“Why are you making me use PayPal?”

Lots of people are having issues with There using PayPal, and the fact that we “require” a verified PayPal account. Here’s some background on that:

  • In the Old There, we used to store Credit Cards on secure servers and connected directly to a non-PayPal payment processor. To do this, we had to be “PCI Compliant”, which meant we had to meet all kinds of regulations to be “trusted” to keep people’s credit cards on file. Maintaining PCI compliance was expensive, and, there’s also the risk, no matter how secure you are, that the card data could be compromised (that never happened to us, BTW).
  • In the New There, we decided NOT to hold people’s cards on file because we don’t have the money, or resources to maintain PCI compliance. In today’s world, there are lots of 3rd party payment processors who will do this for us, so we (like many other businesses) decided to let them do it while we focus on running a virtual world.
  • We chose PayPal because (1) We’re already established with them, (2) We already had the code in place to work with PayPal, and (3) PayPal offered the ability to manage subscriptions payments for us. Thousands of other businesses also use PayPal, and many use it for subscriptions, so we didn’t think we’d made a horrible choice there.
  • We use “Verified Accounts” because, to be honest, we had a problem with “ChargeBacks”. Chargebacks occur when someone reverses a charge on a card, a card used proves to be stolen or fraudulent, or the credit card company just won’t honor the card. We got chargebacks for any number of reasons: People under 18 running amok on their parent’s cards, people using stolen or fraudulent cards, T$ reseller scams, etc, etc. Each time we got a chargeback, PayPal gave us a “bad mark”, and charged us. Enough bad marks, and PayPal shuts you down as a merchant. To avoid this, we worked with PayPal, who suggested that turning on verified accounts (among other things) would reduce the chargeback rate (which it did). So we didn’t just decide to require verified accounts – we did it because it was a business necessity.
  • We’ll never allow people to pay for subscriptions with a GameCard, or any other device someone under 18, or a griefer, could run down to the 7-11 and purchase. We may allow them for T$ purchases at some time.
  • In the future, we will try and add other payment services, like, say “Stripe”, but that will take some time, and there’s no guarantee they won’t have the same requirements PayPal does. Processors like PayPal require these things to reduce chargeback rates and reduce fraud. So you may find you’re no happier with other services than the ones we have today.

I hope this explains how we got to where we are today. I am happy to report than >200 people have already subscribed successfully, with no problem, so we know it’s working for some people (perhaps even lots of people).

  1. #1 by MademoiselleFifi on 2011.12.31 - 12:33 pm

    P.S. Who knows i might get to see a few 8 seaters at Phoenix….lol

  2. #2 by MademoiselleFifi on 2011.12.31 - 12:32 pm

    Okalnix, only now, am i able to see your wonderful xmas video….really beautiful.

    HAPPY 365th day of the year 2011 everyone…all the best and may 2012 be a great There year.

  3. #3 by Soosi on 2011.12.31 - 11:25 am

    HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone!

  4. #4 by Okalnix on 2011.12.31 - 11:20 am

    Happy New Year 2012

    From Netherlands to you all.
    Recording dune valley on event
    Have fun to watch it.

  5. #5 by DDGQ on 2011.12.31 - 8:06 am

    Hi, when can we begin to subscribe with a newly created account?
    Just wondering, thanks.

  6. #6 by DavyRocket on 2011.12.30 - 3:38 am

    I’m sure I won’t get an official answer, but I will ask anyways. So is there an ETA when the developer program will be open for us to list our items again?

    • #7 by Andy on 2011.12.30 - 8:41 pm

      I believe that it is in the group of nxt things to work on Davy so hopefully sometime in the very near future ๐Ÿ™‚

  7. #8 by Snougee on 2011.12.29 - 5:52 pm

    Finally got my credit card to work. My government issued postal code apparently wasn’t good enough for paypal and I was instructed to use a dif one. How they can mess something like that up I really don’t know. But I finally did manage to sign up after a annoying few hours of trouble shooting on a day off. Guess all the other services I use just like taking my money more then them ๐Ÿ˜‰

  8. #9 by julia on 2011.12.29 - 5:37 pm

    how do i cancel my subscription? lol

    • #10 by DDGQ on 2011.12.31 - 8:06 am

      Why would you want to? ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #11 by Dan Samuel on 2011.12.31 - 3:01 pm

      Ignoring the ‘lol’ and assuming that’s a serious question, the way you cancel your avatar’s There.com monthly subscription is:

      * visit PayPal directly and login with your paypal credentials
      * You’re looking for a section called “My Pre-Approved Recurring Payments” which PayPal tends to move around a bit, but generally can be found under “My Profile” or “My Money”
      * The details for the transaction in question will have the name “Monthly subscription for There.com avatar ”
      * Be sure you find the right one, if you have more than one ๐Ÿ™‚
      * Press the ‘cancel’ button
      * Note PayPal’s warning about it being irreversible, immediate, no refund, etc. and OK that
      * Bingo! No more PayPal bills and no more logging on of that avatar.

      Again, subscriptions start when you start them, and stop *immediately* when you cancel them. Your avatar will not be able to log in without a subscription. PayPal will NOT defer the cancellation to the end of the current period. If that’s your goal, then you need to do that manually by not cancelling until near the end of your period. (PayPal suggests not trying to cut that closer than 24 hours)

      • #12 by Sassybeme There on 2012.02.09 - 6:19 am

        Thank you for this. Had to dig a bit for it. Just glad it was here. ๐Ÿ™‚

        I thought we had to do it from our THERE profile or some thing. Wondering why I wasn’t finding the cancel button. ๐Ÿ™‚

  9. #13 by xSnoopy on 2011.12.28 - 7:03 am

    Any plans to return Paiz to the way it was before There closed?

    • #14 by Dan Samuel on 2011.12.31 - 3:07 pm

      Several locations (the newbie islands, and the Candy Cane Lane areas on Frosty) were implemented via the neighborhood technology. The GOOD news is that means we can eventually reload them. The BAD news is that their actual CONTENTs were not preserved anywhere (i.e. landscaping, decorations, etc) and will basically need to be manually re-created.

      Part of resurrecting the Hoods system is a script which restores a hood as completely as possible from the legacy data (which is not too much of a challenge, since it is just the hood itself). But once we have that system up, we can try to extend it for these ‘company-owned hoods’ to restore at least some of their contents as well as the hoods themselves. But after that we will need ‘boots on the ground’ to actively manage all the stuff which was going on (on the newbie islands)

  10. #15 by Cwby4ever on 2011.12.26 - 2:10 pm

    I dont know if this has been a problem with anyone else but we (my wife) and I were having problems staying in there everysince we were allowed back in. I sent Dan photos of what would happen and when. Our screen would go black then the world would come back but not our avie. Dan told me that some routers have a built in disconnect as a saftey of being on a site that may have viruses. We have the same computers we had when there closed and they worked fine with our old D Link router. Our son had a brand new Belkin router he didnt want so I thought why not upgrade and hooked the new Belkin router up. After Dan told me about some routers that had built in features to disconnect you I said what does he know he just builds 3D worlds so I ignored it. Well I got so fed up with the black screens I put our old beat up D Link router back on two weeks ago and have never had a black screen since. I still get SEG VIO from time to time but never get the black screen and the world coming back without my avie. I hope this helps anyone using a Belkin router.

    • #16 by Cwby4ever on 2011.12.26 - 2:14 pm

      Oh just wanted to say I am using an old Dell Laptop with 512 mb of ram works fine.

    • #17 by Aaron Moe on 2011.12.27 - 1:08 pm

      PayPal isn’t accepting my credit card, it says it’s not supported (I’m from Egypt) so PayPal isn’t accepting egyptian credit cards lol.

      What to do so I pay for the game?

  11. #18 by Cardo on 2011.12.25 - 7:23 pm

    Mr wilson, im from portugal, my credit card isnt compatible with paypal, what can i do? , i dont have any other ways to use paypal really..

    • #19 by MademoiselleFifi on 2011.12.26 - 10:57 am

      Cardo, paypal works with bank accounts (debit accounts) too….not only with credit cards.

      • #20 by Aaron Moe on 2011.12.29 - 4:51 am

        Yo, my friend tried to pay with her bank account which is already attached to her PayPal account, and she can’t pay unless adding a credit card or debit card to her PayPal.

      • #21 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.12.30 - 8:33 am

        Aaron they can attach the debit card that goes with that same bank account from what I’ve heard, as for you in Egypt, Egypt is one of the 2 largest online spenders that are still not accepted by paypal so you may have to wait a few months for them to introduce another method.

  12. #22 by MademoiselleFifi on 2011.12.25 - 7:13 am

    Merry XMas everyone…..with lots of happiness.

  13. #23 by martin71a on 2011.12.24 - 2:50 pm

    just a thought now there.com is back is there any chance of any new shape for buggy`s and tuv`s ect ??

    • #24 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.26 - 6:22 pm

      Probably not any time soon. We’ve still got the muscle cars, coupes, etc.; those were the “new” shapes before closing (for a year or two, that is). Even before those, though, developers were limited to simply painting on buggies, TUVs, and Monster Trucks; all the model changes (like the Groovy Buggy and 4-seater) came from There. I suspect the reason for this is to ensure that racing is kept on a level field; if something isn’t going to handle, accelerate, and corner exactly like a Purple Kong Buggy, it’ll look different, and anything that looks different (in terms of body layout) can be assumed to handle etc. differently (and hence can reasonably be banned from lap time records and rated races).

      Since There’s very limited staff is, at present, pretty completely tied up with getting There open (next things are to get the point of allowing new accounts, and restarting the developer program, both aimed at bringing in more dollars, naturally), and anything like developing new content will surely have to wait until There is making a comfortable profit every month.

  14. #25 by Okalnix on 2011.12.24 - 10:45 am

    Merry Christmas to you all.
    Smal video recording on there.com.
    Have fun to watch it.

    • #26 by Fallax on 2011.12.24 - 1:23 pm

      Wow great video..and a merry christmas to you….and also a very merry Christmas Michael, team and everyone. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #27 by William Grass on 2011.12.25 - 9:29 am

      Thank-you. That was a very nice video. Merry Christmas to everyone and their families. Stay safe.

    • #28 by Aaron Moe on 2011.12.27 - 2:39 am

      Nice video!

      Dayum, I didn’t attend the ‘Therian Christmas’. ๐Ÿ˜€

  15. #29 by Domano on 2011.12.23 - 1:21 pm

    Have you reflected on the perceived value (if any) of charging $9.99 per month rather than $10.00. Wondering if your staff had that discussion. Is there a psychological benefit with the possibility of increased sales by using pricing that appears to be lower in this manner?

    • #30 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.12.25 - 10:30 am

      Yes cause sane adults typically spend thousands more cause they are paying a penny less lol.

  16. #31 by Grumps08 ( shaun ) on 2011.12.23 - 6:01 am

    I would like to thank all of the ppl behind the huge operation of getting there back up and running, it has made a lot of ppl very happy, while there are perhaps problems in world and some having other billing isuess, we need to remember the hard work everyone had and are putting into this. for myself i will attempt to create a new paypal after christmas or new year, just due to my comitments of helping vunurable ppl i am busy this christmas with this :), i hope the new policys of 18plus site etc will not mean a lack of comen sense, while i noted mr m wilsons coments suggesting it was ok to abuse ppl here in there ie you can tell me to fuck off and or call me a shithead? i believe this was what i read,i think this for some has sent the wrong message, my little remider for everyone there are laws in place for internet bullying so pls do use your common sense,. have a great christmas everone and as we say in there ‘tu lol take care :)xx

    • #32 by Andy on 2011.12.23 - 6:59 am

      My ignore button is gonna be the most used on my keyboard I think …..Its sad the way language has hit the sewers since there became 18+

    • #33 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.12.23 - 7:14 am

      Internet cyber bullying laws typically are for minors protection, not for protection of every idiot online lol. Why would you think 18+ would have a lack of common sense more than a site with minors? Not sure about the logic in that one. MW was not saying it’s OK to be hostile towards people, he was only saying that as part of a message to point out things you will get banned for. He never said he won’t moderate you for calling him a shithead he just is less likely to ban you for that then he will be if you call him the N word or say you wanna rape him or his family etc. I’m sure they will be more lenient in situations where we curse in general, cause well humans fucking curse lol. It’s a part of American culture sadly to say the least. But that doesn’t mean we can curse towards people in a hostile or provocative manner.

      • #34 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.12.23 - 7:15 am

        than he will be’

      • #35 by Michael Wilson on 2011.12.23 - 12:19 pm

        Oh maybe I wasn’t clear. There’s no “maybe” for racial slurs, hate speech, etc. You get banned for it, period, the end. That kind of stuff isn’t a “slip”, or “I forgot”, or “I didn’t mean it”.

        And, no, you won’t get banned for calling me (or anyone else) a shithead. That’s something adults can work out among themselves.

      • #36 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.12.25 - 10:26 am

        No I wasn’t saying we may be banned for those things, I was just trying to help him understand why you said what you said about it. You were definitely clear in what things will get us banned as far as behavior.

  17. #37 by i_planet on 2011.12.22 - 5:56 pm

    Hello Mr Wilson,
    I would like to suggest you this website (www.2checkout.com) as a way for people to pay with traditional credit cards and it do not require you to install any internal platform. It could be useful for people do not like to use PayPal or for those whose bank cards are not working with PayPal.

  18. #40 by Kathleen on 2011.12.22 - 5:08 pm

    I am really confused about the whole subscription thing. I have not been able to log into the world… keep getting the message that ‘There” is unable to connect to the world to check my username/password. I thought maybe it’s because I have not subscribed yet. I can’t seem to find any info on exactly HOW to subscribe, can’t find any buttons anywhere that say ‘subscribe’ etc. When I log on to There.com it says I am already a member under monthly membership, and I don’t see any way to add payment info in my ‘account info’ page. Can someone please help? lol Anyone have any ideas on what I am missing here? Thanks

    • #41 by Analogrival on 2011.12.23 - 5:21 am

      I think right now only people with gold funpass and higher are let in (could be plat.) without paying?

