT!!! Stop and think about it! look at all of the comments on this blog and ask yourself if you were being asked all these questions, would you do anything for half the people that have made stupid comments on here? Whats Michael Wilson’s incentive for putting up with all of this crap? The big 10 dollars a month he’s gonna get for how many months? It takes over 31,000 dollars just run the basics and he will need 3,100 people buying accounts!

  142. #287 by ericman1967 on 2011.05.29 - 3:39 pm

    There is a service, run by people with great skills for producing something very interesting. I don’t think anyone out there would take a job with There at any level and do it for free! And as far as cost, to run There, I suggest anyone who thinks MAKENA is making a fortune go try to set up their own Virtual world and see if you can get it off the ground!! I never understood how There made their budget before relying on 10 dollar lifetime customers and the prospect of T-Bux sales, If none of those things happened, then they would be in the red every month. It takes a lot to run a successful company! I applaud Michael for even entertaining a fraction of the Ignorant, and arrogant comments, and repeated questions that get asked OVER AND OVER. I see comments about how a person wouldn’t pay 10 bucks a month to play this game. My question to them is, Why are you even on this blog? If 10 bucks a month is that big of a deal to you, then you probably better find something else to do. I mean jeez people 10 bucks a month?.This comment obviously is not about every comment I have seen on here, But from what I have seen if Makena expects to run There and possibly make a buck or two, people think they are obligated to explain every detail of their comings and goings as if every customer is a percentage investor. Call Bill Gates and ask him why if every PC in the world runs Windows, Why do they charge so much for the program? And see what you get told!

    • #288 by xSnoopy on 2011.05.30 - 2:26 pm

      Well said!
      Like you, I to am tired of hearing people whining about the same things over and over. The opening of ThereIM could still be a month off. The opening of the common areas COULD be 2 to 6 months from now and yet the questions keep coming.
      You would think they would get the message when their questions go unanswered. I guess they think they can harass him until he answers them.
      He has said it costs10’s of millions of dollars for this restart. All they can think about is a lousy few hundred to a couple of thousand they have “invested” in There.
      I have spent a few hundred dollars in There and you sure as hell ain’t going to hear me crying about it.

      • #289 by Michael Wilson on 2011.05.30 - 5:01 pm

        Correction: It won’t takes tens of millions to restart There, but it will cost money, which you will see on the cost columns as months like this one where we bring in…nothing :-).

      • #290 by Greenie on 2011.05.31 - 4:06 pm

        Refering to “months like this one where we bring in…nothing”

        I maintained a very special premium paz environment most of my 7 or so years in There. I was there when last my avie smiled. It would be a great loss to miss the opportunity to re-claim it as I left it, by a matter of time and who logs in and gets their belongings loaded to them first even if my paz had time on it when the power went out.

        I would be willing to put a down payment to reserve paz placement. I’ve put down payments on things throughout adulthood. It falls under the worth of the deal to each member.

        I’ve believed in the possiblities of THERE and the people who bring it life since first signing on as beta. I still believe in a future that colors our world in marvels of all sorts!

        Could something along the lines of -reserving our paz placements prior to re-opening- as a form of generating income while there is not yet product open to the members?

      • #291 by mimi06 on 2011.06.01 - 2:22 pm

        I’m ready, and can pay half year now.. or more.. anyone else rofl..

      • #292 by Bumpin42 on 2011.06.02 - 9:29 am

        Greenie i agree with you,If i could pay ahead of time to get my spots back i would in a second. Its the kinda of people who don`t have much money in the game and dont care about pazes that likes to put words in our mouths like harass and there the ones doing harassing everytime people talk about get there spots back, i call them griefers. But i love your place under water, All i can say is wow!! There`s was NO place like that in all of I hope you get it put back out so i can go back there. : )

    • #293 by toufovou on 2011.05.30 - 7:28 pm

      Ericman asked : “My question to them is, Why are you even on this blog? If 10 bucks a month is that big of a deal to you, then you probably better find something else to do. I mean jeez people 10 bucks a month?”

      The answer is that all them freemiums are here because the blog free!!!!!!!!!!!

      At least they won’t be around when There opens again!

  143. #294 by scroogeverse on 2011.05.29 - 11:11 am

    One thing There being closed has taught me is that we had it super easy when we were in There. I complained and whined all the time about things but since playing other games and other social worlds I have learned that There really was unique. I think all of us who have been homeless or settled for some other place would agree.

    I will admit it, I said March of ’10 I would never ever rejoin There if Michael Wilson were still in charge. I’ll admit it when I’m wrong and when I put my foot in my mouth. I was wrong about Skippy. I think maybe a part of it was that I am medicated now and not as angry, I don’t know. I’m up and down all the time still, trusting my doctor to make the right adjustments to get me somewhat normal. You know, I didn’t realize how lonely I was in other games until the possibility of There reopening was brought up. Did anyone else go through this? I have my activities outside of the internet but my time online has frankly sucked during the past year. I love Onverse but most of the members are teenagers and it doesn’t have the complexity that There had.

    I forgot why I started to write this (memory loss is one of the side effects I have to live with now). Maybe it was that a monthly fee isn’t so bad. I know I can burn 20 dollars really quickly renting movies for the weekend, and I’m a scrooge who really pinches his pennies. I want There to succeed so I will pay my monthly fee and buy Therebucks. I always wanted to hold competitions but my social phobia wouldn’t let me so maybe later this year I might be able to, if I am getting better.

    Wait, I remember what I was going to write. I wanted to thank Skippy for letting us know so much information. Personally, I think it shows how much you truly love and care about There. So yeah ‘tu πŸ™‚

    Don’t bother coming to Zephyr with your FF off, Skippy. I am done feeding with you because I think I am starting to like you. Perhaps we can even enjoy a game of spades in the not so distant future.

    • #295 by xSnoopy on 2011.05.30 - 2:12 pm

      Wait, WHAT?
      “Don’t bother coming to Zephyr with your FF off, Skippy. I am done feeding with you because I think I am starting to like you.”
      You and I shared similar feelings about “Skippy” πŸ™‚ after There closed and, like you, I started reading this blog and came to the realization that he is a guy that not only cares about his product but the people who use it.
      I suspect that the next time “Skippy” shows up in Zephyr he will be a lot more prepared to deal with us and our paintball fetish.