      And I think subscriptions were only open for a short while for testing before being closed?

      MW, could you confirm I know what the hell I’m talking about?

      • #42 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.12.23 - 7:19 am

        Subscriptions are for all fun pass levels now and nobody even gold gets in free now, though thereIM aint locked for non-payers as of yet. That message Kathleen is getting was once explained by Dan I’m just not entirely sure what the reason that causes it was. But when I used to get that message, just clicking repeatedly eventually made it go away. Tag Dan Samuel in one of the fb groups if you’re in it and ask the question again, maybe he’ll see it and give the answer again.

    • #43 by Dan Samuel on 2011.12.23 - 9:08 am

      Kathleen, that isn’t s subscription-related issue, that’s a connectivity issue. Something is blocking your client from connecting to the login server.

      Usually this is some helpful security software (firewall, virus checker, zonealarm,..) thinking that only official browser programs should ever initiate connections to the internet.

      If this only started happening since the last client update, it might be your firewall revoking previously-granted permission because it feels the program ‘was altered’ (since that’s what a patch does, but it is also the sort of thing an evil virus could do)

  19. #44 by Joe_R203 on 2011.12.22 - 3:09 pm

    Thank you for the help with that double payment issue with PayPal/CitiBank. You work fast. ๐Ÿ™‚ Happy Holidays!


    P.S. I hope Santa brings my lost paint jobs and custom wheels. lol

  20. #45 by JonmiChel There on 2011.12.22 - 11:55 am


    I’ve got a question about subscription cancel. The thing is… I’ve read the paragraph when you’re going to sign up and can’t understand 100% what does this mean: Subscription payments are non-refundable, but you may cancel at any time (though you will lose any unused time on your subscription, even if you re-subscribe).

    Does it mean that if you buy 1 month and after that month you wanna cancel the monthly payment, you will lose the rest time of that month from the moment you cancel it? For example… I get 1 month (30 days) and day 28 I cancel the next month payment, do i lose those 2 last days if I cancel the next month subscription on that moment I cancel?

    I hope you can understand it! I just.. sometimes can’t pay all months so.. it’s a good thing to know cuz.. if Im going to lose days I’ve paid… >.>

    • #46 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.22 - 1:38 pm

      It means exactly what you describe — if you cancel on day 28 after subscribing, you lose the two or three days remaining (in other words, when you cancel, your login is blocked immediately) — and even if you cancel immediately after suscribing, there’s no refund for remaining unused time. You can’t cancel “the next month’s” subscription at this point — in other words, there isn’t any way to “non-renew”, or just block the subscription from charging your PayPal in the future, without cancelling immediately. That’s apparently being held as a possibility in the future, but as I understand it would require changing subscription page code that Samsyn calls “brilliant” (and therefore hard to maintain).

      The solution is (when you won’t be able to pay) to cancel as late in the cycle as possible, to minimize your “loss” (or to be able to play as long as you can), but without going that one day too long that will cause problems for you. Your PayPal transaction records can help you see what date you paid on, and I think the recurring payments section will show the next payment date — this may be helpful in determining exactly when to cancel if/when you need to.

    • #47 by Juli on 2011.12.22 - 3:39 pm

      You pay for a SUBSCRIPTION which means AUTOMATIC monthly charge of $10.00 per month each month until CANCELLED.

      You can cancel through paypal as follows:
      Log into your Paypal account/Go to Profile/Go to MY Money/Update “My Preapproved Payments”/Click on Makena and CANCEL.

      When you cancel it is IMMEDIATE and you LOSE any days left for that month and you get no refunds for those lost days.

    • #48 by Aaron Moe on 2011.12.27 - 2:42 am

      I think I understood that part about subscription cancel timing, but how to even cancel the subscription?

      No, seriously. ๐Ÿ˜€

  21. #49 by Sniperbait wants a snow filled Christmas on 2011.12.22 - 11:19 am

    Looking for a 100 acre hood when hoods come back….. I currently own a 45 acre hood, but we are looking to either get a second 45, or upgrade to a 100. I have seen ones in auctions for sale, but then have heard it will not show in your inventory till hoods are renentered. My one 45 is in my inventory now, so was hoping for some help on this as I would not buy something if it isn’t even going to show as mine.

    Quote: Life is like a box of candy, some pieces taste great, the others make you sick. But in the end you enjoy the good, and learn from the bad.

  22. #50 by seany35 on 2011.12.22 - 8:22 am

    I wish something would be done with zephyr its such a dam mess someone has now put all wall across the road cant even drive in.
    also i reported someone who came up to me and said they like to watch there grandson w**k and 2 weeks later i was shocked to see her still in world.
    i know your busy but saying stuff like that is disgusting.

    • #51 by Andy on 2011.12.22 - 2:05 pm

      Unfortunantly now its an 18+ world that is the kind of language you will see alot more of but i do agree with you 100% seany

  23. #52 by Bella on 2011.12.21 - 9:13 pm

    When will new members get to sign up.

    • #53 by CardSharkRay on 2011.12.22 - 7:24 am

      i want to sign up tooo when will new members be allowed in open open open …

    • #54 by NathanAvis on 2011.12.22 - 12:44 pm

      I also have 2 friends that wish to join and they do like to waste money. Though depending how soon or late the world is open to everybody they might move on.

      • #55 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.22 - 2:10 pm

        Michael has said that new memberships will be accepted some time (fairly soon, as I recall) after opening is completed.

    • #56 by Aaron Moe on 2011.12.29 - 4:55 am

      Once the dust settles from getting all the former members in. ๐Ÿ˜€

  24. #57 by CardSharkRay on 2011.12.21 - 4:17 pm

    ok here is a qustion i got a jukebox and i hit change staion and it wont go play on raido what am i doing thanks if anyone can awnser this it be great help thanks for your time

    • #58 by AgapeLove on 2011.12.22 - 9:34 am

      This was from one of Mr. Wilson’s prior posts here ,see if that helps “HOW DO I GET MY MUSIC BOX TO WORK?
      When you use the โ€˜Change Stationโ€™ option to pick your shoutcast radio station, you will need to (one time) use the Shoutcast HELP/SETTINGS option to select how you want to hear the music. You want to select โ€œUse my default media playerโ€ for the music to come out of the music box in world. Otherwise, it will come straight out of your browser and no one else will hear it.”

      • #59 by CardSharkRay on 2011.12.22 - 11:39 am

        TY AgapeLove got it working now ty for the help happy holidays

  25. #60 by AgapeLove on 2011.12.21 - 7:36 am

    An alternative to โ€œRandom paz Pickupsโ€
    First I just wanted to ask if you do pick up pazโ€™s ,please donโ€™t do it until after Christmas as I think the places are all so beautiful right now (my Christmas runs through Jan 6th).If the โ€œsavesโ€ were working properly this might not be a problem, but my old ones do not work at all and the new ones seem questionable; at least to me.
    I am having some layouts coming out with nothing on them when I know that I saved them properly. Others come out โ€œcock eyedโ€ and extend beyond their boundary when I know I have never used that particular paz or layout with a trick drop!

    In what I wanted to suggest I borrowed a little wisdom from Solomon. I was thinking of the story where two women were fighting over a baby and Solomon said โ€œhe would solve the problem by cutting the baby in half!โ€ The real mother not wanting to see any harm come to the child told Solomon to โ€œlet the other mother have itโ€!

    Solomon in his wisdom knew who the real mother was by who cared the most about the child! (See 1Kings 3:16-28)


    So how does this relate? Well perhaps you can just put out a sign with like a one day notice in areas where there are actually disagreements! That notice could say something to the effect that โ€œall pazโ€™s in the area will be picked up as there is a disagreement.โ€ Those involved can post on the interactive sign for or against and then you can act accordingly.

    I know that I like the places I have placed pazโ€™s, but if I saw it was causing grief to someone, I might be willing to move to avoid affecting the whole area!

    For those who are just able to get on for the first time, it isnโ€™t necessarily a bad thing to see a lot of pazโ€™s already up! I think it was a harder thing for me to get on and see the emptiness! Sorry for the book, ๐Ÿ˜ฆ what can I say I like to write!
    Merry Christmas and happy Hanukkah! Agape’

    • #61 by JasonMK on 2011.12.22 - 6:25 am

      What you are suggesting sounds like extra man hours for the company, which translates into higher costs. There2 is aimed to run lean and mean, so random can also be translated into cost effective. Which, in the end, is the best Christmas gift we can be getting from MW this time of year. And your verse does relate, and I think we can all agree that MW cares the most about this child considering all he has done to get it back up and running.

      Having said all that, not a bad suggestion. And There does look beautiful right now. Merry Christmas.

    • #62 by Juli on 2011.12.22 - 8:00 am

      AgapeLove says “I know that I like the places I have placed pazโ€™s, but if I saw it was causing grief to someone, I might be willing to move to avoid affecting the whole area! ”

      Thank you AgapeLove that you MIGHT be willing to move. But unfortunately that is NOT “the world” sure wish it was. In fact in THERE bad behavior is magnified by the anonymity of hiding behind a computer. Behaviors that would never be done in broad daylight face to face are played out in THERE.

      In real life does anyone interact with others by griefing? Actually sadly we are seeing a rise in self centeredness everywhere as evidenced by bullying in schools, domestic violence, and corporate/business scams and greed to name a few. So not surprised we see GRIEFING as an accepted institution by many in THERE.

      So bring on the PAZ pickups! Don’t think a sign asking people to agree and vote on agreeing is gonna change anything.

  26. #63 by JasonMK on 2011.12.21 - 6:57 am

    I do love the sound of logging in to There in the morning, thanks again MW.

  27. #64 by JonmiChel There on 2011.12.20 - 8:57 pm

    MIchael Wilson, I’ve been sending emails to feedback@thereinc.com about an error I get anytime I try to sign in There and HAVE TO UPDATE. The thing is that I won’t be able to update and won’t be able to pay my suscription.

    Please, it’s the second time I’ve sent an email about this report…. the first was a few time ago… Is anyone reading that address account?

    PS: I’ve tried downloading the client from the website and still have to update. Client on website is not updated.


    • #65 by AgapeLove on 2011.12.21 - 8:19 am

      JomiChel, not sure what download you are using , but this link works best for me.


      then we found that if you are in a sort of loop where you are continually asked to do the updates, the best thing is to do an uninstall ,then reinstall ; that solved the problem for me!

    • #67 by darkrounge on 2011.12.21 - 10:01 am

      Yeah, Michael, your team needs to read the emails ๐Ÿ™‚

      • #68 by Dan Samuel on 2011.12.23 - 2:03 pm

        Darkrounge, as I believe was already explained to you in email, the situation is that you bought a subscription on 2011-12-17 19:18:25 GMT, but then cancelled it on 2011-12-17 20:22:55

        As noted when making a subscription:

        Cancellations are *immediate* and you will not be able to login again until you create a new subscription. There is no refund for any ‘unused portions’ of the subscription.

        PayPal also gives a warning to that effect when you request a cancellation, though their’s is admittedly more opaque… something about “you will not be able to resume this subscription profile, are you sure?”

        While we might *wish* that PayPal offered a ‘cancel at end of month’ feature, it seems they do not, (I hope someday they do, since that would be cool).

    • #69 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.12.21 - 11:46 am

      They have a small staff working on everything, so the emails do get read I’m sure in the order they get them. Then the issues are worked on most likely based on seriousness of them…but don’t expect a direct reply especially a fast direct reply. What exactly happens when you try to update? The client on the site is current but patches are downloaded separate. I’ve never downloaded a 3d world software that did not require an update directly after.

      • #70 by darkrounge on 2011.12.21 - 11:49 pm

        No, nothing to do with updates for me.
        Payment went through, no subscription! … Emailed them 4days ago!

    • #71 by McKensy on 2011.12.22 - 12:43 am

      Maybe try download and run the full installer:

      • #72 by darkrounge on 2011.12.23 - 4:11 pm

        If that was aimed at me, I’ve done that.
        That’s how I knew I apparently wasn’t subscribed…

        I’ve sent them a message via paypal, hopefully they read it asap ๐Ÿ™‚

  28. #73 by Lady_Tigrane on 2011.12.20 - 7:38 am

    I’ve gotten permission from Hubby to link up and verify my paypal acct. I’ve already got the funds in Paypal, just right now tho I’ve got some heavy real life stuff to get thru, done, survive… etc. My Mom passed away last nite.

    I want to personally thank EVERYONE’s outpouring of condolences, prayers and support. I don’t really think I could have gotten thru it all without you.

    And I want to thank Samsyn, Bruce, and most of all Michael Wilson for bringing there back at a very critical time for me. It was like you all knew There was so very needed by the thereian community.

    Love ya all

    • #74 by Cef on 2011.12.20 - 12:06 pm

      Sorry to hear about your mother Tig. Glad to know that you will be able to enjoy There again. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • #75 by 12mandy on 2011.12.21 - 8:38 am

        so very sorry to hear about sad loss of your mom my prayers are for her,RIP

    • #76 by AgapeLove on 2011.12.20 - 12:41 pm

      Sorry to hear about your Mom, Tigrane . You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.

    • #77 by SNIPERBAIT on 2011.12.20 - 1:25 pm

      Sorry to hear about your mama. Hope that you find peace and a smile in all of this.

    • #78 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.12.20 - 2:39 pm

      ๐Ÿ˜ฅ You have my condolences ma.

    • #79 by seany35 on 2011.12.20 - 4:20 pm

      sorry to hear about your mother tig sends you a big hug

    • #80 by Basya on 2011.12.20 - 7:27 pm

      My condolences, Tigrane. I well remember when my mother died — I was a mess!

    • #81 by Fallax on 2011.12.21 - 5:51 am

      I am sorry to hear about your loss, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

    • #82 by softNdark on 2011.12.21 - 11:13 am

      May GOD be with you and your family.

    • #83 by Lady_Tigrane on 2011.12.21 - 12:23 pm

      I would tell Mom in the hospital about all the well wishes and prayers you all sent.. She told me to tell you all thank you all so much.

      May all of you feel as loved and blessed as I do.

    • #84 by Aaron Moe on 2011.12.29 - 5:02 am

      Sorry about your mother, Lady Tigrane. ๐Ÿ˜ฆ

      You know what?

      My mother ‘passed away’ when I was 2 but after hearing that, I should thank god that she died before I know her, lol.

      As same as that, you should thank god for everything, you’ll have what’s better if you do good activites.

      And as what Islam says “Do a thing, Allah gives you two things.” <- I have no idea how to say it in a better way to be understood in English.

      Maybe my words won't help you cuz you are not Moslem, but that's what Moslems says.. (which I'm one of them, lol.)

      Anyways, Good luck, and I wish good things happen in your future. ๐Ÿ™‚

  29. #85 by SNIPERBAIT on 2011.12.20 - 6:29 am

    Here is an important question, maybe already answered, but am to tired from working to search. I have a good friend in the military. He ends up be sent out sometimes for about 6 months time, then back on land for about 6 months. From what he has told me, during the 6 months out he would not have internet access ability to be able to enjoy THERE. So, when he is fixing to be deployed again, if he cancels subscription, when he is back inland again he can reactivate account correct? and if yes, then is it just subscribing as he did in the first place or different?

    I find this question of high importance for I know quite a few people besides my friend that are active military and if they joined game would be faced with same situation. Again, am quite tired, so help from Dan Samuel’s or Mr Wilson with an “official” answer on this would be great. From what I have read, it seems if a person cancels, then there is account is no more at all. Tired, thanks for the help. Now back to no sleep and working to much lol


    • #86 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.12.20 - 2:33 pm

      Yes they will be able to pay 6 months then cancel to return to pay. “#153 by Dan Samuel on 2011.12.16 – 10:47 pm

      Be warned (again โ€“ itโ€™s on that page with the โ€œSign me up!โ€ button, I mean) that if you cancel your subscription, it cancels it IMMEDIATELY, even if you had โ€˜time left on itโ€™ and there are no refunds. So to get your moneyโ€™s worth you should cancel at the end of your period.

      But if you follow that prescription, you could use the โ€˜skipping stone subscription strategyโ€™ and play every other month (or whatever ๐Ÿ™‚ as you saw fit.”

      • #87 by SNIPERBAIT on 2011.12.20 - 7:18 pm

        Thanks Andrew. I will be letting him know and am glad to have had this answered. Have a good one and a “Merry Christmas”!!

      • #88 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.12.21 - 11:48 am

        YW, I don’t celebrate but Merry Xmas to you too. I’m more of a new years guy lol.

  30. #89 by Ayla on 2011.12.19 - 11:03 pm

    I am having a hard time with paypal because when I try to pay it says I need to add another credit card. I already have the credit card I own on paypal. Then I submit the one I already have it says its already linked so I hit cancel and it goes to another page where I say continue and it goes back to the first page and says my address isnt verified o.O I have lived here for 5 years and its been on my paypal account for 5 years so I am not sure what is up with paypal. Anyone else have this issue that has a solution?

    • #90 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.21 - 3:25 am

      PayPal has a system of verifying address that they follow to ensure you actually receive mail sent to the address you specify — they send a snail-mail letter with a code in it, when you get the letter, you enter it on their site and your address is verified. If you haven’t done that, your address isn’t considered “verified” even if you’ve had it on your account for years — and a verified address is one of the requirements to be able to pay by subscription. Yes, it’ll take a few days (3-4 business days for the letter to arrive, usually), but once done, if your credit card has been verified (a similar process, they post a tiny transaction and, after it clears through in 3-4 business days, you enter a code that shows on your card’s online activity page), you’ll be good to go.

  31. #91 by lynrose on 2011.12.19 - 6:44 pm

    Ha, I actually planned to open up a PayPal account to help with selling my books for school. Wanting to go on There made me stop procrastinating! Well, on the creating a PayPal account, that is. I still have to, you know, actually try selling the books.

  32. #92 by MickeyHawk on 2011.12.19 - 12:36 pm

    If a program exists where is it located ?

    • #93 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.19 - 5:28 pm

      If you’ve already retrieved your avatar, but haven’t installed the 3D client yet, go to http://www.there.com and log in to There Central with your avatar name and password; once There Central loads, click your avatar name (at the top) to get to your profile, then select “Get There” in the top menus to get to the download page to install the client. Alternately, if you have ThereIM installed, you can log into ThereIM, click “Profile” at the bottom to view your profile, then click “Get There”.

      If you haven’t already retrieved your avatar, and are at least 18 years of age and willing to pay a $10 monthly subscription via PayPal, go to http://www.there.com and click “Invite Me” in the lower left, then follow the instructions carefully.

  33. #94 by MrScrooge on 2011.12.19 - 8:35 am

    Currently waiting for Paypal to mail me something so I can confirm my location(it would have been a lot easier had I not lost the plug in to my scanner but oh well.) Went There Test hunting, didn’t find any. Wondering if Dr. Bishop(oops, I mean Michael Wilson) forgot to add them back in. If they aren’t coming back then I propose a nice There funeral so we can all remember the hours of joy and delight we had knocking them around.

    • #95 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.19 - 5:21 pm

      I haven’t seen a “Test” avie since I got back in. Since they were used mainly to monitor the servers (both terrain and avman), they probably aren’t really needed during this phase — the servers are being monitored pretty closely anyway. Once things settle down to a “steady state”, I suspect we’ll see them back in world (but probably with their force fields on).

      • #96 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.26 - 6:29 pm

        I did notice something interesting tonight, relative to this; there’s an avi named Avi911 who shows a join date in August of this year, and has a There-owned symbol on his name tag (same as, say, Charlie_BST and CCR_Gina had, not the “gear” symbol I recall from There_Test avies). Whether this was the original Guinea Pig avi, the one used to test migration and “alpha test” the cloud servers and such before the member guinea pigs were allowed in, the new version of There_Test, or is the “online police”, I don’t know — but it’s pretty clear none of us were allowed to create new accounts in August of 2011; nor can we get the There symbol on our nametags at this point, since they aren’t hiring in-world workers so far.

    • #97 by AgapeLove on 2011.12.20 - 6:35 am

      I believe I saw a lone displaced “There Test” on Onverse ! Any way hope you get in soon ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #98 by soledadnegativa on 2011.12.22 - 8:24 pm

      Just keep your ff off long enough to have a decent game for once, if you just want someting to knock around that wont shoot back at you drop a pack or a ball.

      • #99 by MrScrooge on 2011.12.23 - 10:28 am

        Good ole Soledad aka Gangrel or whatever name you are going to use this time. I always keep my FF off, if you paid any attention to your surroundings you would have picked that up. Stop talking to your imaginary friends and pretending the whole world hates you. Good day, sir.

  34. #100 by justagreatguy on 2011.12.19 - 7:47 am

    I need to cancel a account for a avie I just needed to get my stuff from, I’m confused on how to do this , do I go to Paypal or my profile or send a email to there? I don’t want to guess this and get it wrong and have to pay, just want to do it right the first time without guessing.

    • #101 by jimony on 2011.12.19 - 3:05 pm

      I believe that as long as you don’t put in the paypal information in your avie profile it won’t be subscribed. If you just let it sit there then the avie will be there in the future if you ever change your mind. If you know you will never want it, it would be nice to be able to set it free so the name is available to someone else, though.

    • #102 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.19 - 5:25 pm

      If you have NOT subscribed the avie you’re done with, you don’t need to do anything.

      If you’ve already subscribed for the avie you want to cancel (from your wording, I presume this is the case), you’ll need to cancel the subscription through PayPal (the “recurring payments” option is in a couple different places for different people because of ongoing changes in PayPal’s menus, but if you do a search for “recurring payment” within PayPal you should find both locations to check). Do be aware that you’ll stop that avie’s login privileges immediately — double check his pockets first.

    • #104 by AgapeLove on 2011.12.20 - 6:41 am

      That was my original intention when I paid extra for an alt, then realized that the alt was worth more to me than anything it might hold! So I plan to keep it on for the month; I just hope I can figure out as well how to cancel at just the right time. I wish that we would get the warning emails that we did when propertys needed refilled!

      • #105 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.21 - 3:27 am

        Lots of ways to remind yourself when the subscription is due. For a start, you can check the cycle dates on your PayPal. Once you know the date, you can set up a reminder on your cell phone, use appointment book software on your computer (some e-mail programs have this built in), or go low-tech and put a sticky note on your monitor frame… ๐Ÿ˜‰

  35. #106 by Mickey Hawk on 2011.12.19 - 5:49 am

    Don’t understand how program is working for some and not others going to There.com it should work if it is a proper address?

  36. #107 by Jypsi on 2011.12.19 - 12:59 am

    bought my subscription and all went smoothly,had no problems with it or in world so far.glad to be back good job guys ๐Ÿ™‚

  37. #108 by Wizzle on 2011.12.19 - 12:55 am

    Paid my subscription, everything ran smoothly. I’ve missed this place.

    Great job MW and his team.

  38. #109 by Fallax on 2011.12.18 - 5:56 pm

    All going well ..paypal worked well (as it always has for me )…Thank you Michael and team, its getting very exciting.

    Just one issue..not sure if its just me ..but when you rent in tyre does the enviromental controls work?..They dont seem to for me…

    • #110 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.19 - 3:13 am

      I had a birdhouse in Tyr for a month (I let the rental go because I ran out of Tbucks a week or so before I could buy more), and environment controls (both lighting and snow/rain/etc.) worked fine for me at that time. Check that your client doesn’t have “Weather on” turned off (it’s under There, Settings, on the World tab); that would cause you to be unable to see weather settings (and maybe lighting as well) even though they’re working fine for others.

      • #111 by Fallax on 2011.12.19 - 3:29 pm

        Thank you ImageMaker ๐Ÿ™‚ I will check those settings when I log in..

  39. #112 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 5:25 pm

    A couple updates back, Juli asked the following:

    “5) Can you give notice anytime during the month of subscription that you will not be renewing a subscription?”

    She got this response from Michael:

    “Yes. I need to make sure we donโ€™t cancel you until the end of the month.”

    That would be a more desirable condition than what we’re now told is the case: that if we cancel a sub (say, for an alt we don’t want or need to log in every month, or for a family member who won’t have Internet access for a while for one reason or another), login authorization for that account will be terminated immediately and any remaining portion of the billing cycle will be lost without refund. At present, as far as I can find, we can’t even terminate a subscription from There; we have to do it via our PayPal account management interface.

    Now, I realize this stuff isn’t really “done” yet — but I’d like to say that what Michael said to expect is a lot better than what we seem to have gotten. Adding the interface to cancel from There’s end may involve getting into the “brilliant” code connected with accounts and payments that Samsyn mentioned recently, so may not be practical until things settle a bit — but that ought to be the desideratum. As things stand now, it’s like signing up for automatic payments of a monthly bill, and being able to cancel it only by placing a recurring stop payment with your bank (expensive) because the biller can’t find a way to stop it. In banking, the described situation would result, pretty promptly, in the biller being barred from processing *any* automatic payments, at least until they fix the problem.

    No, I don’t feel There is under any obligation to let us continue to log in after cancelling (though most other services that operate by subscription do, and the per-avatar cost of doing so ought to be quite small compared to the goodwill penalty of what we have now) — but I think it should be a priority, once the nitty-gritty work of getting the world fully open is in the bag, to at least add the interface to cancel a sub from There’s end. It might be more critical than that if PayPal considers having to cancel a subscription from their end in the same category as a charge back.

    • #113 by Michael Wilson on 2011.12.18 - 5:31 pm

      Usually, when someone cancels their subscription it’s because they don’t want to have anything more to do with the service in question.

      If we didn’t immediately cancel the account, I’m sure that at least 50% (probably more) of the cancelers would be be sending angry emails “I TOLD you I wanted to be cancelled NOW”, another 50% wouldn’t care, and the remaining 50% meant “Cancel my account at the last possible moment”. (Yes, I realize those add up to 150%, which illustrates our inability to make everyone happy at this time).

      So, we chose the path which we think would work for most people, knowing that it would not please some set of them. Perhaps in the future, if it’s more important than other things, we can add other ways to cancel which would allow you to “Cancel your account at the last possible moment this billing period”.

      • #114 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 5:44 pm

        “Usually, when someone cancels their subscription itโ€™s because they donโ€™t want to have anything more to do with the service in question.”

        No argument with this, but as the response to the very idea, when it was floated several months ago, that “There might reopen, maybe,” should suggest, There isn’t a typical case. Most of what I’ve heard about people cancelling subscriptions here has been relative to alts they don’t want to pay for every month, but may want to bring back later — or people who, for financial reasons, may not be able to pay even $10 *every* month (though many of this last class may be unable to subscribe anyway, for one reason or another — and I honestly don’t know if, all together, they’d add up to enough revenue to be worth worrying about on a business basis).

        Like lots of other stuff; as you say, you can’t please everyone (and, knowing that, shouldn’t spend too much effort trying), but I do really think you should at least make it possible, as soon as it’s practical to do so, to cancel from a user’s account management pages within there.com, rather than forcing them to do it through the rather clunky and hard to find PayPal recurring payment interface. FWIW, I’ve used services that offered the option of “cancel immediately” and “don’t renew at the end of the current cycle.” That’d be the most desirable way to handle it, in my opinion.