      • #296 by mimi06 on 2011.06.01 - 2:19 pm

        guys, guys.. rofl.. scroogy.. snoopy…………..I wana know how fast your hearts gona bang when that log in page is finally in front of you! never mind this paint ball stuffs.. geez.. think flowers, and MTS, and oceans, and,, ya ya ok..paint ball is your life.. rofl muahh πŸ™‚

      • #297 by xSnoopy on 2011.06.02 - 3:52 am

        Yes Mimi, it really is BUT meeting old friends and catching up will be running a close second on the to-do list.
        It will probably be 18 months since I’v had a chance to say hello to most of them.
        Whether that hello comes from VIOP or the muzzle of my paintball gun will be up to them. Either way, like you, it will be a crazy day when I can log Snoopy back into game.
        Considering my age, the first few days will consist of $*&@#**&^ keys! Which one do I press to teleport LOL
        Looking forward to seeing Tig sliding across Zephyr. She threw down the gauntlet in a recent email .. It’s going to be almost as much fun as looking at the Armageddon vid on UTube. πŸ™‚
        See yall in There.

  144. #298 by Jypsi on 2011.05.29 - 9:31 am

    I personally dont think 10.00 a month is bad,Thats really cheap entertainment, costs more than that to go to the movies. i will pay it gladly,i cant wait to be able to hang out in There again.

    • #299 by There Believer on 2011.05.29 - 4:00 pm

      I agree Julienne, nothing in life is free! Well said! πŸ™‚

  145. #300 by Julienne Myrlene on 2011.05.29 - 8:17 am

    Greece, it’s not crazy, it’s fine. It’s a sacrifice we all must do to help there come back! All those that cry about it are just kids. Cause if you played before and you spent $ on tbucks, why can you not pay $10 membership per month now? It’s simple, IF YOU CAN’T AFFORD TO PAY FOR MONTHLY MEMBERSHIP, THEN YOU CAN’T AFFORD TO BUY TBUCKS EITHER, WHICH MEANS THAT YOU CAN’T HELP THE GAME RE-OPEN AND STAY OPEN ANYWAY. So pitty for you. The ones that can, will do it, and it’s because we LOVE the game. NOTHING in this life is FREE, except the air we breath. Get that? There was NEVER FREE, cause even if you could be member before without paying, you still was limited and could NOT get anything cool WITHOUT buying tbucks with REAL MONEY. So it’s not much of a difference now. We should be happy it’s ONLY $10 and not $15 or $20. I will pay it excuse. Can’t wait for ThereIM πŸ™‚

  146. #301 by greece on 2011.05.29 - 6:29 am

    this is crazy why 10 $ 😦

    • #302 by JustinBeiber on 2011.05.29 - 8:08 am

      I’d pay $15.00 a month per avatar. I’d like to get one of my old beta avatars back for lifetime membership, then pay for two additional avatars. But if they are only $10.00/month then I can have all three if I need them. what the hell. Right? πŸ™‚
      Or maybe it will be $10.00 for the first one, then like $5.00 a month per additional avatar. That would be cool.
      Oh and I’m not really JustingBeiber, I’m a lifetime beta member in disguise. πŸ˜›

  147. #303 by RRTT on 2011.05.28 - 2:53 pm

    So about 31k per month. Hmm. So 3200 paying members @ $10 per month breaks even. Then all T$ and Real Estate are profit. It’s reasonable. Do you have any emergency plans in case you don’t see enough revenue? or will you just go for a few months, realize you can’t do it, then your closed again.

  148. #304 by MUNKY on 2011.05.28 - 1:02 pm

    MW.. will you be my there husband? xoxo

    • #305 by jimony on 2011.05.31 - 2:00 pm

      Can I be a Munky’s uncle?

      • #306 by musicmom on 2011.06.07 - 5:04 am

        lol jimony, can you be my rich uncle daddy Warbucks?

      • #307 by jimony on 2011.06.12 - 1:01 pm

        I can only be your uncle daddy warring bucks. (My bucks always seem to be in one fight or another. “Spend me on This!” “Nyet! Spend me on That!”) I only wish for peace in that vast desert landscape. Otherwise known as my bank account.

  149. #308 by toufovou on 2011.05.28 - 1:20 am

    Thanks for the update MW. Is it possible to say how many cloud servers are needed to run ‘There’ and which ones?
    Do you think they will be enough for ‘There’ to run fluently without lag and crashes?

  150. #309 by Escape on 2011.05.27 - 1:48 pm

    Thanks for the monthly ‘projected’ There Operating Cost(s)..

  151. #310 by RRTT on 2011.05.24 - 4:32 pm


    I know your busy, but will you be updating this section eventually?

  152. #311 by darkkkkyyy on 2011.05.24 - 2:06 am

    May I suggest, out of pure interest, you put it into a there2 beta or something?
    (Still pay costs) but as it’s in it’s beta process people can’t complain about market prices, bugs etc… as beta (Formally known as still in development but close to open gates) has a few bugs.

    I also like the sound of beta,makes me feel special to play there2 beta πŸ™‚

  153. #314 by Drifa on 2011.05.23 - 5:30 am

    im saving up for there im @@@ 5.53 cents -..- DANG FIVER DOLLLARSSSSSSSSSS

  154. #315 by Sydra on 2011.05.22 - 7:44 pm

    Will people with “LIfetime” accounts still be able to use this or will they have to still pay the 10 bucks a month.

  155. #316 by London on 2011.05.21 - 9:56 am

    I say 10.00$ a month is great, but how will the Tbucks work out? I guess understand like pay more. Ok MY REAL! QUESTION!. What if you have forgotten all your information! 😦 I beg you please like give us an email saying all our info. Even if you don’t ill sooo be in THERE :)!

  156. #317 by A used to be sad but then happy but know quite confused... person (You know me!) on 2011.05.20 - 6:19 pm

    Do we ay least have an estimated opening confirmation date (like around a month, or 2 months, a week?)

    • #318 by MmeOdileS AKA OdileS on 2011.05.21 - 9:24 am

      If you go to the home will find your answer I believe!

    • #319 by Julienne Myrlene on 2011.05.29 - 8:53 am

      Necroscope i see you didn’t read any of the other posts. In there2 there will be NO Greeters and NO Island Guides, as it will be 18+. So that is out of the question. We will all be “mature enough” to understand the game, it’s not that difficult. I think us that were IG’s before can surely keep doing that job on our own, without having to get a star for it, or stuff. The important thing is to help re-open the game and keeping it open.