      • #115 by Juli on 2011.12.18 - 5:59 pm

        Canceling a monthly automatically paid subscription to me means it will end at the END of the month OF subscription and NOT automatically be charged for the NEXT month. If I paid for one MONTH then There needs to give me what I paid for which was a MONTHLY subscription.

        I should be able to anytime during my subscription to notify There and say “I will NOT renew” OR “I do NOT want to continue automatic MONTHLY payments.”

        To turn OFF the subscription before the end of it (the month) does not make any sense except to lessen the potential load on the servers of There and not to give the customer what they PAID for which was a MONTHLY subscription.

      • #116 by Hugsie on 2011.12.19 - 1:48 am

        โ€œUsually, when someone cancels their subscription itโ€™s because they donโ€™t want to have anything more to do with the service in question.โ€

        Er nope… this only applies to people who don’t have alts. I do have an alt but i really do not want to pay for it’s subscription EVERY month, I’m not even sure i can with my limited income and the inability to sell-back T$.

        This is a simple concept. I want to be able to pay $10 for a 30 day period and renew on my own terms, not automatically sucking money away from my paypal account every month. I don’t want to “cancel” my alt’s membership outright, I still want to keep all the inventory when I choose not to renew, and get it all back when I do renew.

      • #117 by Hugsie on 2011.12.19 - 1:51 am

        Would also be nice if i could pay an extra $10 in advance for another month when I know I have the money to spare. $20 for 2 months, $30 for 3, and so forth.

      • #118 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.12.19 - 5:45 am

        Why does it make sense you have to cancel for next month so many days or weeks in advance if them canceling you on the spot does not make sense to you? The TOS can easily take care of all of the “this is what should happen” or ” I paid so I have rights” by stating that when you cancel the services will stop o the spot. The thing is it costs something to have your avatar created on the servers even on off months, so they have to set it up to make canceling seem like a less desired option as much as possible. So you cancel halfway through the month with the intentions to return 2 months later…..so cutting you off on day 15 rather than day 30 helps them offset the costs of hosting your “omg I cannot pay 10 but every few months” avatar.

      • #119 by darkrounge on 2011.12.19 - 9:30 am

        I accidentally cancelled my account not realizing it’d effect my subscription.
        Since I’m one of those individuals who hate to have “Recurring memberships” on their bank statement and paypal statement, as most of the time I don’t realize money is being taken out.

        I emailed you regarding this and I’m yet to receive a reply, I’d love to go back ingame.. If it means I have to stay subscribed.. But unless you email me back, I can’t.
        It’d be great if you were to cancel my subscription so I can re-pay again…

        As I’m unable to access your game atm because of that little error your system has with cancelling subscriptions!

      • #120 by darkrounge on 2011.12.19 - 9:32 am

        On a note of my previous comment.
        I only spent 1hour within the virtual world, not realizing if I were to cancel my subscription it’d affect my account!

        I spent about $20 buying therebucks, yet to realize I cannot enter the virtual world again!

      • #121 by acemastter on 2011.12.19 - 1:07 pm

        So, we chose the path which we think would work for most people? so is that why you went with paypal knowing only 30% of people use it lol and 70% dont wont to use it and 50% cant use it and yes i know to that this adds up to 150% lol

        P.S. im in the 50% that cant use it lol

      • #122 by Michael Wilson on 2011.12.19 - 2:34 pm

        Where did you get these percentages?

      • #123 by David H on 2011.12.19 - 5:23 pm

        I think we know where, and in that place, the sun does not frequent.

      • #124 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.12.19 - 8:09 pm

        Actually Ace a lil over 15% of humans use PayPal. So the # of how many cannot use it has little relevance, from what I’ve read the only 2 countries known as big online spenders not supported are Bangladesh and Egypt.

      • #125 by Dina Warren on 2011.12.31 - 1:46 pm

        How do I cancel my account? I called the cancellation phone number but the number is disconnected.

  40. #126 by JefryC on 2011.12.18 - 4:22 pm

    If there is a banned avatar would they be unbanned shortly after sending in ID ?

    • #127 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 5:27 pm

      At present, no — Michael has said all proof-of-age processing will be handled after opening is completed. Once they’re able to spend time on those bans, I still wouldn’t expect the process to be instant; it might require verifying driver’s license information with the states of issue (a slow process even within the USA, never mind internationally), and there might be a significant backlog of age bans by that point.

  41. #128 by tazzerous on 2011.12.18 - 2:12 pm

    I guess these minority countries dont matter in the grand scheme of things huh

    • #129 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 5:33 pm

      Tazzerous, from what Michael and Samsyn have posted here, I’m sure it’s not a case of minority countries not mattering, it’s just a case of what can be done in a cost effective manner, right now. Michael has already said they’re considering adding Stripe, but it’ll be after opening is finished, if at all, because what’s needed right now is to get the majority of users paying as soon as possible to put the stopper in the money drain. Don’t forget, too, that There needs a way to verify age; that’s tricky enough to do in the United States where PayPal does a lot of it for them; they have to be sure Stripe does something similar, and come up with a backup method in case there’s reason to believe someone has put one over on Stripe (as noted, there are some countries where it’s actually illegal for a citizen to send the information There would need to do this).

      We seem to have a relatively large number of users from Egypt (I’ve heard from at least three on these blog comments, which is a bunch given the small total population here); I would expect that to cause There to treat your country as relatively important — but even so, they can only do what they can do.

    • #130 by Simmons on 2011.12.20 - 12:01 pm

      That doesn’t even make sense. A country full of Asians is not a ‘minority’ country, Asians are the norm. (Substitute Asian for African, South American etc.)

      For example : Whites are the majority of the United States and therefore Hispanics are a minority. — Now in Africa Whites are the minority since blacks make up most of the total population.

      “Minority Countries” – Rofl. Sorry but I seriously laughed out loud in real life at that.

  42. #131 by tazzerous on 2011.12.18 - 2:11 pm

    Please introduce this stripe thing soon, because several countries literally are not allowed to use PayPal, and as i will keep mentioning over and over (heh) that’s just unfair.

  43. #132 by Therefan123 on 2011.12.18 - 10:42 am

    Just thought I would show you all but this music video looks a lot like there avatars and this is a very professional video.

    in case embed doesn’t work link:: http://youtu.be/Co0tTeuUVhU

    • #133 by Hugsie on 2011.12.20 - 2:44 am

      That’s just Filters/cell-shading on actual videos on live actors. It’s not 3D rendering.

  44. #134 by Joe_R203 on 2011.12.18 - 10:38 am

    Okay don’t get me wrong but, I really think There should be up and running 100% before you start charging. I am still experiencing lag and rubber banding. It’s SO annoying to start running, and see the avatar jump back to where it started from. Or when you stop running and it either continues a few more steps, or mysteriously appears 20 feet (based on avatar’s height) from where you stopped running. This mostly happens when the avatar is near an object. Many times I have had my avatar walk sideways to line up something I’m about to drop, and then it moves back a step or two in the direction it came from. Also having trouble dropping some items from time to time. They time out. I personally think There ran better on it’s own servers. Not too sure about these “Cloud” servers.

    • #135 by Andy on 2011.12.19 - 1:33 am

      Joe ….There needed to start charging as soon as possible to get some money coming in to pay the bills ….no the world isnt perfect in some ways but for some thats part of the charm of the place ….right guys? lol

      • #136 by Joe_R203 on 2011.12.19 - 3:13 pm

        Actually I think my rubber bandingwas caused by my slow cable connection. Charter Cable recently increased everyone up to 30Mbps. My modem was outdated for the new speed and technology (DOCSIS 3) so I went and bought a new modem. Speed was still slow. They said that my router was probably the cause. I thought it was weird because my router is an “N” router capable of handling up to 300Mbps. But I went and bought a new one anyway (with more pretty LED lights lol) Hooked it up, speed was still slow. YouTube vids buffered like crazy, some web sites loaded so slow they timed out. Man I was pissed. A tech came out and checked on it. He said some numbers were too high and added a splitter in line to cut the numbers down some. He said to give it awhile and everything should be okay. Well it wasn’t. Speeds were still way too slow. So I called them again and told them to send someone out again. This guy actually went out and checked the lines outside and found the culprit. A signal amplifier that was put in to help with poor signal strength a few years ago. I guess when Charter increased the speed, combined with the amp, it was overloading and causing signal drop. Think of it like the There Voice Trainer. You talk too loud and it makes you reset because there’s too much “noise”. So the tech removed the amplifier and now I’m averaging 28-47Mbps Download and 3-4Mbps Upload. He had asked me if I wanted to upgrade to their 100Mbps Down / 5Mbps Up speed but the price was almost triple so I’ll stay where I am now. So anyway, I logged on today and didn’t experience any lag or rubber banding. I hope this really was the cause for that. Now, if only the “Team” could find my missing paint jobs, custom wheels and pre-paid rents I had before There closed down, I’d be a really happy Therian. ๐Ÿ™‚

  45. #137 by 12mandy on 2011.12.18 - 10:10 am

    does anyone know when we can purchase island hoods

    • #138 by Andy on 2011.12.19 - 1:28 am

      No date has been given for this Mandy but Team Pheonix are working hard to make it happen as soon as its possible of that im sure

  46. #139 by Missiselle on 2011.12.18 - 8:10 am

    we got to pay to enter the world, that’s what i understand, right?
    ‘cus, they said; the first month of letting all the players, members, (howeveruwanttocallit), would be Premium.
    i don’t get this anymore, bud i’m still not done with learning english, i got to go to school again –‘


    • #140 by darkrounge on 2011.12.18 - 9:53 am

      Yeah, they’ve changed their status now. It’s now changed to a recurring payment every month.

  47. #141 by Exotique on 2011.12.18 - 2:27 am

    What if i don’t have a paypal account ? i can never log in to there.com right? damn :/

    • #142 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 6:24 am

      I’m afraid that’s correct. Opening a PayPal account isn’t difficult, but in order to subscribe, you’ll have to be verified, and have a “payment method” connected and verified on your PayPal — either a checking account or credit card (or a prepaid card that accepts recurring payments — Green Dot apparently doesn’t allow anything from PayPal, so I’d suggest a prepaid not linked to Green Dot if that’s your route).

    • #143 by Aaron Moe on 2011.12.29 - 5:06 am


      PayPal – Shit.

  48. #144 by mirukujcruz on 2011.12.17 - 10:02 pm


    • #145 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 7:21 am

      We’ve got reports (below, in older comments) that a checking account verified with PayPal has worked without a credit card. My own account has no credit card — though I have the debit card from my checking linked as if a credit card — and I had no trouble at all opening my subscription with payment take from PayPal balance. Note, however, that your PayPal account *and the address they have on file* must be verified, and so must at least one “payment method” (checking or credit card, apparently) — and I think your payment from checking account has to be via ACH, rather than e-check (which may limit those outside the USA, I’m not certain how PayPal handles this for accounts not linked to a US bank, US dollar account).

  49. #146 by Avatar 66 on 2011.12.17 - 7:16 pm

    I am glad Soosi got someone to help her. I am glad I got you rich hoarders to give a little bit. That is exactly what I wanted you to do. What was up all your ying yangs because I said the term crying poorhouse and it was the words of a scrooge? Get real. Put your money where your mouths are and pay some other avatars way too. I have heard people crying poorhouse on this page too much so that is why I was trying to get her to realize it wasn’t much money. But then she came back with terminal illness and other hardships and that wasn’t said before I said what I said. So get off of your high horses. Big fakes.

    • #147 by NathanAvis on 2011.12.18 - 5:59 am

      Your ranting is very hard to understand. Are you having a go at the people who are making fantastical stories as to why they won’t pay but should be allowed in for free?
      Or are you being a crazy fellow and asking other people pay for other people, creating a false economy for There.Com simply because “they shud cuz theryr rich, yo”?

      • #148 by Kayleigh Lace on 2011.12.18 - 9:28 am

        Seriously – cowardly person hiding behind a generic name like Avatar – grow up already. You’re not 18 yet are you! Sour grapes ๐Ÿ˜ฆ

    • #149 by NathanAvis on 2011.12.18 - 6:10 am

      Never mind, I just found out what sorts of crazy things you were babbling about in the comments section earlier.
      I detest freeloaders in There.Com but that person was not even freeloading they were just asking how they could GIVE their items away to people that are close to them as they can no longer afford to play. To top it off they are not a very well person and you went for gold on them. You should be ashamed!

    • #150 by Fallax on 2011.12.18 - 5:52 pm

      All I can say is OMG

  50. #151 by Domano on 2011.12.17 - 2:51 pm

    Nevermind…Saja is there…just fell first but then it appeared

    • #152 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 5:37 am

      Yeah, if you log in there, you’ll fall or “jump” for a while until the surface you’re standing on loads.

  51. #153 by Domano on 2011.12.17 - 2:50 pm

    Ah…there is no Saja….

  52. #154 by Domano on 2011.12.17 - 2:25 pm

    Thanks for changing the Makena Paypal interface. The subscription went through – am in.

  53. #155 by MrScrooge on 2011.12.17 - 2:10 pm

    Wow, I thought setting up my Paypal would be a pain in the ass but it took me less than five minutes. Glad to report that I am There!

  54. #156 by gist on 2011.12.17 - 12:55 pm

    Thanks for update

    will there be able to do “gift subscriptions” anytime soon?

    will there be card tables in phenox park anytime soon? miss my random cards games ๐Ÿ™‚

    is there such a think as only subcribing for a month to organinze inventory between accounts?

  55. #157 by knighthawk101 on 2011.12.17 - 12:43 pm

    hmmm, I almost broke and verified a paypal account with my bank account. geez with all these problems now. sheesh. ain’t no way.