  157. #320 by XNecroscopeX on 2011.05.20 - 3:23 pm

    Micahel Wilson I have a few questions:

    Is There2 going to have Greeters and Island Guides? If so, how, where and when can we apply?

    If we were Island Guides in There before it closed, will we be IGs when There re-opens?

    It’s quite clear that the paid positions for There2 are going to be for Engineers, Human Resources, etc… Have you guys taken into consideration paying some employees, like Greeters, with a free account and Therbucks?

    What if we had premium in There, will the premium account transfer over to There2?


    IG: XNecroscopeX

    • #321 by Julienne Myrlene on 2011.05.29 - 8:53 am

      Necroscope i see you didn’t read any of the other posts. In there2 there will be NO Greeters and NO Island Guides, as it will be 18+. So that is out of the question. We will all be β€œmature enough” to understand the game, it’s not that difficult. I think us that were IG’s before can surely keep doing that job on our own, without having to get a star for it, or stuff. The important thing is to help re-open the game and keeping it open.

    • #322 by Elizabeth Daniel on 2011.07.09 - 3:22 pm

      I would be interested in this too.
      For free.

  158. #323 by Robert Ricci on 2011.05.19 - 3:59 pm

    From the posts I see above…seems some are concerned about ” idle ” time auto log offs….pppfftttttt….seems some are concerned about making Tbucks for what ever they do….seems some desire more ” free zones ” ( I have been to many ” free zones ” and have found them almost empty )……but what ever the final decision is…..if ” There ” does make its comeback…my orginal avatar or not….I will be ..” There “.

  159. #324 by Edward on 2011.05.19 - 6:35 am

    I would love to see There open back up! It was so much fun! I Just hope its not or gets to a repeat of what it was before. Yes the under 18 folks that caused alot of problems for us 18+ There is a great place for all! Just please keep in mind, the world has drama no matter where you go, please leave the drama out of It really is a fun and great place to have fun and meet great people.

  160. #325 by nrg1664 on 2011.05.18 - 2:23 pm

    I would definatly pay to play and think the idea of layered payments where you can pay more monthly or quarterly ect to get more is a good one and maybe if people pay for say a whole year up front they get a month free. That encourages people to make an investment in their entertainment that also helps know it has a revenue stream for that year thatis more fixed.

    Thanks for looking to bring this back and more importantly thanks for saying you will be upfront with costs so we all see what is happening. Very brave and very good thinking

  161. #326 by imakos2011 on 2011.05.18 - 12:29 pm

    any word yet?

  162. #327 by Saint Vattica on 2011.05.17 - 5:26 pm

    Mr Wilson,

    I was wondering if you could share with us any ideas you have about changes that will be made to increase memberships and income for There. I have already read about new advertisements and the possibility of a monthly fee.

    Also will there be any benefits for dedicated customers?

    • #328 by Michael Wilson on 2011.05.17 - 5:48 pm

      Depends on what you mean by “dedicated customers”. I think that if we do re-open, and we see folks that pay consistently every month, I could imagine we’d want to give out some sort of benefits for that. Extra T$, or unique items, not sure at this point.

    • #329 by Bumpin42 on 2011.06.02 - 8:27 am

      That sound great MW maybe you could do this for people who pay for 6 months at a time or maybe even a year at a time. Extra Tbux , or unique items would be great but i would think the items would have to be very unique, also it would be nice if we could pay our monthy fee with Tbux but i dont see that happening. : )

  163. #330 by dotz on 2011.05.16 - 9:52 pm

    Listen is a great Program as is.. Leave it alone .. Improve on it. People will pay to use it. Don’t make such huge demands that Might chanse away a Person or family livinbg pay check to pay check..

    There shoould Be multiple payment Options on the table,

    1). Pay by the Month
    2). Pay every 3 months
    4). Pay Yearly
    I personally hate the Automatic Payment Option.. I want to decide when I pay for something Online . i like the prepaid option.
    i dont want to be stuck only being able to be a member for three months or more . and want to be able to hang with my thing’s while.
    i love my there land miss it much . i would pay 10.00 a month . as i want the months i want . (with excitement in hope’s it still much the same if i can still hang when not a monthly member . or may get bored and wonder away . you see new thing’s and want to pay and get back in to it here and there whale hanging. haha
    i really hope there re- open’s i need my there land back and knew some day it would come back . I’ve never found a sight i like as much . i wonder will i still have my thing’s and there buck’s. it was a lot of hour’s to get there . can’t do that again.
    i know if There reopen’s i’m There ….. πŸ™‚

  164. #331 by James Kindle on 2011.05.14 - 4:07 am

    Hello Michael

    I cant wait to see back up and running and willing to suppport it all the way. I know paypal was a payment method before but I just want to make sure you keep it as a payment method please.
    Thank you.

  165. #332 by IMAKOS on 2011.05.13 - 6:44 pm

    I am reading all the Posts and wonder where these people get some of their Information or Ideas on what should be done.

    Listen is a great Program as is.. Leave it alone .. Improve on it. People will pay to use it. Don’t make such huge demands that Might chanse away a Person or family livinbg pay check to pay check..

    There shoould Be multiple payment Options on the table,

    1). Pay by the Month
    2). Pay every 3 months
    4). Pay Yearly
    I personally hate the Automatic Payment Option.. I want to decide when I pay for something Online . I can’t give an online Program that much control over my Back Account/ Credit card Account .

    Logging People out after 15 mins isn’t wise.. people love to sit and in their Homes/gardens/vehicles in game.

    We the players have a Huge Chance to Help our Favorite game do well.. but like all games WORD of Mouth is Key on social Networks.. FB has a There2 already on it.. I have over 500 plus friends and family members on my friends list.. I plan to Post the Hell out of the survey on my WALL.. and post My Videos I made during my time in to show people that have never heard or played in what its truly about.
    This is our opportunity to make this a Postive Move for, The Users and Michael Wilson.,. We The Players Need to Help it along the way..
    Stay Postive and make it happen .. if you know of Businesses that want to advertise hasve them call Michael Wilson.. it doesn’t hurt to try gang..
    Presently I pay about $160.00 a Year for a V.I.P. Subscription on a Popular Chat site and a 3 month Subscrition on a Virtual World site.. BOTH are NON recurring charges.. and I am 100% Comfortable with that
    force me to do a recurring charges situation and I’m not interested.

  166. #333 by Keemisan on 2011.05.13 - 4:25 pm

    I really loved, quite honestly. I hope it comes back. So.., I’m just a non-pro person giving an opinion. ;D

    Maybe for revenue, they could say “Free Tbux for doing blahblahblah” and the blahblahblah could be offers/surveys from companies that will pay for it, ya know? Or maybe it could be other stuff that people want done online or something, though I really am not aware of any others that don’t really require much expertise.

    Maybe they could integrate games from other companies into theirs, for example IMVU has OMGPOP games on it, which IMVU users can play together. (I’m guessing IMVU prolly gets $ from this.)

    I think they should perhaps unban people, as several of my friends have been banned for rather silly reasons, and unbanning them may cause a higher user influx, which could lead to more moolah. Right? Though, I do see why there would be opposition to this.

    But shyeah, just ideas. πŸ™‚

  167. #334 by Lacus on 2011.05.13 - 10:16 am

    I really do not care what I would have to pay, if was to re-open. In all honesty no other VW out there can compair with There are so many limitation’s, it is not funny, not to mention, the none pg-13 content as well. I miss, it was one game I never fount my self bored in. So I hold my head high and support any choices being made on either opening or not. If it is unable to open then in a sense I understand, but at this point none of you can say that no one tried. I support you 100% Micheal Willson!!!

  168. #335 by Koala07 on 2011.05.12 - 8:54 pm

    HI, Michael

    I spent six years running two manufacturing company’s and know it is not cheep to run. you can spend a lot of time wondering how am I gong to pay the bills, like rent raw material utility shipping and wages and benefits. with one company I had to project out how much raw materials I would need in six monthly in order to keep the production going for six months, for that is how long it would take to get in the raw materials for production. it was always interesting for there bills would all come in before I got my good, and would be given terms like net 30 to pay the bill to them. yet I had to give terms like 2% 10 net 30 or some could end up net 60 or 90 to my customers (the retail store) before they would pay me. So I do under stand what you are going thru and some of the tough decision that need to be made.

    I do hope that the numbers in the survey give you the numbers you need to open up again my wife and I are looking forward to play in there again.

    As far as exposing the costs it takes to run a company the company I think that is going above and beyond what should be expected of you. So if all you do is give rounded numbers on cost vs income more than you have to do Thank You.

    P.S. for those that are wondering what I mean by terms like 2% 10 net 30. It simply means that they can pay the bill with in ten days and take 2% off the total or pay the full amount with in 30 days. That is pretty standard terms a manufacturing company would give to its customers aka the retail stores.

  169. #336 by Biggiedude420 on 2011.05.12 - 1:09 pm

    I loved being able to chat in game but ahving to log into vent to talk also does not affect me I lvoe the ideas that are comming out and think once there comes back out the people saying that they wont pay will come around aswell but as for the rest of us that are agreeing to pay 20-30$ a month thats less then i pay to do laundry a month lol and theres always a way to make paying more sound better like satirell said.
    Great comments guys hope to see ya’s soon ingame.

  170. #337 by satirell on 2011.05.11 - 11:23 pm

    I was thinking about pricing sets or tiers
    like 5 bucks gets you text chat one island and walking
    10 bucks gets you all islands text chat and transportations
    15 gets voice all islands transports and 1 porta zone
    20 gets all the above and 5 porta zones and muisc boxes if thoses will be around
    25 or 30 all the above and a house or something like that

    since we are around the 10 or 15 dollar fee anyway and i would want my old there house back and if i remember right they where like 10 bucks a month i really wouldnt mind paying 25 or 30 right out as my month fee. seeing as to go out to eat and movie cost about 30 to 40 bucks and thats just one night and if you think about it i could play there everyday so that seems a better use of my money for a whole months entertainment.

    • #338 by Okalnix on 2011.05.12 - 11:02 am

      nice idea but.
      About 10 dollar = 18,000 tbux in that time.
      Takes a long time to get that 18k.
      And most people log in and stay on 1 place most of the time.
      The other thing is all tbux almost gone he can stil log in and do nothing.
      Still a data flow cost money.

      And all the server info on count down on your tbux are server data.
      And mabley people install a second program like Ventrilo.
      The log in in there avie and use ventrilo.
      So avie of there to see and to chat and hear on ventrillo.

      Its good thing people wanted There back online and helping idea’s are a good thing.
      Mabley a idea give some els a other idea.

      • #339 by satarell on 2011.05.12 - 12:42 pm

        o yea I remember people where always scared that there would make something like gas for vehicles and such lol that is probably not a good thing to tell MW about but lol anything to get back in world lol my dog needs a walk and I need to fly my hover boat I’ll put some there gas in the tank 4T a gallon πŸ™‚ .

      • #340 by JosephPaul on 2011.06.16 - 5:55 am

        Let’s not forget the ultimate tbux drain: paintball refills. I gladly paid $20 – $40 per month to play paintball over and above the money spent on vehicles and outfits. If Michael does find a way to “Pay to play” for using vehicles, then those who enjoy doing such will gladly pay what they can afford to do so. Those who are more into outfits, furniture, etc. will spend their money there. Either way, we are all spending our money and supporting There to do the things we enjoy and what is wrong with that?


    • #341 by whitefeatherbeth on 2011.05.13 - 12:43 pm

      Satirell…. OMG πŸ™‚ long time no see… hopefully it wont be long and we can log into THERE2, and I can get my hood back so we can play some UNO again hehe, how the heck have you been my friend? Daytona and I were just talking about how great it would be if THERE opened back up… Im so sick of LAG over at that other site! πŸ˜‰ Hugs and lets get this show on the road!!!!

      • #342 by satarell on 2011.05.15 - 10:48 am

        I think you have me confused with some one else πŸ™‚ satarell or satirell ??