    • #158 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 7:33 am

      What problems are those, Knighthawk? The only “problems” I’ve seen reported here are related to not having PayPal correctly set up to allow subscriptions. If you bank in the USA, set up a verified address (which requires waiting a few days for a paper letter to arrive) and verify a bank account or credit card (can be the same few days waiting for a transaction to post so you can view it online), there aren’t any problems; it’s worked fine for hundreds of people so far. It’s also worked fine for a number of folks in other locations (I personally know of two people in Netherlands and one in Malaysia who got in without a hitch). I was mentally preparing to have to apply for a credit card (haven’t had any for several years, and generally like it that way), but it turns out the setup I have is acceptable to PayPal for recurring payments.

  56. #159 by Bruce on 2011.12.17 - 12:38 pm

    My apologies for locking everyone out this morning.
    I forgot to remove the Beta-test members only restriction from our post-maintenance open scripts.
    Thanks to Dan for saving us!

    • #160 by mimi06 on 2011.12.17 - 6:19 pm

      lol, bruce.. gave me good reason to get BUSY! rofl.. thank you for all you do!

    • #161 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 7:27 am

      If that’s the worst mistake you made yesterday, you’re doing pretty well. ‘tu

  57. #162 by darkrounge on 2011.12.17 - 12:10 pm

    Hey, Michael, I’ve got a huge problem.
    The help tab doesn’t work on the website and I’ve accidentally merged my legendary account with an alt account by accident.
    I want to cancel this merge, is it possible?

    My name is the same as it is in there.

    • #163 by darkrounge on 2011.12.17 - 1:17 pm

      ALSO, now it’s saying I haven’t payed and making me re-pay again.
      I’ve got my transaction ID and you should have received the email from my paypal stating I have paid to account: Darkrounge!
      Can you look into this please!

      I would contact you via the help section, but it’s not working.

      • #164 by Greenie on 2011.12.17 - 3:36 pm

        Hi darkrounge, You can send in your details via feedback@thereinc.com as per your resurrection invitation instructions. That should help get the information to the team and protect your privacy. I hope it helps.

      • #165 by ant1977 on 2011.12.17 - 4:49 pm

        The help section is feedback@thereinc.com

  58. #166 by xSnoopy on 2011.12.17 - 11:20 am


    Been shooting in Zephyr for about the last 30 mins and ………



    Thanks to the Phoenix team!! Great job guys!!

    • #167 by Lady_Tigrane on 2011.12.17 - 3:56 pm

      Wish I could be there too… I tried the snail mail address confirmation but that doesn’t make the account verified… Hubby won’t let me attach our bank account or debit card to paypal. I’m Outa Luck.

      Enjoy There Everyone. I’ll try to keep in touch

      • #168 by Achenar on 2011.12.17 - 10:57 pm

        Awwwwwww Lady T ๐Ÿ˜ฆ May I make a suggestion? Give your hubby a copy of Lyistrata to read and suggest that he wise up! ๐Ÿ™‚

      • #169 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.12.18 - 3:13 am

        I may be wrong but I think they require physical address verification not a verified account itself. But I was going to do the snail mail one also cause they said it worked but don’t know now if it aint work for you. The catch is from what I gather you are limited in total spending capabilities with an unverified account.

      • #170 by wizzle on 2011.12.18 - 4:26 am

        If it helps, you can attach it temporarily. If you attach it, add some credit to your paypay account, then cancel the connection between your paypal and ban (to be extra sure, you can call your bank and ask that they prevent any money going from your bank account to paypal).

      • #171 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 5:40 am

        I suppose you could open an independent account (at another bank, if he’s worried about “right of offset”) just for PayPal use…

      • #172 by Lady_Tigrane on 2011.12.18 - 3:48 pm

        I may have to set up an independent account eventually, but just now I’ve got alot on my plate in real life. My mom, whom I’ve always been very close to, is critically ill and has been in ICU for over a month and prognosis doesn’t look good. I just hate being cut off from a lot of very good people who’ve been incredibly supportive during one of the hardest times of my life.

    • #173 by Aaron Moe on 2011.12.20 - 4:22 am

      Shit, LUCKY.

      I wish to be in There.com but.. PayPal ISNOT HELPING ME!

  59. #174 by Kate on 2011.12.17 - 10:05 am

    Its 11:30 am PAC why is the “world closed”?

  60. #175 by RedNova on 2011.12.17 - 9:32 am

    Paypal works fantastic, I use it for almost everything! Can’t wait to get my computer fixed and subscribe to There! Also I think we should have some tool to get all of our stuff to one account even if it’s already registered. Most people did not know about the migrate tool only works for unregistered accounts.

  61. #176 by qweasdzxc979 on 2011.12.17 - 9:23 am

    I subscribed with no problem using paypal. And now it says the world has been closed, and it’s well past matinence time.
    This is temporary right?

  62. #177 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.17 - 9:13 am

    Ut oh.

    There client says “world is open” in the main status message, and the avman status page shows all avman servers up and running continuously for the past hour or more — but when I try to log in, I get a “world is closed” login response. I’ve got platinum funpass, been logging in under testing for several weeks, and paid a subscription a couple days ago; I should be able to log in whether subscriptions are on or off. As far as I know, I haven’t done anything bad (I’m a pretty easy going type, and I’ve been a There user since 2004), and I can log into There Central with my browser without a problem.

    Hopefully, this is a temporary problem…

    • #178 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.17 - 10:03 am

      And now it’s back to normal operation (except no one else is in world yet, as far as I can tell). That was a heck of a glitch, glad to see they got it fixed up…

  63. #179 by Joe_R203 on 2011.12.17 - 8:35 am

    Is there a huge maintainence upgrade going on? Been getting “The World Is Closed” message all morning.

  64. #180 by martin71a on 2011.12.17 - 6:45 am

    whats happening i can not login at all and i am platnum are workin on it ?

  65. #181 by NathanAvis on 2011.12.17 - 6:22 am

    I feel a storm coming… ๐Ÿ˜€

  66. #182 by zonereport on 2011.12.17 - 6:20 am

    SWEET!! I made it in last night….Finallly after all this time the thrill of a buggy under my A55.

    however again this morning …the login page says “world is open” yet when I log in “world is closed” …paid my $10.00… did my paypal thing…I work hard for my money…hope to get some free days added to my next bill cycle to compensate for having paid for a month and not being able to get in because I’m not of the privalaged few that can always get in.

    • #183 by zonereport on 2011.12.17 - 10:40 am

      Sweet I made it back in ๐Ÿ˜€

      • #184 by Exotique on 2011.12.18 - 2:29 am

        do you think that we’re stealing money ? of course we’re working so hard for it , maybe more than you do , and asking for free days -_-‘ my ass

      • #185 by zonereport on 2011.12.18 - 12:42 pm

        Exotique…Are you a there employee?

    • #186 by Andy on 2011.12.17 - 12:23 pm

      Please tell me why you think you are above the rest of us ….demanding free days!!….we ALL work hard for our money ….Team Pheonix would not have closed the world for the length of time they did unless it was necesarry

  67. #187 by soledadnegativa on 2011.12.17 - 6:18 am

    Thanks for the updates, thanks for allowing us the opportunity to be in our V world again, ‘tu

  68. #188 by okalnix on 2011.12.17 - 5:44 am

    just pay for my alt.
    The loading page and to pay are easy done.
    No problems there.

    Thanks for the update.
    Good work there guy’s

  69. #189 by Vaughn_2 on 2011.12.17 - 3:43 am

    People paypal is the only way to go,I have been useing paypal for years for Ebay and many other things,besides theres a great App for paypal. Another note: Why do i have to reinstall There client eveytime i shut my computer down? I reinstall and it seems fine but once i shut my computer down and try to log in i get an Error..Blah blah blah stopped working error close program..

    • #190 by CardSharkRay on 2011.12.17 - 6:36 am

      whats up with the there .com world says its closed

    • #191 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.17 - 7:39 am

      This is probably caused by an incorrect setting for your hard disk caching — if you’ve got caching set to “improve performance” by delaying disk writes, your installation information may not be getting written to the hard disk before you shut down. Alternately, this kind of thing can also be caused by an antivirus that corrupts what goes to the disk, even while the cached copy (stored in your computer’s volatile memory, and lost on shutdown) is good. The first thing to try (because the easiest) is to disable your antivirus software while downloading and installing the client, then restart and reenable the antivirus before trying to log in. You could also check your performance settings (just where varies between Windows XP, Vista, and 7) to be sure it’s set to “write to disk immediately”, “write through”, or similar.

  70. #192 by Basya on 2011.12.16 - 9:58 pm

    Wowee!! Late last night I subscribed to There successfully and easily! Since I had been using Paypal for years with no issues, the process went smoothly and quickly!

    • #193 by Aaron Moe on 2011.12.17 - 9:03 am

      Well, I have issues with PayPal too, and I’m holding my patience expecting a new payment method :D. (Unless you’re nice and going to pay me.. who am I kidding? that would never happen lmfao.)

      Anyway, are you guys letting silver/bronze fun pass avatars subscribe at the moment?

      Lazy to reply again IF it’s a “Yes”.. so my other question is.. I have a Golden fun pass avatar that I used before the subscription fees were up, so can I reclaim it’s inventory without paying an extra 10$ for it?

      • #194 by Basya on 2011.12.17 - 3:57 pm

        As I understand it, if you had already reclaimed an avatar in ThereIM for example –or otherwise– you will not be able to use the reclaim tool. For example, after I reclaimed my primary avatar, Basya, I went ahead and reclaimed my other two alts (not sure why I did so — did me no good) in ThereIM. I’m now unable to use the reclaim tool to transfer inventories from my alts. Except for one or two things, I really don’t miss any of the other things. Sorry!

      • #195 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 6:21 am

        If subscriptions are “on”, any old funpass level (even blue) can subscribe and log in. I ran into a blue funpass just yesterday, apparently not yet upgraded after being *very* freshly subscribed.

  71. #196 by Detested_X on 2011.12.16 - 9:11 pm

    A mishap has occurred. My friend (Tony_Cruz) and I were playing in Arctic paintball zone and I was confronted by another member who called me “Allonzo”. Out of joking reasons only I agreed to being that person only to be banned minutes later for being their Alt. I don’t know who this person is, and would be happy to submit proof I am not who they are. Be it drivers license for the state of California or any other documentation necessary. I just paid for my account last night and have been very happy that There has come back only for this to happen. Please take the time out of your busy schedule and investigate this matter. It’s not fair one person called me by a name I don’t even know, and then to be punished for it.

    • #197 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.17 - 7:41 am

      Last information we had, any revisitation of bans or under age complaints will take place after opening is completed. Sorry, Detested, to hear this happened, but I’d have to say it’s a bad idea to answer to a name that’s not yours… ๐Ÿ˜ฆ

      • #198 by Detested_X on 2011.12.17 - 9:25 pm

        Yeah I guess so haha, he was just harassing me about it so I figured I’d just give in to make me happy. I have no idea who “Allonzo” is. It really sucks because I just paid for my account and now I can’t play.

      • #199 by Detested_X on 2011.12.17 - 9:25 pm

        Him * happy not me lol

    • #200 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.12.18 - 3:19 am

      Unless that was a staff member coming up to you thinking you were a previously banned member it makes no sense to me. Why would a normal user be going out of their way to expose a banned user? They must suck at life so bad to even bother in the first place. How many ppl could have a rl name Allonzo, why could they even ban anyone just for saying that’s their name in the first place? Are you certain that is why you’re banned?

      • #201 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 6:18 am

        I can see a staffer logging on under a “hider” avatar in order to try to identify an alt (though I’m not sure that actually occurs; There usually seems to be more “open” than that). I don’t see how they could misidentify someone as an alt, however, given they have full information about IP addresses of computers used to log in (or attempt it). Two things I can think of: one, that there was a report or suspicion that Detested was an “off site alt” — an avatar registered by one person, then “transferred” to another in violation of TOS (bannable for both original and new “owners”); two, that Detested shares an external IP (as in, connects through the same router) or is in the same dynamic IP pool (connects via the same provider and in the same geographical area) on an intermittent connection basis, either of which could make it look to There as if he was possibly the same user (“confirmed”, in this case, by answering to “Allonzo”). Note that for many/most permanent bans, maybe all of them, *all* computers behind the same router will be under the ban (and given the nature of dynamic IP addresses, even on “always on” connections like my cable modem, that’s probably done by MAC address or other means of extending the ban across the regular new IP leases that occur every few days).

  72. #202 by moneytalks99 on 2011.12.16 - 8:36 pm

    Why do I not have no pictures in the auctions, just a red x. I have to click on each auction to see what it is for. I tried internet explorer and Google chrome, both the same.

  73. #208 by JS on 2011.12.16 - 4:14 pm

    Nice picture of the cute girl standing on the rock. Looks like a fun shoot. I think you took that shot if I am not mistaken. It looks similar to your other photography so I am guess it is yours. Maybe that is in Cambodia. I hope you can get over to the Philippines also. I know they have a lot going on over there that would make for some good photography also.

    Also I am holding off on buying my subscription to There because I have to think what I want to do or have to do. I have all my things on one avatar so I would have to get that one but I was thinking I would use another avatar of mine instead. But I have them both migrated over. So I guess the tool wouldn’t work now to get my things. So I would have to buy two subscriptions. So my best bet is to pay the 10 dollars on Avatar 1 with my items then get Avatar 2 with the other name maybe 2 days before Avatar one is billed. Then have two avatars at once for 2 days giving me time to transfer things over. Then cancel Avatar 1 lol. Though I do have another avatar with all my items that I was selling in the auctions and I guess I can never get those created items to my other avatars right? I doubt if you will tell me because I am sure you can’t. Who knows how this will work. I might have to wait until you consider an alt situation. I don’t think my proposal of giving us a few tbucks for our 10 dollar upgraded accounts was accepted. But maybe you are still kicking it around.