  171. #343 by A used to be sad but then happy but know quite confused... person (You know me!) on 2011.05.11 - 5:20 pm

    This IF stuff is quite confusing. Are these subtle hints to an opening or saying closed of It would be quite helpful to be a little less cryptic please??? I’m a little lost in what your decisions are, not that any of it is my buisness now… Tell Mr. Wilson, it’s all about your thoughts. Do YOU think that you can make our world thrive and live on 10$/month, 15$/month, 20$/month!? Which could be the cheapest regarding the economy results and what the “tens of millions of dollars” it cost to keep open. Must be expensive, but we all want it to reopen, but we cannot spend really over 10$/month, as stated by the other bloggers. DO YOU (YOU run the darn system, and your employees, who probrably have the answers to my question. YOU tell us what the deal is.) know, or think, that there can survive? What the heck is IF supposed to mean it driving me totally crazy! =)

    • #344 by Marianne Mohr on 2011.05.12 - 4:14 am

      Dude read the blogs…the WHOLE discussion this entire month and the point of the survey – is for Makena to access IF IF IF IF they can get a viable response to COVER THEIR COSTS. Since costs have changed due to technology options and reduction in staffing (due to no <18) they are asking the members to step up (financially).

      Frankly your comments that no one can pay more than $10 is not encouraging AT ALL. In fact many people can and said they WILL pay more. Look at the survey above and MW comments. They are explicit and clear.

  172. #345 by Okalnix on 2011.05.11 - 10:34 am

    ( 1 )
    If there reopened and a date is known,it is not wise to start to know what you’ve.
    For example a pre-order account monthly payment.
    So you know what you did at the reopening.
    No dripping tap but a reasonable cash flow.

    The Game in advance to download.
    So you have fewer problems with the speed of downloading.
    Eg 1 week in advance

    ( 3 )
    Automaticly monthly payment.
    Or preferably six months but then it automatically adjust every six months.

    ( 4 )Automaticly log out avatar.
    Say 15 min , by not moving or chating.
    Contain some people stayed online while they were away.
    Less data transfer.

    ( 5 ) More fun zones,for active severals types of racing.
    Many people want a fun active zone.
    Let them pay for it.

    ( 6 )
    Smaller world.
    So much land where nothing is.
    Egypt server fun but not needed.
    Too many houses,a lot are better to use.

    Just some little idea with an idea to help.
    If there reopend.

    • #346 by there_forever on 2011.05.11 - 7:34 pm

      No. 4 makes sense under certain conditions.
      The goal is to save money. Amazon charges by the hour.
      Copy-pasted this from their website : “Pricing is per instance-hour consumed for each instance, from the time an instance is launched until it is terminated. Each partial instance-hour consumed will be billed as a full hour.”
      That means that if an avie enters a sector and opens a server for 5 or 10 or 30min, and then leaves that sector, that will be charged for a whole hour.
      If one or two or even three avatars are inactive and keeping a whole server open for no reason, then after a certain amount of time they should be disconnected.
      Disconnecting 3 avatars might save you a small amount of money but in the long run the numbers could get much higher.

      • #347 by Tomixcomics on 2011.05.11 - 11:16 pm

        What? 15 minute limit? no way! I’m not gonna be disconnected out of an event because I ahd to go do something in the kitchen for a second only to come back and realize I don’t have a place in it anymore. Plus, being online and not active is what many people use for ksilling, and its nice to be avalible vi IM or summon, and ocme abck if you hear you got one of them.

      • #348 by Jerry on 2011.05.12 - 1:58 pm

        Nice that you have your ideas out here. But I don’t like being booted out of my virtual environments. Not at all. I like to live in my environment even if I am watching tv or something in real life and just sitting or standing around with my avatar doing nothing. So booting us out is a bad idea. What kind of data transfer does a standing avatar use? Probably nothing. Just some memory or something. Not sure how it works but I don’t want to be kicked out. Especially if I am in my own portazone. That is my area and I can doing nothing in it and stand around all day if I so please. That is what I hope anyway.

        Your other ideas might be good. But also about a smaller world. Michael said that the ocean was like one server. And it isn’t significant to make the ocean smaller. That is a huge ocean too. And lots of other open spaces I love. It is great just to drive for a far distance and appreciate the open spaces. It makes it seem more realistic. You can have more adventures. So I don’t think the size of There is a factor in their operating costs. Other things come into play. So keeping it big is what I want to see.

        But keep throwing out the ideas and whatever sticks, sticks. They know what they have to do. I think this survey has been going long enough now so maybe soon they can give us an answer. Some woman is trying to tell us to pay more like 15.00 or 20.00 a month. Well good idea for her. She should pay that but I am not going to pay it. She has a high income. I have so much I want to spend on entertainment now so 15.00 is too much. I think 4.95 a month for developers inside deal. And other full accounts 5.95 a month. Plus people will buy tbucks for portazones and things to add to the cash flow coming into There. Also a very low cost account at 1.95 or maybe 2.95 a month for a very basic low end avatar account. We need this to keep up the numbers. It isn’t free but close to it. It will stop more of the losers coming in as some unknown name ready to cause trouble.

        Maybe a unlimited paintball gun for 2.95 a month. They have to figure out at what price it would be advantageous to set this at. Otherwise they will lose money from all the players that fork out a lot more in tbucks to purchase them. So a 5.95 account then goes up to about 9.00. Just rattling. I better get going. Keep writing on this forum. I always like reading new ideas. Anything that is viable to them will be appreciate by them. They may laugh me out of the water and love all that you say for all I know. I just hope they are kicking ideas around now and this place can be running in June. Thanks, Jerry66 in There and other avatars!!

      • #349 by Winston on 2011.05.16 - 8:04 am

        Unfortunately AFK skilling does consume server resources, this is why most (not all) MMO’s have some kind of policy or mechanism that acts against it. WoW has a “five minute kick,” Runescape uses a 90 sec. kick and SL has a 30 minute kick. For each avie logged in and doing nothing while the user makes a sandwich or talks on the phone, there’s another user who may not be able to log in due to server/system maximums. If Amazon has to fire up an instance just so an avie can hoverboard inside a There house then I think it is a huge waste of money. We already paid for the time our PAZs where out so I see no change there but an AFK user needs a time limit. It is a social game after all and the last thing I think we want is for There to look like vSide with a bunch of avies standing around doing nothing. This always annoyed me about There in the past. It’s certainly not a deal breaker, but it would save money.

    • #350 by DM on 2011.05.12 - 3:46 am

      #6 is a great idea. The world could be made significantly smaller and still be just as enjoyable. There was waaaaaay too much wasted space. Scale down or even eliminate some of the less popular lands (like Egypt or Frosty Island). Make more real estate available to buy/rent that is desirable, such as “private islands”, in lieu of landlocked neighborhood lots in the middle of nowhere with no waterfront.

      • #351 by Tomixcomics on 2011.05.12 - 7:07 am

        egypt I agree is a bit of a waste. but frosty?! People love forsty, there’s always tons of pazs there.

        I am up for the “more real estate” idea. namely more funzones. there never seem to be enough if you ak me (im nto talking about frozes, mind you).

        AS for the ocean – MW already said it only takes up one server.

    • #352 by Austinbit on 2011.05.13 - 11:47 am

      I’m not sure more funzones is the way to go. My guess is that a significant amount of revenue could be generated by the high demand for funzones (1,000,000T$+ sometimes)! Plus, when you add more and more zones to a world with a limited number of people, they tend to be more and more empty. This completely ruins There’s social system, which encourages – and runs off of – interaction (after all, it is the enjoyable social relationships we develop that kept us in world).

      • #353 by Tomixcomics on 2011.05.13 - 4:38 pm

        I dont think we’re in danger of that happening, you see, I as ane vne thost, had a heck of a time trying to find zones that were avalible for hosting and fit my needs.

        So while people pay ludacris amounts for funzones, there are simply not enough o them to go aorund and you end up having to put your name on a list that updates once in a blue moon to be on the hosting list for some obscure zone wiht tons of rules.

        It’s not that the reason zones were empty was because there were too many of them, if anything its because there wrent enough. because most people who own a zone either keep it to themselves, or are full with events from here to easter sunday. I used to host at Gondor, and the place would be abandoned, but if you made an interesting event, people would come by the dozens.

  173. #354 by Jerry on 2011.05.11 - 9:51 am

    I sure hope a business model will look viable here. Something affordable for most people yet able to keep There profitable. I really want another virtual environment to call my own again. SL tried ripping off with their trying to charge me for three months of a certain tier level though it was less than thirty days in that tier. They still somehow tried to justify it but
    I kept on them and finally I was given a small refund. Maybe there policy somehow justified it. How I don’t know but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth for going premium over in SL again. Not to mention being stalked by some weirdo playing it as a sexy woman avatar. Having some stalking script or some sort. I would rather pay a few bucks to There. Plus if this gets going it will be 18 and up and to me that is better. I hope it is being worked on now. I think the survey gives a pretty good picture right now. Weed out the duplicate IP address where someone put Yes I will pay 20.00 a month about 200 times to throw you off. There deserves to be up and running. It is too good not to be.

  174. #355 by GinaGina on 2011.05.10 - 9:42 am

    Personally I think that the way you are handling the “possible” re-open of there2 is outstanding! I know most people would be perfectly fine with paying a fee to play the game they know and love so much. Currently I find myself living my “secondlife” and while I’ve had a wonderful time there, it’s not the same as it was in there. I was on listening to some of the client sounds etc… Really brings back some precious memories of friends and fun times. Pulling all nighters to get that neighborhood setup.. I would literally put all the money I now invest in a SIM in secondlife which is near 300 USD into There. So I think that there are many others who would be just as willing to invest their time and effort. I think that also there would be many people willing to work and help the company collecting any data etc.. on a volunteer basis. I might not make sense not sure, but I do know that this could be great… and your definatly handling it the right way!

  175. #356 by ReenRen on 2011.05.09 - 3:53 pm

    I am not one who thot was an investment fund, and even if it could have been by some fabulous stretchy imaginary reality, it would have been equivalent to buying art or avon bottles. ROFL! Personally, i found it impossible for many people to understand basic finance. it was like talking to the wind. My words all carried away, cas the wind does not hear.

    That being said, i would be glad for those fools to self-select out, which of course they mostly loudly proclain they will do, since “they won’t be fooled again” (by themselves apparently, since they remain clueless in general lol).

    That being said, I did not find the discussion or blog about investing. i assume there was supposed to be some kind of link. Just calling that out for the curious…

    Don’t really need to read that discussion myself, since i DO get it, and i WILL invest as much in vaporware as my budget will allow, should i get back in There – since the true value is playing in There, supporting artists, and Being There Now! +D Priceless!

    • #357 by Robert Ricci on 2011.05.19 - 3:49 pm

      I remember Uru….Riven….their makers…..they unleased the game and the game company/game server…that shut it down…

  176. #358 by Taelos on 2011.05.09 - 2:52 pm

    Michael Wilson writes: “I think we will all agree this is a better approach than if we were to re-open, then, by some small chance, to announce later β€œthings aren’t going as well as planned”, and have to close again.”

    Right on! Eyes open is the only way. I have lived through several re-openings and closures of another game (Uru) and the gut wrench on the community can be profound. This last go around was for the first time “eyes open” and that is the best way to go. Especially (case in point) it is running off of voluntary PayPal donations. Stop playing, service goes away. And we are still going after over 1 year with that model.

    For There-2 the model will be monthly subscriptions. By the same logic, not enough subscribers, then it goes away. (Albeit after possibly some lean months and fair warnings.) But Michael if it is transparent I believe you will see the best out of the community. Show them a funding gauge or remaining days working capital or some such. That kind of stuff works.

    Can’t wait to restart the Neighborhood and Community Development Group. ^_^

    See you THERE.


  177. #359 by Jerry on 2011.05.09 - 2:36 pm

    I was outside working in the yard. Pruning my flowering cherry tree a few minutes thinking about some. The numbers that are being taliked about for a monthly fee to get in. The options are what? 20.00, 15.00, and 10.00 a month. Obviously we are all going to choose 10.00 a month with the 15 and 20 more than we can afford to pay. Well it would leave no room for purchasing t-bucks at that rate anyway. I believe that a buck or two under the price of Netflix is something we can handle. Myself I like 4.95 a month. It is an amount of money that people will say oh okay that isn’t much. I like flying the hoverboards around enough and talking with a few people for 5 dollars to be worth it. Tops 5.95 to 6.95 I would say. Or how about if you are involved with selling and creating products maybe we get the inside deal of 4.95 because we are the people that make it all happen. 6.95 for others. But how about an almost free account so we keep some newbies running around so we can have people to talk to? We need Duda Beach with some avatars here and there to say hi to. A basic account for a mere 1.95 a month? An account that restricts you from buying things in the auction. Maybe having a couple tshirts to wear. This account will have an upgrade link I wonder if a timer could be set for these accounts to only drive so much time a day. I don’t know. I have to do some more brainstorming It is just the 1.95 basic accounts can’t be having as much fun as the rest of us. We want them to envy the people that pay for a full account obviously.