    Oh yes I was thinking today how about a 3 day avatar pass. A 72 hour pass to enter so we can transfer files. Maybe coasting 1.99 to do it, Then again I paid 10 bucks for it initially and should get access to it somehow for nothing. I know you have your tool but you said that it won’t work for already claimed avatars. The unfair thing about that is you didn’t tell us early enough before we claimed them all. So since I was fast to claim all of my avatars that I paid 10 dollars for I am out of luck? Too bad I can’t merge three. Obtain my Auction items from one…Inventory from Another…and use another account’s name.

  74. #209 by 12mandy on 2011.12.16 - 3:53 pm

    i have insurence cover with my bank to cover all my credit and debit cards, from fraud,hackers,cards stolen,lost in post missused etc,so if paypal or anyother transaction done on internet
    is hacked,or missused by third party im covered, yes the money is taking out of my account at time of scam,but the insurence makes good,and my money is returned to me,then its up to insurence fraud department to find who culpet is and taking to court for hacking,or fraud whatever,so moral of this story is take out insurence so you can rest assured that your money
    is safe

  75. #210 by Guernseyman on 2011.12.16 - 3:46 pm

    Paid $10(ยฃ6.26 approx in UK) subscription with no problems looks like it worked OK for me, I just hope the people with problems get it sorted out quickly and that they can get on world and join in the fun. To be able to be on world is just like having a very early Christmas present to me, may I wish every one every where a HAPPY CHRISTMAS and may your NEWYEAR of 2012 be even HAPPIER!!. A special HAPPY CHRISTMAS to the TEAM PHONEIX and MICHAEL WILSON, hope it is truely happy for you all and a big thank you to you all.

    • #211 by martin71a on 2011.12.17 - 2:21 am

      cost me 6.66 form the uk lol and im good to go

      • #212 by cassi on 2011.12.18 - 5:54 am

        ยฃ6.66 for the 4 we have paid for as well lol. Guess he got in on a good exchange day rofl

  76. #213 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.16 - 3:40 pm

    Based on comments on this and the last update, it appears things are more or less as I’d expected from reading PayPal’s information about recurring payments. This is information that is and was accessible to anyone who bothered to check, and I posted in in comments on at least two, if not three past updates; it shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone reading this blog. Further, I can confirm from my own setup that a credit card is not required; I have a checking account and the debit card for that checking in place of a credit card, and my PayPal worked fine when I subscribed last night.

    Bottom line is this: for this to work, There has to be able to accept payments at a reasonable cost, and for that to happen, they have to have the means outlined above to limit chargebacks (payment processors’ method in this regard seem to be mainly a method of punishing the victim, since the merchant’s loss *starts* with the monetary amount in dispute when there’s a chargeback, then they add additional fees and “bad marks” that drive up future processing rates or result in cancellation of processing services, and then they more or less force practices that cause problems for would-be honest customers). I’ll be most disappointed if fraud perpetrated against There before closing comes back and bites us by (indirectly, via payment processing requirements) locking enough people out that the service can’t be operated at a profit.

    Meantime, don’t forget that even though you have to have the appropriate links on you PayPal to set up a recurring payment, if you have a PayPal balance sufficient to pay the charge when it processes, it won’t touch you credit card or bank account. My solution is to put $10 from each (bi-weekly) pay into PayPal; that’ll ensure I always have enough to pay my subscription, and leave me $10 a month or so for T-bucks (I’m already commited to 12000T per month for rent and PAZ reloads, but that’ll give me 6000T or so a month ahead).

    Verifying a PayPal account is easy; linking a credit or checking account is easy; following PayPal’s rules and general good sense is fairly easy — as long as you don’t just live in a country not served by PayPal, this isn’t going to be impossible, and if you can trust a bank with your paycheck every payday, you ought to be able to trust PayPal with a few bucks a month.

  77. #214 by William on 2011.12.16 - 3:19 pm

    all the photos in auctions are blank with little red ‘x’ s in them – if I click to open it there’s a photo but the main list doesn’t have them – anyone know what to do? Thanks in advance for any help …

    • #215 by freecreed on 2011.12.16 - 7:13 pm

      you have to use the search feature .. .. say you search decks .. all will show … this isn’t the preferred fix but is a work around … that is happening to many and is up to THERE to fix it ..

    • #216 by Greenie on 2011.12.16 - 8:32 pm

      Hi William, I use the Advanced Auctions Search feature found in the left margin of the main Auctions page. http://webapps.prod.there.com/items/search_adv.xml
      Type in a search term in the provided space and you will be directed to a page where you can see the auction catalog images.
      If you want to see everything currently in auctions, even completed auctions, just type in *** .
      I hope that helps.

    • #217 by William on 2011.12.17 - 3:48 am

      ah excellent! thank you!

  78. #218 by Raymond Scheffer on 2011.12.16 - 2:22 pm

    My Paypal account is verified, 100% sure, but it says that “Makena requires a direct payment” and I need to link a credit card, can you please give some info on why I can’t use my Paypal?

    Greetings, Nitroray

    • #219 by Raymond Scheffer on 2011.12.16 - 2:25 pm

      I hope someday you will allow iDeal, which is the most direct payment there is.

    • #220 by Sleestak on 2011.12.16 - 7:38 pm

      mine did that too, turns i needed to update my address in paypal to match my new address for my credit card since i recently moved.

    • #221 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.17 - 7:47 am

      This is a PayPal requirement specific to recurring payments (like There subscription). PayPal’s online documentation states that an account must have a linked credit card in order to permit subscription type recurring payments (I presume this is to avoid PayPal being stuck holding the bag, as it were, by paying out to a merchant and then being unable to collect because an account has been abandoned or otherwise has no balance). My experience is that a debit card linked to a checking account (or a checking account in itself, I’m not certain which) works fine; most likely anything with Visa or Mastercard affiliation that doesn’t block certain kinds of transactions (the way Green Dot cards do, for instance — Green Dot being an American prepaid card network) will do the job. Payment will also be paid first from PayPal balance, if you have it, so you can avoid the charges going through to your checking or card by keeping enough in your PayPal to cover the payments.

    • #222 by Roxannie on 2011.12.17 - 9:18 am

      have money in your paypal account a head of time, then you can make direct payment

  79. #223 by Merry Prankster on 2011.12.16 - 2:12 pm

    Avatar: Merry_Prankster … There accepted my $5 PayPal purchase of TBux. When attempting to aocure a monthly subscription, I get the message:

    “The seller will only ship to confirmed addresses. To complete this transaction, you will need to enter your information again.”

    The acceptance of my PayPal purchase of TBux is proof of a confirmed address. I have used my PayPal with There since March of 2007 to make purchases of TBux, to pay designer submission fees, etc. There has no “Help” system in place that I have found. I understand the need and your explanation of ‘why?’ There is using PayPal.

    As always, I appreciate the effort and time you take to post these updates … I hope to be in There soon … Thanks MW.

    • #224 by Merry Prankster on 2011.12.17 - 12:00 am

      For those of you having the same problem I was having, I believe I have a solution which may help some. After some serious digging in my PayPal account. It appears that the same address from two different payment sources acted to cancel each other out.

      To resolve this (no thanks to PayPal), I went into my profile and checked my billing address. The same address was listed there twice. One was listed as the “HOME” (default) address, while the other one said; “Verified”. PayPal was responding to There.com subscription payment requests with the “HOME” billing address. There was a ‘phrase link’ that said: “Make This Address Home”, under the verified address. After doing that, my subscription problem of the seller only shipping to verified addresses was fixed.

      I hope this helps any of those with the same problem.

      Thanks again MW for all the good work.

  80. #225 by Soosi on 2011.12.16 - 1:13 pm

    I am not going to be able to subscribe. Not just because of PayPal but because I’m too poor and when I turn 65 in a couple of months my income is going down even more. I’m going to transfer everything to one of the other members of my group but I’m wondering if there’s any way to transfer our neighbourhood now or do I have to wait until you bring them back in world? If we have to wait will there be any way I can transfer it without a subscription? Thanks.

    • #226 by Avatar 66 on 2011.12.16 - 8:03 pm

      Crying poorhouse for a measily 10 dollars isn’t going to do anything for you. If you are on a fixed income you can afford it. Drop your lousy cable bill. Stop buying brand name groceries and buy some generic. Baby sit your neighbors little girl for 2 hours at 5 dollars an hour. And if you wanted your items transferred why didn’t you do it a week ago when you could have got in for free? If you like there you can pay the 10 bucks. That is hardly something to cry poorhouse about. Go mow a lawn or pull some weeds for an hour. Come on don’t be silly Soosi. Try a little harder please.

      • #227 by Kayleigh Lace on 2011.12.17 - 1:50 am

        Aren’t you being completely and unneccesarily nasty to Soosi. Why did you reply to her post? She wasn’t crying or whining – does it make you feel better to be nasty to other people?

    • #228 by Soosi on 2011.12.17 - 3:24 am

      First off, Avatar, why do you have to be so rude? I was asking a question about transferring our neighbourhood, I wasn’t asking for a handout.

      I am almost 65, have a chronic and potentially terminal illness, am often housebound and unable to work. I am on a fixed income that will be reduced when I turn 65. I don’t buy brand names, I don’t have cable. I couldn’t mow a lawn if my life depended on it. I have no way of supplementing my income. What would you like me to give up so I could pay the $10 for There? My medication? The one luxury I allow myself is Internet and that’s often a stretch even though I share it. I wasn’t able last week or the week before to transfer everything because I was too ill to sit at my computer for any longer than to check my email. I’m so glad you have your health and don’t have to worry about a measly $10. Not everyone is as lucky as you.

      • #229 by Roxannie on 2011.12.17 - 9:23 am

        make a paypal account and add me on facebook, Roxannie Robin Greenfield and i will put $15 a month in the paypal for you, i know what you are going through, i am now in remission from MD and going back to college, i would love to make sure you are in there.com as often as you like, let me be this my christmas gift to you please, just add me on facebook and we can talk in private ๐Ÿ™‚ have a great holiday season Soosi

      • #230 by Roxannie on 2011.12.17 - 9:30 am

        let this be my christmas gift to you please** (really goofed that sentence up)

      • #231 by Avatar 66 on 2011.12.17 - 9:50 am

        A thousand apologies. You both are thinking in a negative way. I just said for you to try a little harder. But I guess you can’t do it. How about let your daughter give you 50 dollars in cash for Christmas that is 5 months of There? Then on your birthday 20 dollars there is 7 months. At any rate where there is a will there is a way. But I guess you don’t have the will to try harder and it just isn’t worth it for you. Luckily you can still afford the internet and you can still play farmville or other games on Facebook Hey I can cry poorhouse too. I can’t afford a smartphone right now for 50 dollars a month. Sure I could do it but then I couldn’t buy that antique record on ebay that I have always wanted or afford a couple other things. It boils down to our priorities. If you love There with a passion then that will be on the top of your list. Luckily 10 dollars isn’t really that much money. If you really enjoy There you should find the 10 dollars because it is your entertainment dollar spent wisely. I am sure you will find a way. Sell a couple things on ebay also. That can make you some money.

      • #232 by DreamingGirl on 2011.12.17 - 12:00 pm

        Avatar, consider yourself lucky you don’t know what it is like to have 10$ be a big deal. Believe me, if you have to choose between spending those bucks on a subscription fee, or food for a week, it really isn’t a choice at all. And yes, 10$ IS a lot of money for many of us. Be glad you don’t know what that is like. And stop pretending you know anything about Soosi’s situation.

      • #233 by tmpgina on 2011.12.17 - 3:59 pm

        Avatar, do you have any idea what the word compassion means? Do you have any comprehension of what poor is? Do you know that $10 is a lot of money for many people these days? I was in There for a long time but have decided I’m not going back. I knew Soosi and you obviously didn’t. Where do you get this daughter bit? She has no kids. If she did, where do you get the nerve to assume they would be in a position to help? She doesn’t own anything anymore not even a cell phone. She has nothing to sell on e-bay or anywhere else. But you know what Avatar? If you went to Soosi with a problem she would do everything in her power to help you. She would never judge you or be rude and condescending to you. She would only show you love and kindness. You’ve certainly demonstrated here what kind of person you are and that is that you are not a very nice person at all.

      • #234 by Kayleigh Lace on 2011.12.18 - 3:20 am

        I think, Avatar, there’s not enough backpeddling in the world – and you are just making yourself look worse. A simple apology and you should probably leave this topic.

      • #235 by MaddMaxx on 2011.12.18 - 10:20 am

        Hi Roxannie , it’s really nice to see that there are really still a few very nice people in There.com , was so nice of you to offer to pay for Soosi’s acct so that she can enjoy time with her friends ๐Ÿ™‚
        I’m sure thats one Christmas gift she will never forget ๐Ÿ™‚

      • #236 by Soosi on 2011.12.20 - 3:09 pm

        Thank you everyone for your understanding and support.

        Roxannie, thank you so very much for your incredibly kind and generous offer – you are a gem! Unfortunately, for various and sundry reasons, including not having a credit card, I cannot open a PayPal account.

        If I can’t transfer all my stuff to other members than so be it. I am most concerned with our neighbourhood so hopefully we can come up with a solution when they bring them back in. My group has been in There since 2004 and have had our hood since 2007. So I am hoping that MW will have some way I can transfer the hood over to another senior member without too much hassle or expense.

        Wishing everyone Season’s Greetings, a Merry Christmas and hope for a happy, healthy and prosperous 2012!

      • #237 by jimony on 2011.12.22 - 11:51 pm

        Soosi and Roxannie; With Gift Subscriptions available now, not having your own PayPal account shouldn’t be a roadblock. Hope you can stay with us Soosi.

        Thank you, Makena Team, for getting the Gift Subscription up and running. Hopefully before long you will be able to adjust it so someone can choose how many months to gift without having to cancel a subscription to let the gifted avie or another benefactor takeover paying.

  81. #238 by Tassader on 2011.12.16 - 12:49 pm

    Paid my subs today. Great!! Paypal is not as bad as people put it. I would say just give it a try and you will see how easy it is.