    Right now for example my girlfriend in the Philippines isn’t doing that good financially. So I know 100% she won’t be coming in for 10 dollars a month. And I can’t afford to pay her 10 bucks and mine at 20 bucks. And if she doesn’t come in I don’t know if I will sign up. I might because I have a lot of things on my account. So at least if there is a basic account that at least helps out with some costs with There it could get people in that don’t have much of an income. It will give us more card players when people need them. People that can’t afford it might have friends that will say hey I will buy you a basic account. Plus some of us will get a second and third account up and running at the basic price just to bring them back to life again.

    At least we are all talking about it. It is very interesting to have this new link disclosing some inside There operating costs. This could be a first because I haven’t seen this type of thing before. It is a good idea I believe. I think I will go read some peoples posts now. I rattled enough. thanks, Jerry66 will live in There again with any luck.

  178. #360 by Alexandria3178 on 2011.05.09 - 5:57 am

    I am far from being a business expert. I own a small business that somedays seems like it will not open the next day. Economic times are tough. I hear you talking about hiring employees, and I understand that this is needed to keep the system running, correcting account bugs etc. But, does everyone have to be a paid employee? For example, you had in game volunteers, the Island Guides, of which I was a senior guide,and then you had the paid greeters.

    I would have loved to be a greeter, and I would have done it for free. Have you considered having a volunteer workforce of greeters and helpers? You did not have greeters on 24/7, and I do not know about helpers But if the concern were about coverage, perhaps it could be covered with a larger number of serious volunteers.

    Also, even with volunteers, it is not uncommon for organizations to schedule the vomunteers for times that are needed and appropriate.

    I would thing that providing an on-line schedule sign up sheet, you can get every slot covered, and in the long run, it would save the cost of having them as employee’s.

    But as I said, I am no expert, but it makes sense to me


    • #361 by Michael Wilson on 2011.05.09 - 5:59 am

      Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. When I say “hire employees”, I mean people like “Engineers”, “QA”, “System Administration/Operations”.

      • #362 by Winston on 2011.05.10 - 7:01 am

        Where do I send my resume for QA?

      • #363 by Donny Struiwig on 2011.05.19 - 9:10 am

        if it were me I would co-owner and then I want to invest in the game.
        just like a real businessman. i am 19 years old, and i would like to test you, and makes plans for this. but thats up to the owner. i am really good at finance part, and i am not a man thats stops a job with a great success.

        Michael you can always email me for this I am ready to do business, and the best of it.

        even hire me for a job. but I also want to help a good start with there2

        Donny Struiwig

      • #364 by Donny Struiwig on 2011.05.19 - 9:13 am

        THIS IS A GOOD ONE lol

        if it were me I would want to be co-owner. and then I invest in the game.
        just like a real businessman. i am 19 years old, and i would like to meet you, and makes plans for this. but thats up to the owner. i am really good at finance part, and i am not a man thats stops a job with non success.

        Michael you can always email me for this I am ready to do business, and the best of it.

        even hire me for a job. but I also want to help a good start with there2

        Donny Struiwig

        the other reaction is not good lol

      • #365 by NathanAvis on 2011.06.03 - 5:02 am

        Hey Donny, that sounds awesome! You got a few million dollars to invest with Michael Wilson?

    • #366 by David Wayne on 2011.07.12 - 7:33 pm

      I’ve tried many of those ‘other worlds’, and none of them compare to There. The avies in There are more realistic than any of them. They just don’t have any emotions and they walk like robots, unlike the avies in There that respond to each other and have many emotions. I wouldn’t hesitate to leave them and come back to There.

  179. #367 by Dimitris on 2011.05.09 - 5:29 am

    As Michael Wilson says it’s time to move on, but this mush be soon coz most of thearians are now in other worlds and they already gave some money for them.
    It’s not easy for them to come back in there when they create already new friends.
    Things have to move fast.

  180. #368 by Marianne (JoyofLife) on 2011.05.09 - 4:17 am

    Thanks for the frank discussion regarding operating costs, as said, a bold and unprecedented move. As loyalists all have stated, we are happy to pay, happy to see Makena turn a profit and happy that limiting to >18 may keep many “conspiracy theorists and haters” from THERE2. Although I found adults in THERE that liked to complain (in general) and had this weird negative vibe about everything. I hope this does not turn you off or bog you down. I know I’d throw my hands up at the plain stupidity of some comments. (eeps I hope mine don’t fall in that catagory! hehe)

  181. #369 by SugarL on 2011.05.09 - 3:42 am

    I must say I was having too much fun to even THINK about how much you had to pay or what type of people that had been whispering in your ear about what they want , what they would like to see, and what they would like to do on I was in support of re-opening but Mr. MW do u think it’s worth the risk or the hassle of being put in a stressful environment for my own selfishness, for my part I apologize, and if you never open it back up.. I had gr8 memories and for that tyvm.

  182. #370 by DM on 2011.05.09 - 1:39 am

    I was wondering how much revenue from in-game sales (i.e. real estate, clothing, vehicles, etc.) you were counting on to make this business model work. My wife and I had thousands of dollars worth of “virtual inventory” invested in There when it closed. I would think that most people (including myself) would be very reluctant to make any purchases in There 2 with the threat looming that it could close down again.

    • #371 by Michael Wilson on 2011.05.09 - 5:40 am

      Please see all the comments about “investing” here. Thanks.

      • #372 by DM on 2011.05.11 - 3:35 am

        Sorry Mr. Wilson…perhaps I’m missing something here, but I couldn’t find any comments about “investing” anywhere on this blog site that addresses my simple question. Maybe “invested” isn’t quite the correct term to use here, “expended” would be a better word.

        I was just wondering to what extent the proposed business model is relying on revenue generated from auctions, designer submission fees, rentals, etc. I think it’s going to take some time before people like us (who spent literally thousands in There over the past several years) regain enough confidence to start buying and spending Tbux in game again.

        All that being said, we are very anxious about the possible launch of There2 and intend to support it as much as possible. We would much rather use the approx. $400 month we currently spend in Second Life (formerly spent in There) to help support There2.

      • #373 by Austinbit on 2011.05.11 - 6:17 pm

        (I believe) Mikes point is this: You are not investing when you buy a membership to There. You are buying entertainment. In this case, it is a monthly fee rather than a lifetime one. Just like you would go to the movies, you will pay to use There.

      • #374 by DM on 2011.05.12 - 3:24 am

        I fully understand and agree with the concept that it is a “monthly entertainment fee” and not an “investment”, which I thought I made quite clear in my follow-up post. Putting all semantics aside, my question was never addressed.

      • #375 by David H on 2011.05.31 - 4:52 pm

        And we know what happens in There, the movies is hit and miss (mostly miss than hit) and cost (at least here in AU) $17 per miss. $17 to sit through two hours of some garbage. I know where I would rather be for $10 per month.

      • #376 by Elise Marcelle on 2011.06.11 - 12:39 pm

        I have no problem with the monthly fee, because of course YOU are investing in There, But because of financial issues previous members who could not afford There could have had a free account. But with all judgement aside, may I reccomend that members can work off their monthly fee? This is just a hopeful suggestion. Thank you.

    • #377 by XNecroscopeX on 2011.05.23 - 9:07 am


      I don’t know if you remember, but when There closed, they reimbursed people who purchased There bucks within a certain time period.

      I am sure that if There 2 closes, the same thing will happen.

  183. #378 by RRTT on 2011.05.08 - 7:35 pm

    Really interested in this information. IF there was to re-open, I think this would produce one of two results: The first would be that customers would see there was succeeding, and would keep paying for membership, T$, etc, and all would be great. The second thing i could see this producing is if There was not doing as well as the survey results predicted, members would stop paying for those things, and there’s business traffic would get progressively worse. Mike, I think you’re taking a bit of a risk here, I really hope it works.

    • #379 by Michael Wilson on 2011.05.08 - 7:58 pm

      I agree it’s a risk.

      But at the end of the day, this is about all the people who said they’d do what it takes to re-open There, or keep There alive. If their reaction to things not going as well as planned is to bail, then so be it. I don’t believe that will happen, but that’s certainly a possibility.

      I think we will all agree this is a better approach than if we were to re-open, then, by some small chance, to announce later “things aren’t going as well as planned”, and have to close again. Everyone needs to go into this with open eyes. Kind of like you know, real life :-).

      • #380 by there_forever on 2011.05.08 - 8:34 pm

        A very bold decision from your side MW. Very welcomed though. Very few people would dare to do something like this.

        With this info nobody will have the right to question your decisions and/or criticize you for opening ‘There’ or not again
        It might even a nice idea to tell us how much was needed to run ‘There’ before it shut down and about how much income you had from it so we all and especially the haters and conspiracy theorists can understand why ‘There’ needed to shut down in the first place – if that is possible of course since you would have to give us numbers that till now have remained a secret.

      • #381 by Michael Wilson on 2011.05.08 - 8:37 pm

        That’s not possible, the past is the past.

        The conspiracy theorists, haters, and hate-based business planners can believe what they will: it’s their right and privilege. It’s time to move on. πŸ™‚

      • #382 by RRTT on 2011.05.08 - 9:37 pm

        I agree 100%, that it would be a better approach to the unfortunate situation that things weren’t going as well as planned than announcing it after the fact. I think that people having the knowledge of what it takes financially to re-open or keep There alive will be helpful by maintaining the level of interest that the members have expressed at the possibility of it coming back, and what bringing it back consists of. I still wonder, as I’m sure you do, if it re-opens, then begins to fail again, what the response from the membership would be. I wonder if there would be an effort by the members to increase business, or if they would bail. These are very early presumptions on my part, I’m sure it will become more clear as numbers are actually released.

      • #383 by StacyAnne on 2011.05.25 - 6:54 pm

        I think this is an excellent idea. I’ve seen a lot of proof over the years that people don’t have a clue what it costs to run something like this. Some are under the impression that all it takes is heading to the nearest big box store and picking up the cheapest computer they have, plug it into the internet and away it goes.

        They have no clue as to the cost of a quality server or the software to run it. Or that one server probably isn’t enough to support a game such as There. That a simple home user internet connect, even broadband, isn’t going to cut it with the number of people playing. That the connection(s) needed aren’t free or even remotely cheap. That employees need to be paid (Even if it were literally $1/year) Then there’s power and heating costs, etc.

        Nor do a lot of people realize the amount of work to create and maintain program code. It’s a lot more than a few key strokes and mouse clicks. I’m guessing that the code for There is easily into the MILLIONS of lines of code.

        Hopefully this will blow the lid of of those ideas and give people some hint of the costs involved. Seems to some people, profit is a dirty word and that everything on the internet should be free. But it’s NOT free, it costs big bucks to operate something like this, and it shouldn’t be the companies responsibility to pay for it.

        So my hat’s off to you for whatever information you are able to share. Its way above and beyond the call of duty. Few companies do it, other than say reports to stock holders, etc. But certainly not to the customers. I’ve yet to see any of the “big 3” automakers disclose their costs. LOL

      • #384 by jingle2385 on 2011.07.04 - 7:04 pm

        It is now July 5th. Sill can’t download thereim.
        What’s up with that? When you gonna open?

    • #385 by jim ingle on 2011.05.12 - 6:24 pm

      Oooo, I just wanted to say, ….hurry up and open!
      If life didn’t have risk’s it wouldn’t be worth living now would it.
      LOL j/k luv ya’ll.

    • #386 by JD2 on 2011.06.28 - 9:13 am

      This is not a risk, nor is it bold, this is EXACTLY what should have been done the 1st go round. Had this been done there would not have been any doubt what so ever as to why closed. Each and every paying member is essentially a “stock holder” in the sense that they are the ones keeping the business alive,and would have seen it was a sinking ship,and where the holes were exactly,and what needed to be fixed,right off the bat I can already see an issue.

    • #387 by Hailey on 2011.07.08 - 6:21 pm

      Okay, so were paying $10 a month? .. do we get tbux with it? Or do we still have to pay, to get our tbux?

      • #388 by Michael Wilson on 2011.07.08 - 8:22 pm

        I’m gonna guess you’re under 18. We will be researching.

      • #389 by LB23 on 2011.07.09 - 10:44 pm

        I would have replied to MW post but there isnt an option. Im wondering how you would guess someone was under 18 from a simple question like that? The question to me sounds like there just checking on options like second life has.

    • #390 by Michael Wilson on 2011.09.12 - 3:31 pm


  1. NuVera ONnline like it or hate it - Page 4 - SLUniverse Forums
  2. There Operating Costs Β« I am so There | There DE

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