    I was on for 5 hours tonight. Tried to rent a house but they are all reserved for previous owners. AGHHHH. No Problem, guess I’ll teleport back to my cool paz on North Aurora.

    Good night all

    • #239 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.17 - 7:58 am

      Yep, there’s a serious shortage of rentable houses on Caldera and Ootay. I found a mid-size cottage on Caldera, but it was the eighth or ninth one I tried to rent. If you really want a house, you might try Tyr; last time I looked, there were birdhouses and both sizes of the horned domes available there (Tyr housing was always a bit less popular than that on Caldera, the round layout is harder to decorate). Of course, you’d still have to teleport home; Tyr is almost as far from Caldera as Aurora is. Otherwise, you might check auctions to see if you can spot someone selling a house deed — that’s an alternative to them terminating their rental (though I wouldn’t pay more than a month’s rent for a deed unless it’s a very, very desirable location).

  82. #240 by grandpared on 2011.12.16 - 12:36 pm

    I’ve got a Paypal account but no credit card. upon trying to pay for my subscription to THERE, I;m being forced to open a credit card account to finish registering and opening my account in THERE. Since I already have a Paypal account it just aggravated me to be forced into opening an account for a credit card, then give full 16 digit cc account number, expiration date and 3 digit security code number off back of card. This to me makes no sense.

    • #241 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.17 - 7:59 am

      That’s a PayPal rule, not a There requirement — and it’s done, most likely, to prevent PayPal being caught by abandoned accounts with subscriptions already paid out. FWIW, the debit card linked to a checking account also appears to work.

  83. #242 by 0ne1 on 2011.12.16 - 12:34 pm

    I have been using PayPal since it was created. I have NEVER had problems. I honestly don’t know what the big deal is for some, except those who live in countries that PayPal doesn’t support.

  84. #243 by Bob Baxter on 2011.12.16 - 12:33 pm

    As we have seen so many times, Michael Wilson, has a good reason for what he does, and if we love his THERE world so much, we should accept his wisdom on how he runs it. I too had problems for quite a while getting my PayPal account to pay THERE, but with Samsyn’s relentless help, clear explanations, and correct analysis that it was PayPal’s problem and not THERE’s, I finally got someone at PayPal who was able to run me through a complicated menu to make my account “verified” as required for a confirmed address. Not all of the support people at PayPal know how to do that, but I finally found one who did, even though I could hardly understand her “English”! We have to be patient sometimes, and now that it is working so smoothly, I appreciate even paying my bills to THERE more than ever before! It’s great to be back in such a beautiful world again.

  85. #244 by Hugsie on 2011.12.16 - 12:20 pm

    Micheal, Can I turn off the automatic pay every month, keep my avatar in-world for the next 30 days? Then pay again for another month when I want to some time in the future? I really can’t afford to pay every month for an alt I don’t use as much. I fear if i turn off the autopay thing, you’ll just cancel my account.

    • #245 by Dan Samuel on 2011.12.16 - 10:47 pm

      Be warned (again – it’s on that page with the “Sign me up!” button, I mean) that if you cancel your subscription, it cancels it IMMEDIATELY, even if you had ‘time left on it’ and there are no refunds. So to get your money’s worth you should cancel at the end of your period.

      But if you follow that prescription, you could use the ‘skipping stone subscription strategy’ and play every other month (or whatever ๐Ÿ™‚ as you saw fit.

      But cancellations are IMMEDIATE and will block your login with that avatar until it re-subscribes.

      • #246 by Juli on 2011.12.17 - 8:37 am

        Ok sounds good cancel at the end of subscription but HOW do you cancel?
        Do you cancel through Paypal? or Do you cancel through There?

      • #247 by Dan Samuel on 2011.12.17 - 12:17 pm

        You cancel through PayPal in the ‘recurring payments’ section. Which I find somewhat hard to find, so I will find it right now and describe the process

        * using the browser of your choice, open up http://www.paypal.com and log in (your paypal login, not your There login)

        * in my case, that opens my ‘overview’ page

        * click ‘show all transactions’

        * find one with ‘recurring payment’ in the name

        * click on ‘details’

        * THAt page has a “My pre-approved payments” link, click that

        * look for one related to “Makena”, click on details

        * low and behold, a tiny little link for ‘cancel’

        So simple! A child could do it! A child with a lot of patience and clear vision.

        So, who knows a faster way? A faster way to get directly to “my approved payments”? It seems that “My Account” tab menu at the top of the page would be a GREAT place to stick a direct link.


        Here’s another way:

        * visit paypal.com and login to your ‘overview’ page.
        * select “My Money” from the “Profile” menu (you might have to use ‘more options’ to see that)
        * That has a link to your ‘My recurring payments’ page

        That’s not too bad, except for the ‘more options’ part, and maybe I only see that because I am also a ‘vendor’ so I have a lot of options in that menu.

        Dang, why did I pay $100 to Network Solutions, anyway? That better not be what they charge for a domain name renewal!

      • #248 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 5:52 am

        Seems to me it’d be simpler to cancel through the There interface — except that There doesn’t seem to have provided an interface to cancel a subscription.

        Also, it seems to me Michael said something like “I need to be sure you can still log in until the end of the cycle” — which I now take to mean he had to check whether that was possible or your logins would be blocked as soon as you cancel. FWIW, this bears a resemblance to lots of “cancel any time” websites that encourage you to wait until the last minute to cancel, in hopes you’ll miss the cutoff and wind up paying for another month (which you then won’t even use because you’ll cancel in disgust and get cut off); it’s a fine tactic for extracting an extra $10 from someone you don’t care to ever see again, but seems not so friendly to those parting amiably due to lack of funds and hoping to return. IMO, it’s a bad business practice, especially if there isn’t significant cost (above the already-earned subscription amount) in carrying the subscription until cycle date.

      • #249 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.12.19 - 7:24 am

        I have an idea Dan or MW since finding the cancel link seems complicated and ppl are complaining you should have a cancel option. Why not link on There Central to PayPal’s page that has the cancel button(hopefully the url would be universal) and explain when they click that it’ll cancel immediately and everything.

  86. #250 by Joe_R203 on 2011.12.16 - 11:38 am

    Ok looks like I can’t get on There for awhile. PayPal is being stupid and not allowing me to edit my credit card info. Had some unauthorized charges on the card that PayPal has on file. The credit card company cancelled that account and gave me a new card/number. I need to change the info with PayPal but their site keeps giving me some error page. Perfect end to my screwed up week.

  87. #252 by pcdoctor on 2011.12.16 - 11:28 am

    With everyone having to pay now, is the login limit removed?

    • #253 by Dan Samuel on 2011.12.16 - 10:50 pm

      The login limit tracks with the number of servers (vs the number of people). When we add servers (as we just did) we boost the limit. With the general plan being to stay so far ahead of the load that the limit is never actually hit. But we need the limit itself to avoid black hole meltdowns (aka “Dr Phil Day”) ๐Ÿ™‚

      Today, for example, we didn’t get anywhere near the limit.

      • #254 by NathanAvis on 2011.12.18 - 4:52 pm

        Dr. Phil Day was an experience I will never forget. LOL

  88. #255 by IMAKOS on 2011.12.16 - 11:05 am

    Um MW,

    a Yea I don’t have a paypal account, I um Never Used one of those before, um um I really don’t Like them, um um.. you know I hate it… Like why? like Um like how come?

    OH and um Like you know like PAYPAL like sux’s yea?

    haha Happy Holidays Like oh yea and a Happy New Year too ….lol

    I love your timing on the Subscriptions , Please do not pick up my pazones until I return from My vacation… haha Thank you.

    Samsyn!! NOW you can say ” Mele Kalikimaka” hahaha and try this one ” me ka hau’oli makahiki hou” I’ll let you guess this one ( Ask MW for translation )

    Season Greetings to all…

    IMAKOS ( Leilani )

  89. #256 by Mr_Perry on 2011.12.16 - 10:47 am

    can someone email me when I am allowed in.
    tired of clicking the sign-in button

    • #257 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.16 - 3:44 pm

      Very unlikely to happen. If you’re getting “world closed” and it’s not between about 6:30 and 7:00 AM EST, subscriptions are off again and you’re locked out due to lack of beta privileges (likely due to silver or bronze fun pass). “World full” happens only when subscriptions are turned off and the login limit is back in effect. If you’re getting “you must subscribe”, you’ll be able to log in as soon as you set up the automatic subscription payments through PayPal. If you’re getting some other message, we’ll need more information to help you get logged in. In any of the above, no one is going to e-mail you (not least because only the comment moderators can even see your e-mail address).

  90. #258 by whitefeatherbeth on 2011.12.16 - 10:27 am

    I dont have any problems with using paypal… I think it is a great idea! Although my account says I am verified, it still required I verify thru THERE log in, and even though it did post on my bank statement but there was no “code” listed on my statement to enter on the paypal site… I tried 2 times entering what I assumed may have been the “code” but it didnt work. So I didnt attempt any further with entering a “code” since it said if it failed a third time it would lock me out. I sent an email to feedback@thereinc.com and will patiently wait until someone will respond. I just find it odd that although my paypal account is a verified one, this didnt work for me as yet. ๐Ÿ˜ฆ Good news though, I can still use my ThereIM until things gets resolved! Thanks to everyone who is working diligently to get world up and functioning!

    • #259 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.16 - 3:51 pm

      You’ll have to wait a few days (at least overnight, possibly as much as 3-4 business days) for the transaction to actually post through on your bank account before you’ll be able to see the “code” that PayPal wants you to enter. The change in your balance or “pending transaction” (depending how your bank shows this to you) aren’t sufficient.

      What may be happening is that, though your PayPal account is verified, you don’t meet some requirement relative to linked accounts; you can’t subscribe with an account that runs only on PayPal balance. Instead, you have to have a linked account (possibly only a checking is needed, though PayPal’s documentation seems to suggest you must have an active credit card — for which, if it’s required, a debit card linked to your checking appears to suffice).

      Meantime, we’ll keep patiently waiting for you to make it back into world — and I’ll check for you on ThereIM. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • #260 by whitefeatherbeth on 2011.12.17 - 6:49 am

        Well this morning at 4am my time I was able to figure out the code issue… and had issues with conflicting addresses on paypal… so having fixed that I was able to log in in the wee hours of the morning. Of course I didnt see anyone around lol. Now I am unable to log in at all 12/17 it is saying world is closed, even though the log in page says it is open… ๐Ÿ˜ฆ Patiently waiting again… hopefully its just being updated before the main opening?

      • #261 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 5:55 am

        Whitefeather, that was a problem (Bruce made a mistake in setting up after daily maintenance, and everyone was locked out for about six hours). I was able to get back in after about 2:15 PM EST, and everything has been going well since. I’ll look for you online!

  91. #262 by Cardo on 2011.12.16 - 10:24 am

    well i live in portugal and i dont own a VISA card or any of those, what can i do???

    • #263 by softNdark on 2011.12.16 - 3:54 pm

      BANK ACCOUNT……. SOME… PRE PAID CREDIT CARDS (if the company requires your home address be attached to your pre paid card)

      #20 by Philip Thereian Key on 2011.12.16 – 9:31 am

      I spoke to Paypal last night asking some questions that had come up in the Facebook groups. One main thing they said was it is Paypalโ€™s policy that to set up the recurring payment option that you are requiring for the member fee, you MUST have a valid credit card or bank account attached to your Paypal accoubt. That having things like just a moneypak, where you have to add funds befor you pay with Paypal, is not enough. They must have access to that CC or bank. She did say some pre paid credit cards will work as long as the company requires your hone address be attached to the pre paid card and they can access the info to verify.

      The other thig of note told to me, you must be 18 to have a Paypal accoubt and if they discover a member is underage the lock the account till the member is 18 and lock up all Credit Card or bank accounts attached to the account.

      • #264 by Andrew Almeida on 2011.12.19 - 7:18 am

        PayPal would not have authority to lock a credit card or a bank account attached to a PayPal account. They can only lock the PayPal account but the card and bank account would still work lol.

    • #265 by Lilia on 2012.01.24 - 2:20 pm

      I am from portugal and i can use all of my debit and credit cards from BES online. bank that does not like to have their debit cards used online is CGD and banif, you CAN get a prepaid card from BES easily assuming you are over 18.

  92. #266 by martin71a on 2011.12.16 - 9:56 am

    like me i used paypal for many things and i never had any problems with them at all its the best way to pay i think

    • #267 by marc on 2011.12.16 - 11:09 am

      Hi I think relevant as we will clarify the payments. knowing what receive monthly benefits to pay, because if we continue to pay monthly, some incentives should be granted, I think if everything goes as expensive and then there is no diversity in forms of payment, I see this in a bad way. I personally I have paypal account but to change my account information now brought me problems in my paypal. I am not convinced

  93. #268 by Andy on 2011.12.16 - 9:47 am

    I personally dont think you made a horrible choice at all. I have been using PayPal for many years with no issues at all although It sux to hear the stories coming from ppl who are having issues. Hang in there guys …

  94. #269 by LeeCarmen08 on 2011.12.16 - 9:45 am

    It’s worked absolutely fine for me. Paypal is just a really safe and easy way to go with things like this. I like it.

  95. #270 by cierdwyn on 2011.12.16 - 9:44 am

    I am one of those that has had no problems getting subscribed. I got logged right in after I did too, so am very happy with that. I don’t mind using PayPal, I’ve had an account for years, but I did prefer just using my credit card directly, as it was just quicker. Regardless I am very pleased to be back inworld .. thanks so much for all the hard work you’ve all put into getting this back up and running. ๐Ÿ™‚

  96. #271 by xSnoopy on 2011.12.16 - 9:44 am

    Worked fine for me .. first try, no complications. Could not have been simpler!
    For us senile, old farts, it was a complete no brainer ๐Ÿ™‚

  97. #272 by DreamingGirl on 2011.12.16 - 9:43 am

    I’m still having an issue that has been raised several times by several players without any solution:

    Whenever I try to upgrade the client, it fails with this errormessage:
    “Download Failed: Transfer Error: read 0 bytes, wrote 0 bytes in 0 loops, readErr: 12002, writeErr:0”
    Downloading the client from the main site gives the same errormessage.
    I might add that I only managed to get the first client installed because a friend of mine sent me a copy of her
    “setup.exe”, as the “get_there.exe” I downloaded always would fail to download the “setup.exe” properly.

    I also recall from the “old” days that I was never able to update a client via the automatic updates,
    I would always have to either grab the update manually OR reinstall the game completely -.-

    So, I cannot update the client, and I cannot download a new client from the main site.
    Any suggestions?

    • #273 by McKensy on 2011.12.16 - 11:56 am

      Not sure if the installer you have downloaded is the full or the pre-installer. Anyhow here’s a direct linke for the full installer:
      (hope that’s ok, Mr Wilson)

    • #274 by 0ne1 on 2011.12.16 - 12:32 pm

      Some firewalls and internet security programs don’t allow you to download .exe files. I would look into some 3rd party software not allowing you to download them, or have someone put the setup.exe in a .zip file.

    • #275 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.16 - 3:55 pm

      This sounds like a firewall or antivirus problem — can you try temporarily disabling those features while you download and install the most current client version? Once that’s complete, you’ll need to tell your software that “there.exe” is harmless and has permission to do things like connect to the internet, download updates, and so forth. Sorry, I can’t give more details, because the methods vary wildly from one antivirus and firewall to the next, and there are dozens of each out there.

    • #276 by dakotaman on 2011.12.16 - 3:56 pm

      My guess is that you have a corrupted windows installation. How old is the computer? All PC’s should be wiped clean after 1 or 2 years (after backing up your data), and a fresh copy of Windows installed. Result: Windows will not only run like it is new computer, but a lot of ongoing problems will disappear.

      Just my opinion, after working for years on clients’ machines with similar unknown problems. The fact that it (the install) is working fine for nearly everyone, should cue you that the problem lies in your machine/operating system.

      Good Luck!!


      • #277 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.17 - 8:47 am

        Oh, yes, the old “Windows can’t last” theory. Don’t forget, if you have an old version of Windows, this will remove all your updates newer than the CD you install from, and you may find (at some point) that you can’t get the updates you need to be able to use the software you had before wiping and reinstalling. At present, you can still get the Service Pack 3 update for Windows XP, but nothing else of consequence that came separately from that other than cumulative security udpates — another year or so, and if you can’t afford Windows 7 and a computer that will run it, the above advice will result in an installation that’s not capable of safe Internet browsing because it’s no longer supported even at the level now in effect.

        Wiping and reinstalling Windows should be a very, very last resort; pretty much any problem short of “won’t boot” can be fixed by actually tracing and correcting the individual error. My system was reinstalled three years ago (due to a motherboard failure, and Windows XP wouldn’t continue with that much new hardware), and still runs like a champ. Before that, it had been four years since I installed XP to replace Win98, and it still ran well. If you exercise a little care in what you install, and maintain your system, Windows XP and newer systems ought to run for much longer than one to two years (which will reduce your opportunities to forget to back up something important).

    • #278 by Dan Samuel on 2011.12.16 - 4:00 pm

      It sounds like you have a helpful security system on your PC which blocks the “GetThere” app from downloading files. PROBABLY you will need to root that out someday, as it sounds equally likely to block the There 3D client when *it* asks for files.

      Having said that, you should be able to fetch the full installer directly from this url:


      Grabbing patches manually is more problematic.

      Do you think you might have more luck if you downloaded the “GetThere” client but saved it to disk (as opposed to RUN when asked) then right-click on it and ‘run as admin’? Depending on how aggressive your security settings are, that might work.

    • #279 by Dan Samuel on 2011.12.16 - 4:02 pm

      Sorry if this is a double post, my first attempt failed (and didn’t leave me with a copy to re-paste)…

      So I will just mention that if pulling the full client directly would help you, the url is:


      But your problem is probably some security system helpfully blocking the GetThere application from downloading files.

      • #280 by Dan Samuel on 2011.12.16 - 4:02 pm

        And yes, I *did* manage to double post after all ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #281 by DreamingGirl on 2011.12.17 - 2:35 am

      I got the full client and it seems to work for now (can’t really be sure, world is closed atm)
      but I still don’t understand why I cant get the updates.

      To clarify a little: All the updates DOWNLOADS just fine, but when it gets to 100% it just sits there
      doing nothing until I eventually get the aforementioned errormessage.
      It is not my AV or firewall, that was the first thing I checked, and all There files are set to ‘allow’.
      My windows install is 6 months old so that’s not the problem either.
      It seems like the installers downloads without a problem, but then for some reason it fails to create the correct file.

      Thanks for all the suggestions and the direct download links, I’ll just have to reinstall for every update
      until I find a better solution ๐Ÿ™‚

      • #282 by Greenie on 2011.12.17 - 7:47 am

        Hi DreamingGirl,

        I had the same failure to install until I selected “RUN” rather than save and then initiate the install .exe.

        Choosing “RUN” has been working for me. I hope it helps you.

      • #283 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.17 - 8:55 am

        This is an old problem with the updates, and yes, as I recall, it *is* an AV or firewall problem. You’ll most likely need to disable one or both every time you get an update fetch (cancel the update, disable the offending security software, fetch and install the update, then reenable the security — possibly with one or more restarts inserted as needed). The problem is that even though you have “allow” for all There files, the files you download aren’t yet on the list (and they change the names every update, it seems, so they can’t be until you actually fetch the updates).

        I don’t recommend this for everyone, but my own solution is to make sure the firewall in my router is enabled and working, then disable or uninstall all firewall and AV software resident on my PC. I’ve been at this longer than almost everyone now producing viruses and trojans; I’ve seen everything come along and avoided it all, I’m suspicious by nature, and I run a low-vulnerability system (i.e. don’t use the commonest and least protected browser, e-mail, and so forth) — and in seven years since getting a router, the only virus I’ve seen inside my network was one downloaded and manually installed (i.e. a trojan), overriding in-place AV and firewall, by another user on her own computer (Pretty Park, if I recall correctly). The big upside to this, of course, is that I don’t ever have problems installing software…

  98. #284 by Cwby4ever on 2011.12.16 - 9:41 am

    I have been using Pay Pal for many years with no problems, the phone call and the code pretty much narrows it down to where you are and its really you. Pay Pal is the best way to go for me. Thank you MW.

  99. #285 by Christy Clendenen on 2011.12.16 - 9:41 am

    I had my Paypal breakdown last night LOL I have a very old account and now that I moved to Canada and have bank accounts in both countries things were not working for me last night when I got the same message as others about verifying the addy on the CC you had on your pay pal account. I couldn’t remember, I mean that was 2 address and one country ago! So I went to bed mad, then got up and the light bulb went off over my head…. I started a brand new Pay Pal account, out of Canada, with my Canadian accounts and Voila’ all set!!!! I was amazed at how easy it was to set up a new account! And I feel all clean and stuff and organized : ) And am now a paying member of There.com ‘yay

    • #286 by IMAKOS on 2011.12.16 - 11:08 am

      WTG !!!! you rock-a- doodles lady !!! “”patch

  100. #287 by Kevin Brunner on 2011.12.16 - 9:39 am

    Great news! Way to go MW and team pheonix. Jade57 is in and paid. It worked swimingly. My wife says it is awsome to be back! Just one thing. I can’t get yet with kev_bo. My paypal is primed and ready to go but it still won’t let silvers in. Hope you turn that on soon. I have money to send your way…lol.

    • #288 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.16 - 3:57 pm

      Kevin, access for silvers has been coming and going while Makena works on getting everything just right with subscriptions. If you can catch things when subscriptions are “up”, or wait until they stay up rather than going up and down for debugging, you shouldn’t have any problem getting your silver pass avatar into the world — but he’ll get kicked out and see “world closed” messages any time the subscriptions have to be turned off to chase an issue.

      • #289 by Kevin Brunner on 2011.12.17 - 8:26 pm

        Thanx Image for explaining why Jade could see other silver passes in world the other night while mine kept getting “world closed”. I figured it was just my luck, (or lack of it..lol!) But I did manage to get my subscription later last evening and was in world for several hours right after. Was awsome to be back home. Found very few problems all though it seemed the buddy list would only come up in certain parts of the world depending on where we teleported to. And the first time I went to Zona I was all by myself even though Jade was in what seemed to look like a different Zona on her netbook from the one I was in on my PC at the same time. Like there was different Zona’s?!! Kinda like the “Twilight Zone”. Ha ha.

      • #290 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 6:01 am

        Well, there is Zona, and Fisher, and Paiz (oh, my!); they all look superficially similar, scattered around the south and east coast of Caldera, and people seem to get randomly distributed between them when they use the teleport link from the Welcome Walkway blimp (originally, I think that was to keep any one from getting too crowded — potentially giving new members a bad experience with lag and blockheads).

      • #291 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 6:02 am

        Oh, and I find it very difficult to tell a silver pass from a platinum; I suspect those were platinum passes she was seeing. I will say, however, that I saw a *blue* funpass in world the other day; apparently, she was freshly subscribed and hadn’t yet been upgraded to bronze.

  101. #292 by Kayleigh Lace on 2011.12.16 - 9:36 am

    The little girl in the picture is darling. ๐Ÿ™‚

  102. #293 by sn3aky on 2011.12.16 - 9:33 am


    Thank your for the update – hopefully this clears some issues and information up for all those who are having troubles soaking it in.

    I would like to clarify something for everyone as well, as of now my impression on being able to subscribe and start paying the monthly rate is only for gold and above fun pass rated members.

    Is this correct? If not would you mind please clearing up my statement.

    Thank you,

    Kind Regards,

    Sgt. Zykan

    • #294 by cierdwyn on 2011.12.16 - 9:56 am

      Yes, I have a friend who is Silver funpass .. he got subscribed just fine, and was able to go inworld for several hours, he left but has not been able to get back in since. Hope that’s sorted soon!

    • #295 by Philip Thereian Key on 2011.12.16 - 9:57 am

      Yes it is still only open to gold and platinum. He cleared that up in our There groups in Facebook. This is not the full open yet still another part of the testing process. Bellow is his comment from The Thereian Community

      Michael Wilson

      Subscriptions are back on again. This is another “test”. We’ll let some folks subscribe, look at the results, and if we’re happy, turn it back on again.

      NO, the Great PAZ Pickup of 2011 will not start today.

      NO, New members will not be able to register.

      YES, if all goes well, we’ll life the Platinum/Gold Funpass restriction AFTER we turn subscriptions on for good.

      • #296 by danger916 on 2011.12.17 - 6:16 am

        I think this just happened to me, but I was totally unaware that I would not be allowed back in after I paid for the subscription. Shouldn’t the people that paid for the subscription now be part of the “test” and allowed in?

  103. #297 by Philip Thereian Key on 2011.12.16 - 9:31 am

    I spoke to Paypal last night asking some questions that had come up in the Facebook groups. One main thing they said was it is Paypal’s policy that to set up the recurring payment option that you are requiring for the member fee, you MUST have a valid credit card or bank account attached to your Paypal accoubt. That having things like just a moneypak, where you have to add funds befor you pay with Paypal, is not enough. They must have access to that CC or bank. She did say some pre paid credit cards will work as long as the company requires your hone address be attached to the pre paid card and they can access the info to verify.

    The other thig of note told to me, you must be 18 to have a Paypal accoubt and if they discover a member is underage the lock the account till the member is 18 and lock up all Credit Card or bank accounts attached to the account.

    • #298 by Hugsie on 2011.12.16 - 12:27 pm

      Actually they demand a credit card or a debit card. I already have my checking account assigned to my paypal account and it STILL nagged me for put a credit card on my account. In fact i already HAD money sitting on my account in anticipation to pay for there.com yet still wanted a credit card.

      I didn’t know paypal had age requirements, after all you don’t have to be 18 to have a bank account. Banks nor any other bank-like institution is in the business of knowing how old you are. So just like anywhere else, an underage person has to be REPORTED to be dealt with.. it’s not like they just magically already know.

      • #299 by Philip Thereian Key on 2011.12.17 - 1:42 pm

        In fact they do know and the member is reported by their own CC or bank. When you go through the verifaction process it give Paypal your actual date of birth. Any time you have a CC or bank account info such as hour home addreas phone and DOB are all accessable as variation to other finatial institutions such as Paypal. So when you’re verified and they see you are underage your account is locked.

        Also having a balance has nothing to do with it. You must have a form of payment they can access ans draw funds from when and if you don’t have money in your account for the recurring payment program. And a bank account is all that is needed. They have had some strange issues with There requiring Paypal accounts to.be verified. You don’t have to be verified to set up a monthly payment normally but There is requiring it. As another step to ensure members are over 18 since the process verifies age with Paypal.

      • #300 by ImageMaker on 2011.12.18 - 6:07 am

        Philip, that’s the best information we’ve had yet on what will and won’t work with PayPal. Michael and Samsyn have stated previously that they’re requiring Verified accounts at PayPal’s suggestion in order to control chargebacks (too many of those could sink the ship at this point); I guess getting PayPal to handle age verification is a nice extra (though it doesn’t cover having payment processed by a friend or relative, it’s a start). Worth noting that, even though PayPal requires a payment method in order to allow subscription payments, they will still pay from PayPal balance first unless you change your subscription preferences through PayPal’s recurring payment interface. For those of us on “edge of overdraft” budgets, that means keeping a few dollars in PayPal at all times can greatly ease our nerves.

  104. #301 by Punkster OfThere on 2011.12.16 - 9:20 am

    Makes a lot of sense and totally understandable! It is better for all of us all the way around. Thanks for the sharing.


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